Negotiating Tactics on a Duplex, 1st Deal

Negotiating Tactics on a Duplex, 1st Deal

Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2016 · 53 posts · 12 votes

Hi BP universe! Negotiating what will be my 1st deal as a seller/investor, the property in question is a duplex in a fast-growing, popular rural river town with lots of city commuters. Negotiations have taken a bit of a strange turn and I'd love some advice from any experienced BP members. Here's the deal; will try to keep this short.

Seller's ask was $350K which we and our agent thought was pretty high, there's a lack of comps in the area but we put it more in the $320 - $340 range. We gave a low offer of $310, seller countered at $345, we countered by coming up $15K to $325. They held firm at $345 and we walked away. 24 hrs later our agent got a text from theirs saying they'd like to know what our absolute highest offer would be. She added that maybe there could be a way for us all to "meet in the middle" but that was her idea (the listing agent's) and not her client's words. On the one hand we're happy to hear that it seems like they might be willing to negotiate again but on the other hand we don't really like the way they're trying to frame the conversation by asking us to give them our highest number without getting a counter to our most recent offer. 

The most I'd be "happy" to pay is $335 but my target # is $330. At $340 the numbers would still work out in the mid-term, profits would be very slim until we can vacate both units and remodel to significantly raise the rents to the top end of the market. Also we don't think the property is worth $340 based on what we've seen from the comps. Here's what we're considering...

Option 1.

We respond to their agent's idea of meeting in the middle by saying the ask was $350 and our 1st offer was $310, the middle between those two numbers is $330 and we'd be ok with that number if she thinks she could get the seller to agree to it. 

Option 2.

Screw it. Even though we think it's a crappy way for them to negotiate we just say that $335 is our highest offer and see if they take it. If they do, ok, it's not $330 but we'll get the property at a price we're ok paying. If they won't take $335, then maybe we go for $340 and hope the appraisal comes in low. If it doesn't we won't be ruined, just very low profits until we get both units renovated and the rents up.

Option 3.

We tell them that something along the lines of, "We've given two solid offers and our last one was 15K above our first. We'd be happy to hear a counter to our last offer of $325 and if they want to give us the absolute lowest price they'd be willing to sell for then we'd be happy to consider it." I.E. we don't give them a number at all but rather flip the conversation to try and get them to submit a counter and maybe find out what their lowest # is.

What do you think? 

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Investor · New Haven, CT · Member since 2012 · 285 posts · 175 votes
10y
Go with option 3. Don't bid against yourself. But seriously what is the difference in your cash flow if you go to 340 vs 325k?
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  • Investor · New Haven, CT · Member since 2012 · 285 posts · 175 votes
    10y
    Go with option 3. Don't bid against yourself. But seriously what is the difference in your cash flow if you go to 340 vs 325k?
  • Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2016 · 53 posts · 12 votes
    10y

    Thanks @Shawn M., that's the option we're leaning toward, but didn't want to save my pride but lose the deal.

    Your question about the rents; with current tenants at a purchase of $340 we'd profit about $100/mo w/ ROI at 1.5%. After we fix up and raise rents to med/high end of market we'd profit about $420 at 6.25%.

    If we bought at $325 that would change to current rents $155/mo at 2.4% and after fix/raise $475 & 7.4%. 

  • Investor · La Vernia, TX · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 865 votes
    10y

    @Dan Barman

    Have you walked the property yet? Have you received and actual expense data?  This is a current rental property right?  Then it should be priced as such.  Based on current rent valuation.      The current owner/investor should understand your need as a rental property investor to be able to cash flow.  If your purchase and rehab cost cause you not to cash flow.  Then what's the point of continuing negotiations.

    Use your data analysis (or lack of actual data) to justify your offer.

  • Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2016 · 53 posts · 12 votes
    10y

    Hi @John Leavelle, thanks so much for your thoughts. I have walked the property with my realtor, took photos and video etc. Even had a chance to speak with the tenants, one of which told me a lot about the property including issues with a leaking pipe in the ceiling. 

    As far as expense data is concerned, we haven't done an inspection yet; not sure if it's the same in TX but here there are no disclosures and inspection happens after an offer has been accepted. I know some fixes will need to be done; new carpet & paint, new countertops, new oven/range, refinish cabinets etc. There's also that leaky pipe but other than that I won't know about any other problems unless we go through inspection. 

    When you say "priced based on current rent valuation", you're saying that the offer should reflect the price that tenants are currently paying rather than what we can get for the units once they're fixed up (accounting for rehab costs of course)? 

  • Investor · La Vernia, TX · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 865 votes
    10y

    @Dan Barman

    Yes, rental property value is based on current rates and condition for that property and not on comps. There is no guarantee of future increases. Why would you purchase a rental based on speculative value. You would use comps to validate your ARV not current rental property value. If your purchase price is too high it may causes negative cash flow. If it meets your cash flow goals, then, its a good price.

  • Investor · Richmond, BC · Member since 2013 · 316 posts · 133 votes
    10y

    A leaky pipe could be a huge HUGE problem. It could have caused mold and rot and everything that entails.  It could be a leaky roof, not pipe.  Unless you're sure you know the cause of water damage, youre not necessarily going to be doing the cosmetic upgrade that you think. You might need that difference between $325 - $340.

    It sounds like they need you more than you need them.  There's always another property as a buyer and it sounds like the other realtor is kinda screwing  you guys around. No?

    Good luck with everything 

  • Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    @Dan Barman, there is nothing wrong with a Realtor asking you for your "Best and Final" Offer (even if their client didn't request it). Conversely, you don't have to give it! Option 1! Then, it's STILL up to you if you "change your mind later" - especially seeing as how, even when you DO come to an agreed figure, it may all come tumbling down after your due diligence results.

    By the way, what makes you think the Seller MUST lower their agreed sale price if the appraisal comes in lower? I suggest: do NOT offer $240k in the "hope the appraisal comes in low"! Cheers...

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