Fourth Step in my Brandon Turner Stack!

Fourth Step in my Brandon Turner Stack!

Vince MathisPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2018 · 44 posts · 53 votes

Investment Info:

Large multi-family (5+ units) buy & hold investment.

Purchase price: $2,300,000
Cash invested: $200,000

Single Owner 1970's build, Class B, 20 unit apartment complex with garages, acquired with 80% Seller Financing @ 4.19%, amortized for 30 years with a balloon at 5 years. Brought in $200k in private money @ 14% Fixed, interest only.

Strategy: Long Term Buy & Hold. There is some room for modest improvements to the units which will increase rent approximately 10%, and some expense reductions to be realized.

What made you interested in investing in this type of deal?

This was our (my wife and me) fourth and largest purchase. Each year we have at least DOUBLED the number of units we acquire. We have great-paying W2 jobs, but would not be able to acquire the 16+ units for this year with traditional financing and our own capital.

How did you find this deal and how did you negotiate it?

I follow multiple MLS aggregation sites and local brokers and had seen this deal originally come up in 2022. The seller's asking price was a bit steep, originally posted at 2.7MM. As rates continued to climb over the last year, the deal sat on the market. I initially contacted the broker and asked if the seller was/would consider seller financing for the right offer. He stated that the seller would, so I submitted an initial Letter of Intent through my RE Attorney.

How did you finance this deal?

After some back and forth, we settled at 80% Seller Financed at 4.19% Interest. This is amortized at 30 years, with a balloon to seller at five years. In second position I brought in two local private money lenders. They are debt-only, no equity, and will receive 14% fixed interest, paid quarterly, until we refinance.

How did you add value to the deal?

I met the seller where he wanted to be.

With the interest he will receive through the seller-financing, he will get nearly his original asking price by the time we close the primary note in five years. Over the next three years, we will invest approximately $4-5k to update the units to modern expectations, and be able to see a healthy rise in rent and reduction of time to fill. There will also be cost-cutting efforts through reduction of water usage and connecting to central fire alarms.

What was the outcome?

We just closed one week ago, so hard to say, but so far everything is looking good!

Lessons learned? Challenges?

The seller-financing aspect was interesting. Learned of the IRS AFR for interest rates, as well as being able to shape the note and mortgage for the first time, instead of a bank directing everything. Also working with local, personal lenders has been awesome. The two I am working with are small business owners with differing levels of experience in real estate, but wanted somewhere stable, yet profitable to put their earned income.

Did you work with any real estate professionals (agents, lenders, etc.) that you'd recommend to others?

Tanner Anderson at Cutler Law Firm of Sioux Falls, SD represented me in this purchase. He had great communication and was open to my input while still guiding me within legal requirements and local market expectations.

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Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
2y

@Vince Mathis congrats! So the seller owned it free and clear?

See this reply in the discussion

11 Replies

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  • Alecia LovelessPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y

    @Vince Mathis Congratulations! You’re growing bigger faster than I have. I’ve got 25 doors now in just under 4 years and am expanding my networks and the region I’m investing in to try to source larger deals. I bought 13 doors in 2023, my goal in 25 in 2024.

    Keep up the great work! I’d love to see you post a 50 unit apartment complex soon.

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y

    @Vince Mathis congrats! So the seller owned it free and clear?

  • Vince MathisPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2018 · 44 posts · 53 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Brian G.:

    @Vince Mathis congrats! So the seller owned it free and clear?

    Yep!

    The seller's parents had it built in the 70's. He had actually grown up maintaining the property.
  • Vince MathisPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2018 · 44 posts · 53 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Alecia Loveless:

    @Vince Mathis Congratulations! You’re growing bigger faster than I have. I’ve got 25 doors now in just under 4 years and am expanding my networks and the region I’m investing in to try to source larger deals. I bought 13 doors in 2023, my goal in 25 in 2024.

    Keep up the great work! I’d love to see you post a 50 unit apartment complex soon.

    Thanks! And great work yourself! That's quite the stack. Good luck on the 25 units in 2024!
  • V.G JasonPro Member
    Investor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    The 4.19% sounds great, but did you overpay to achieve that? Also, 200k @ 14% quarterly for 5 years is devastating.  I get looks like this, and when I see deals like this I want to charge the 14% but realize I likely won't see it. 

    The cost cuttings reductions of water usage(particularly in AZ) and central fire arms don't seem like real value plays. 

    This looks like a Brandon Turner play, for sure, but I say that unfortunately. His way of looking at this is all wrong, and has been for 2023 forward. I wish you the best of luck, but this looks like you're going to bite off more than you can chew. You mention you have a great W2, that may be your savior. 

  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    2y

    Congrats.  How much are the current and estimated renovated rents (and what zip code)?

  • Vince MathisPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2018 · 44 posts · 53 votes
    2y
    Quote from @V.G Jason:

    The 4.19% sounds great, but did you overpay to achieve that? Also, 200k @ 14% quarterly for 5 years is devastating.  I get looks like this, and when I see deals like this I want to charge the 14% but realize I likely won't see it. 

    The cost cuttings reductions of water usage(particularly in AZ) and central fire arms don't seem like real value plays. 

    This looks like a Brandon Turner play, for sure, but I say that unfortunately. His way of looking at this is all wrong, and has been for 2023 forward. I wish you the best of luck, but this looks like you're going to bite off more than you can chew. You mention you have a great W2, that may be your savior. 

    I should have been more clear in my post but was limited in characters for some.

    The property is in Sioux Falls, SD. Had been being watered every day. Even during storms. The water reduction and alarm savings are secondary to the forced increase in rents.

    14% is APR, not quarterly, I expect to refinance at three years, not the full five.

    I ran my underwriting by multiple associates, including full time Asset Managers with over 14MM AUM and experienced RE syndicators. They had actually run a nearly identical offer by the seller, but seller wasn't ready at that time. I didn't provide gross rents or Cap Rate, so I'm not certain how you're coming to your conclusions.

    I view "The Stack" as more of a mindset framework than an operational plan, so I'm not certain why it wouldn't work at the moment.

    I appreciate the feedback. Always growing.
  • V.G JasonPro Member
    Investor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Vince Mathis:
    Quote from @V.G Jason:

    The 4.19% sounds great, but did you overpay to achieve that? Also, 200k @ 14% quarterly for 5 years is devastating.  I get looks like this, and when I see deals like this I want to charge the 14% but realize I likely won't see it. 

    The cost cuttings reductions of water usage(particularly in AZ) and central fire arms don't seem like real value plays. 

    This looks like a Brandon Turner play, for sure, but I say that unfortunately. His way of looking at this is all wrong, and has been for 2023 forward. I wish you the best of luck, but this looks like you're going to bite off more than you can chew. You mention you have a great W2, that may be your savior. 

    I should have been more clear in my post but was limited in characters for some.

    The property is in Sioux Falls, SD. Had been being watered every day. Even during storms. The water reduction and alarm savings are secondary to the forced increase in rents.

    14% is APR, not quarterly, I expect to refinance at three years, not the full five.

    I ran my underwriting by multiple associates, including full time Asset Managers with over 14MM AUM and experienced RE syndicators. They had actually run a nearly identical offer by the seller, but seller wasn't ready at that time. I didn't provide gross rents or Cap Rate, so I'm not certain how you're coming to your conclusions.

    I view "The Stack" as more of a mindset framework than an operational plan, so I'm not certain why it wouldn't work at the moment.

    I appreciate the feedback. Always growing.

    I am not aware of Sioux falls and the water conditions & alarm conditions, so I will not comment.

    It's really your ability to manage the 3-5 year tenor to re-fi, and the market closer to that time. A lot more unknown, that is why I am coming to that conclusion. I would have definitely negotiated a different balloon period or a deferral on it. I just don't like variable, but then again this is why I am not leveraging into CRE.

    Underwriting by full time AMs is cool, but that doesn't give me really any confidence. $14MM AUM is literally peanuts, that gives me even less confidence. Not sure why that would be brought up.

  • Member since 2019 · 2 posts · 1 vote
    2y

    @Vince Mathis Congrats, way to go. What does "MLS aggregation sites" mean? Zillow/Redfin/Realtor or something else?

  • Vince MathisPro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2018 · 44 posts · 53 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Kavin Timtara:

    @Vince Mathis Congrats, way to go. What does "MLS aggregation sites" mean? Zillow/Redfin/Realtor or something else?

    Yep! As well as Loopnet and Crexi for Commercial Real Estate.
  • Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Vince Mathis:

    Investment Info:

    Large multi-family (5+ units) buy & hold investment.

    Purchase price: $2,300,000
    Cash invested: $200,000

    Single Owner 1970's build, Class B, 20 unit apartment complex with garages, acquired with 80% Seller Financing @ 4.19%, amortized for 30 years with a balloon at 5 years. Brought in $200k in private money @ 14% Fixed, interest only.

    Strategy: Long Term Buy & Hold. There is some room for modest improvements to the units which will increase rent approximately 10%, and some expense reductions to be realized.

    What made you interested in investing in this type of deal?

    This was our (my wife and me) fourth and largest purchase. Each year we have at least DOUBLED the number of units we acquire. We have great-paying W2 jobs, but would not be able to acquire the 16+ units for this year with traditional financing and our own capital.

    How did you find this deal and how did you negotiate it?

    I follow multiple MLS aggregation sites and local brokers and had seen this deal originally come up in 2022. The seller's asking price was a bit steep, originally posted at 2.7MM. As rates continued to climb over the last year, the deal sat on the market. I initially contacted the broker and asked if the seller was/would consider seller financing for the right offer. He stated that the seller would, so I submitted an initial Letter of Intent through my RE Attorney.

    How did you finance this deal?

    After some back and forth, we settled at 80% Seller Financed at 4.19% Interest. This is amortized at 30 years, with a balloon to seller at five years. In second position I brought in two local private money lenders. They are debt-only, no equity, and will receive 14% fixed interest, paid quarterly, until we refinance.

    How did you add value to the deal?

    I met the seller where he wanted to be.

    With the interest he will receive through the seller-financing, he will get nearly his original asking price by the time we close the primary note in five years. Over the next three years, we will invest approximately $4-5k to update the units to modern expectations, and be able to see a healthy rise in rent and reduction of time to fill. There will also be cost-cutting efforts through reduction of water usage and connecting to central fire alarms.

    What was the outcome?

    We just closed one week ago, so hard to say, but so far everything is looking good!

    Lessons learned? Challenges?

    The seller-financing aspect was interesting. Learned of the IRS AFR for interest rates, as well as being able to shape the note and mortgage for the first time, instead of a bank directing everything. Also working with local, personal lenders has been awesome. The two I am working with are small business owners with differing levels of experience in real estate, but wanted somewhere stable, yet profitable to put their earned income.

    Did you work with any real estate professionals (agents, lenders, etc.) that you'd recommend to others?

    Tanner Anderson at Cutler Law Firm of Sioux Falls, SD represented me in this purchase. He had great communication and was open to my input while still guiding me within legal requirements and local market expectations.


    Why 14 percent fixed rate ? Don't you think it is too high ? What is your first year DSCR ?

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