Condo: 3 years arrears, owe $140k-bank, $14k HOA, worth $40k

Condo: 3 years arrears, owe $140k-bank, $14k HOA, worth $40k

Tucson, AZ · Member since 2013 · 55 posts · 9 votes

I had a potential client call and ask for help. They have a Condo they bought at the top of the market for $130k. The bubble burst, he lost his job, and now the condo is vacant. They haven't paid the bank or HOA in 3 years. As it sits, it's now worth 30k-40k. It needs carpet, paint, appliances, and some small drywall & tile repairs. I told him there wasn't much I could do because it's not really worth my time negotiating with the bank & HOA for what's certain to be little profit but I told him I'd think about it. I came up with this idea:

The bank isn't foreclosing yet. The HOA probably won't foreclose because then they would on the hook for the $140k they owe the bank in PI and arrears.

My idea is this: I lease it from him with the ability to sublet and I only pay him a percentage of my proceeds when the place is rented and only after my initial costs are recouped. All of his share of the proceeds will go directly to the HOA. I'll shine the place up and furnish it. ($2k-$3k) We list it as a vacation rental. I live in an area that gets a lot of tourism & winter visitors plus we have a couple events a year that book the hotels & vacation rentals solid. In the summer, I'm estimating we can get $500-$700 a month but in the winter, $1500-$2000 a month.

I would then be able to negotiate with the HOA to short their liens and when the bank files, we'll start short sale negotiations with them.

My position & experience: I rehabbed several houses before the crash and am currently rehabbing my REO my wife and I live in. I have little of my own capital and really need the cash flow so I can get away from my awful job. I've always been very good at putting together complex, creative deals both in real estate and other industries.

Tell me what I'm missing. Thanks!

Edit: The complex is not age restricted and allows rentals. 

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  • Lender · Ladera Ranch, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Tabor Tollefson

    The HOA is probably not foreclosing because it costs money to foreclose and they probably don't want to rehab it and rent it out themselves. If they did, they would've already foreclosed, rehabbed it, and started collecting rents to recoup HOA dues.

    What's in it for your client? If all his proceeds go to the HOA, what is his incentive for cooperating? I understand that paying the HOA right away is a good way to get their cooperation but it might be premature. Some HOA's will take less than what's owed, others will demand the entire amount. This will be one issue to deal with in your short sale scenario.

    Back HOA dues are owed by the homeowner of record during the time that the condo was owed. HOA's have a mechanism to recover HOA dues by foreclosing on a condo owner's unit. They are not obligated to do so and may go after a former owner for dues that are owed. It's up to the HOA and again, some will pursue previous owners and some won't.

    Another option for you to think about: instead of leasing it from your client and subletting it, what about just managing it for him? He puts out the money to rehab it. He gets his rehab money back first. You can split the proceeds however you want. Just a thought.

    Did your client tell you what he wants out of all this?

  • Real Estate Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 951 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Andy Mirza:

    @Tabor Tollefson

    Another option for you to think about: instead of leasing it from your client and subletting it, what about just managing it for him? He puts out the money to rehab it. He gets his rehab money back first. You can split the proceeds however you want. Just a thought.

    Good, more BP advice about practicing real estate without a license.  In order to be a property manager in every state I've ever looked at, you need to have a real estate license. This includes Arizona  Any act of collecting a fee for renting/managing a property you don't own is property management.

    http://www.re.state.az.us/Aud/AudFaqs.aspx#FAQ92

    Sometimes a property just isn't a deal.  If every foreclosure was a deal I could give you a list of a million deals tomorrow.

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    11y

    The HOA may, or may not, foreclose but they wouldn't "be on the hook" for any mortgage. Will the HOA allow vacation/short terms rentals? Most don't, even if they allow regular rentals.

  • Lender · Ladera Ranch, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Patrick L.:

    Another option for you to think about: instead of leasing it from your client and subletting it, what about just managing it for him? He puts out the money to rehab it. He gets his rehab money back first. You can split the proceeds however you want. Just a thought.

    Good, more BP advice about practicing real estate without a license.  

    Thanks for pointing this out. Your comment made me challenge my assumptions and to do some research.

    In California, it appears that you need to have a broker's license to own a property management company. It was confusing to me whether a salesperson's license was sufficient if you managed properties as an individual. I think you're ok as just a salesperson if you're working under a broker that supervises your activities. There are several exceptions to the licensing requirement but the situation presented by the OP wouldn't be one of them. And of course, that's according to CA law and not Arizona law or whatever state law applies to the OP's property.

    IMO, this was the best summary of property manager requirements in CA:  http://www.kts-law.com/documents/200862165051231.p...

    If the OP is considering management, he definitely needs to first check the applicable state laws. (Thanks again, Patrick. I learned something new today.) 

  • Mark B.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Morgan Hill, CA · Member since 2012 · 212 posts · 64 votes
    11y

    @Tabor Tollefson Not sure about AZ, but in CA you don't need to be licensed in real estate to manage a property if you are an employee of the owner. A bit more paperwork, but it keeps you and him legal.

    The advantage to the current owner is that the future liability will be smaller if he is making payments to the HOA. The 1st may not be foreclosing because they are hoping for a change in value.

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