First Investment Property Out of State - "Hybrid Turnkey"

First Investment Property Out of State - "Hybrid Turnkey"

Investor · Peoria, AZ · Member since 2016 · 114 posts · 163 votes

Investment Info:

Single-family residence buy & hold investment in Kansas City.

Purchase price: $119,360
Cash invested: $30,000

3/1 property we bought from a turnkey provider found on another Real Estate Podcast. This turnkey provider offered traditional turnkeys properties or what he called "hybrid turnkey properties." We chose the latter which meant that we purchased the distressed property for from him for $95,000 and then spent about $25,000 rehabbing the property through him as well. The quality of rehab was sub par and we've have significant repairs/maintenance in the first 15 months.

What made you interested in investing in this type of deal?

I had been listening to Bigger Pockets and other numerous podcasts for a number of years. After completing the Baby Steps by Dave Ramsey, my wife and I were ready to start investing. Since we live in Phoenix, AZ, we had difficulties finding properties that would meet are target metrics, but we were scared to do BRRRR or flips out of state for our first deal.

How did you find this deal and how did you negotiate it?

I heard a turnkey operator on another Real Estate Investing podcast, and he was very animated and high energy. We connected with him shortly after the podcast , connected with a few referrals he provided, and decided on one of the many properties he had available. Since he presented this as a "hybrid turnkey" we thought we were getting a great deal because we would purchase the house, then pay for the rehab which would be completed by his company, and than move to his prop. management team.

How did you finance this deal?

We funded the purchase and rehab from a HELOC on our primary residence.

How did you add value to the deal?

We thought we were adding value by using the "hybrid turnkey strategy," but we later found out that our appraised value was far less than the ARV he provided in the provider's numbers. This was our first lesson about ARV inflation from turnkey providers and wholesalers.

What was the outcome?

As it stands today, we are cash flowing most months, and over the past 15 months, we've realized about $1100 of actual positive cash flow. We moved the property to another property manager due to a negative experience withe the turnkey provider. On a positive note, our home has appreciated by about $12,000 and we saved about $2500 in taxes in our first year of ownership.

In hindsight, we wouldn't change a thing because this deal got us off of the couch and got us into the game.

Lessons learned? Challenges?

-Always have an inspection completed by a third party before completion of every transaction
-Check for comps in the area through a third party and compare to the ARV that is provided by the turnkey provider
-Check ratings and reviews of turnkey property managers before moving forward
-Turnkey providers can be a great option for first time investors but due diligence should be a priority

Did you work with any real estate professionals (agents, lenders, etc.) that you'd recommend to others?

We were able to find some great partners in insurance through NREIG and lending with Movement Mortgage. Both companies have been able to work with us on multiple properties in multiple states.

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Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y

@Geoff Husa have you considered buying property as a Vacation Rental? You would more than cashflow and could have more control over it when you use it. Just block your calendar whenever you plan to visit or pause your listing when on furlough for a year. I know a good handful of ppl, myself included, who manage remotely. Provided PNG has internet you could do the same. DM me if you want to discuss. I have no angle and nothing to sell.

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  • Member since 2020 · 43 posts · 22 votes
    6y

    Hi Randy,

    Thanks for sharing your story. I'm currently learning about real estate investing. I'm happily engaged and we purchased our first house together. My Fiance does not want to "house-hack", so that option is out; however, I was looking into a HELOC.

    Let's assume my house has $100,000 in equity. With a LTV of 75%, the bank would let me borrow $75,000, is this correct?

    I'm trying to figure out what is the best route to fund my first project. 

    Thanks,

    Adam.

  • Rental Property Investor · Tempe, AZ · Member since 2020 · 75 posts · 39 votes
    6y

    Hey @Randy Smith, greetings from another Phoenician! Curious what was behind the decision to invest out of state? Looking at investing in Phoenix area ourselves, in the East Valley. But curious what other investors think of the area from an investor's standpoint. We'd be looking at buy and hold, and eventually moving to BRRRR when we can get enough capital to put more of our own cash (or even hard money loan) into a cash deal. Anyway would love to hear why it seems you're not investing right there in Phoenix. Anything to help me understand what mindset and strategy would be best in the area.

    My guess, as I've begun looking into it myself is maybe because the market there is a little bit expensive, and so cash flow is a little lower, and one is hoping/depending more on appreciation. But I also know Phoenix is fairly active with flippers and other investors too so maybe I'm missing something?

  • Investor · Peoria, AZ · Member since 2016 · 114 posts · 163 votes
    6y

    @Adam Eckhoff

    Congratulations on your engagement and your home purchase!  You're well on your way to achieving financial freedom through real estate investing.

    In regards to the HELOC, your math is close, but it is missing one critical item. You will also need to factor in your existing mortgage as well so you won't be able to get 75% of your equity. Instead, you'll be able to get 75% of your home value less your mortgage balance. So, if your house can be appraised at $300,000 and you only owe $200,000 on it, you would be able to pull out $25,000 ($300,000 * .75 - $200,000).

    I've seen HELOCs that offer up to 90% LTV, and I've heard some people reference 100% LTV loans as well. In my situation, we did a HELOC for 80% LTV through a regional bank, and they only required a "drive by" appraisal. We had no fees to set this up, and we were able to get 2.9% interest only on the loan. Shop around until you find one with good terms as many banks are tightening the belts on these now due to COVID.

    Good luck and keep us posted!

  • Investor · Peoria, AZ · Member since 2016 · 114 posts · 163 votes
    6y

    Hi @Geoff Husa,

    My wife and I shopped around the Phoenix area for quite some time to find buy and hold properties, and we were not able to make the numbers work on anything locally.

    The short answer on why I invest in Atlanta instead of Phoenix is cash flow.  Specifically, rent to price ratio.  Atlanta provides the 1% rule whereas Phoenix does not.

    The longer answer is provided through an example, in my neighborhood, a 4/2 with about 1700 sq. ft will sell for about $300,000, and you could only get about $1500 in rent for this house.  If you put 25% down, you'll be losing over $200 per month in cash flow each month if you factor in repairs, maintenance, property management, vacancy and capex.

    If I took that same $75,000 I used in the down payment listed above, I could buy three, $100,000 houses in Atlanta that generate about $600/month in cash flow which is close to $800/month difference in my pocket each month.

    This is a really great question though, and one that you will need to determine yourself.  If you are looking for appreciation, you'll do better in Phoenix, but if you are looking for cash flow, you'll find better results elsewhere.  

    Hopefully this is helpful, and feel free to correct any assumptions I might have included in error.

  • Rental Property Investor · Tempe, AZ · Member since 2020 · 75 posts · 39 votes
    6y

    @Randy Smith thanks for the input! Yeah as we do property analyses on things our realtor is sending on the MLS we're seeing that it's hard to make the numbers work without making extreme lowball offers. Our situation has us needing a primary residence for a year (we a missionaries in Papua New Guinea and are only home for a year or so every few years) in the Phoenix metro area. So this first house we're looking at has that constraint. So what our plan will be after that (or maybe we should rent for the year home, and invest our REI capital elsewhere?) is up in the air and we're still trying to determine what will be best for us and our situation living overseas and only being home intermittently. The plus side is that since I was born and raised in the area I'm more comfortable with what's where and who's who. So the thought of investing somewhere else, trying to find the right peeps for the various helps needed like contracting, property management, plumbing, elec, etc is kind of scary.

    So anyway, it looks like a bit of a slow start for us, unless as we learn about more options and methods we can move things a little quicker. Anyway, it's good to connect with you! Appreciate your insight!

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Geoff Husa have you considered buying property as a Vacation Rental? You would more than cashflow and could have more control over it when you use it. Just block your calendar whenever you plan to visit or pause your listing when on furlough for a year. I know a good handful of ppl, myself included, who manage remotely. Provided PNG has internet you could do the same. DM me if you want to discuss. I have no angle and nothing to sell.

  • Rental Property Investor · Tempe, AZ · Member since 2020 · 75 posts · 39 votes
    6y

    @Brian G. I've heard that vacation rentals are pretty hot in the Phoenix metro area. I have a friend who invests that way there. An investing realtor friend also mentioned the possibility. Will have to read up on that and get some insights into how that works and whether it would be a good fit for us. Will DM you with some questions as I have them. Thanks!

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Geoff Husa you got it. We just launched our first str recently and no regrets! A little more work but very manageable if one/both of you can respond to a question/need from your guests in a reasonable time, etc.

  • Rental Property Investor · Tempe, AZ · Member since 2020 · 75 posts · 39 votes
    6y

    @Brian G. how is your cash flow affected by COVID for your str properties? I guess as I consider that route, one concern that comes to mind is the seasonal fluctuations as well as other big factors that can affect the travel industry, compared to long term rentals. Any thoughts on that?

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Geoff Husa sure, let's talk. Easier than having a conversation here. DM me and we can schedule a call. Happy to share my thoughts and answer any questions you might have. Or start a post with your question on the STR forum and I'm sure you will have people weighing in.

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