Deal of a lifetime - Bought from ailing elderly neighbor

Interior Decorator · Denver · Member since 2022 · 119 posts · 47 votes

Investment Info:

Single-family residence buy & hold investment in Cape Coral.

Purchase price: $60,000
Cash invested: $60,000

2/2 across from canal in desirable neighborhood - Bought from health failing elderly neighbor... Made her the offer of a lifetime to live there for $1.00 per month.

What made you interested in investing in this type of deal?

Three things:
- HUGE equity potential
- We get to significantly improve her quality of life at home and financially
- We get to take care of the property and any eye sore issues, thus benefitting our STR next-door!

How did you find this deal and how did you negotiate it?

We met when we bought the house next door in '22. We adopted her during a 6 week remodel... We came home to Colorado, only to go through the hurricane, she was alone during it and we worked to make sure she was safe and ok. We went back down for a couple weeks this spring to enjoy our property... She went into heart failure... We took care of her, helped her get her affairs in order, saw that she was NOT in a good way health, financial etc... We offered to buy for $60k & she could rent for $1.00

How did you finance this deal?

Cash.

How did you add value to the deal?

We have done a few health and safety updates, fixed hurricane damage etc. About $2k worth.

What was the outcome?

The property was appraised at $290k... Instant equity. She is now happy spending her social security on meds, hobbies and healthy food instead of constantly repairing her home. We gained a grandma:)

Lessons learned? Challenges?

Take the chance. Lead with the head but follow the heart!

Did you work with any real estate professionals (agents, lenders, etc.) that you'd recommend to others?

Yes, we paid our realtor $1800.00 to facilitate the deal and to help make sure all lease agreements and sale agreements were legit and mutually beneficial.

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Account Closed

Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes

Quote from @Terri-Leigh H.:

Investment Info:

Single-family residence buy & hold investment in Cape Coral.

Purchase price: $60,000
Cash invested: $60,000

2/2 across from canal in desirable neighborhood - Bought from health failing elderly neighbor... Made her the offer of a lifetime to live there for $1.00 per month.

What made you interested in investing in this type of deal?

How did you find this deal and how did you negotiate it?

How did you finance this deal?

Cash.

How did you add value to the deal?

We have done a few health and safety updates, fixed hurricane damage etc. About $2k worth.

What was the outcome?

The property was appraised at $290k... Instant equity. She is now happy spending her social security on meds, hobbies and healthy food instead of constantly repairing her home. We gained a grandma:)

Lessons learned? Challenges?

Take the chance. Lead with the head but follow the heart!

Did you work with any real estate professionals (agents, lenders, etc.) that you'd recommend to others?

Yes, we paid our realtor $1800.00 to facilitate the deal and to help make sure all lease agreements and sale agreements were legit and mutually beneficial.

Wow! You gave an ailing woman $60,000 for her house valued at $290,000. You must be something special.

It's interesting that Florida law anticipates such "deals"
"Florida Statute 825.102 as the abuse, neglect, or aggravation of an elder or disabled adult. Elder abuse could include sexual exploitation or financial exploitation."

Elder abuse is a crime in Florida. If the victim suffers no physical pain or permanent deformity, the crime is a third-degree felony.

But don't worry,

Abuse of an older person has the following penalties:

For a third-degree crime, the maximum sentence is only five years in jail. instead of

For a first-degree crime, the sentence may be up to thirty years.

I would not post this publicly for obvious reasons if I were you.

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Kyle Tusing
Real Estate Agent · Northern Virginia · Member since 2019 · 79 posts · 33 votes
3y
Wow! What a great thing you did overall to help her, being kind and helpful may not financially benefit you right now but in the long run, it will pay off. I am a big believer in you get what you give and the act of kindness in offering to help take care of her, giving her a safe home to live in, and only charging her a dollar you deserve any good that comes your way. Always great to see people investing and changing their lives, and even better to see great acts of kindness. You should be proud.
2 Reply
Terri-Leigh H.
OP
Interior Decorator · Denver · Member since 2022 · 119 posts · 47 votes
3y
Quote from @Kyle Tusing:

Wow! What a great thing you did overall to help her, being kind and helpful may not financially benefit you right now but in the long run, it will pay off. I am a big believer in you get what you give and the act of kindness in offering to help take care of her, giving her a safe home to live in, and only charging her a dollar you deserve any good that comes your way. Always great to see people investing and changing their lives, and even better to see great acts of kindness. You should be proud.

Thanks Kyle! It was a weird and wonderful situation. Feels sad that this was the situation that would be best for her but we just knew we could make a real difference in her quality of life and in the end we’d come out on top. So important to put the humanness first!

1 Reply
Account Closed
Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Terri-Leigh H.:

Investment Info:

Single-family residence buy & hold investment in Cape Coral.

Purchase price: $60,000
Cash invested: $60,000

2/2 across from canal in desirable neighborhood - Bought from health failing elderly neighbor... Made her the offer of a lifetime to live there for $1.00 per month.

What made you interested in investing in this type of deal?

Three things:
- HUGE equity potential
- We get to significantly improve her quality of life at home and financially
- We get to take care of the property and any eye sore issues, thus benefitting our STR next-door!

How did you find this deal and how did you negotiate it?

We met when we bought the house next door in '22. We adopted her during a 6 week remodel... We came home to Colorado, only to go through the hurricane, she was alone during it and we worked to make sure she was safe and ok. We went back down for a couple weeks this spring to enjoy our property... She went into heart failure... We took care of her, helped her get her affairs in order, saw that she was NOT in a good way health, financial etc... We offered to buy for $60k & she could rent for $1.00

How did you finance this deal?

Cash.

How did you add value to the deal?

We have done a few health and safety updates, fixed hurricane damage etc. About $2k worth.

What was the outcome?

The property was appraised at $290k... Instant equity. She is now happy spending her social security on meds, hobbies and healthy food instead of constantly repairing her home. We gained a grandma:)

Lessons learned? Challenges?

Take the chance. Lead with the head but follow the heart!

Did you work with any real estate professionals (agents, lenders, etc.) that you'd recommend to others?

Yes, we paid our realtor $1800.00 to facilitate the deal and to help make sure all lease agreements and sale agreements were legit and mutually beneficial.

Wow! You gave an ailing woman $60,000 for her house valued at $290,000. You must be something special.

It's interesting that Florida law anticipates such "deals"
"Florida Statute 825.102 as the abuse, neglect, or aggravation of an elder or disabled adult. Elder abuse could include sexual exploitation or financial exploitation."

Elder abuse is a crime in Florida. If the victim suffers no physical pain or permanent deformity, the crime is a third-degree felony.

But don't worry,

Abuse of an older person has the following penalties:
- For a third-degree crime, the maximum sentence is only five years in jail. instead of
I would not post this publicly for obvious reasons if I were you.
13 Reply
Account Closed
Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Account Closed:
Quote from @Terri-Leigh H.:

Investment Info:

Single-family residence buy & hold investment in Cape Coral.

Purchase price: $60,000
Cash invested: $60,000

2/2 across from canal in desirable neighborhood - Bought from health failing elderly neighbor... Made her the offer of a lifetime to live there for $1.00 per month.

What made you interested in investing in this type of deal?

Three things:
- HUGE equity potential
- We get to significantly improve her quality of life at home and financially
- We get to take care of the property and any eye sore issues, thus benefitting our STR next-door!

How did you find this deal and how did you negotiate it?

We met when we bought the house next door in '22. We adopted her during a 6 week remodel... We came home to Colorado, only to go through the hurricane, she was alone during it and we worked to make sure she was safe and ok. We went back down for a couple weeks this spring to enjoy our property... She went into heart failure... We took care of her, helped her get her affairs in order, saw that she was NOT in a good way health, financial etc... We offered to buy for $60k & she could rent for $1.00

How did you finance this deal?

Cash.

How did you add value to the deal?

We have done a few health and safety updates, fixed hurricane damage etc. About $2k worth.

What was the outcome?

The property was appraised at $290k... Instant equity. She is now happy spending her social security on meds, hobbies and healthy food instead of constantly repairing her home. We gained a grandma:)

Lessons learned? Challenges?

Take the chance. Lead with the head but follow the heart!

Did you work with any real estate professionals (agents, lenders, etc.) that you'd recommend to others?

Yes, we paid our realtor $1800.00 to facilitate the deal and to help make sure all lease agreements and sale agreements were legit and mutually beneficial.

Wow! You gave an ailing woman $60,000 for her house valued at $290,000. You must be something special.

It's interesting that Florida law anticipates such "deals"
"Florida Statute 825.102 as the abuse, neglect, or aggravation of an elder or disabled adult. Elder abuse could include sexual exploitation or financial exploitation."

Elder abuse is a crime in Florida. If the victim suffers no physical pain or permanent deformity, the crime is a third-degree felony.

But don't worry,

Abuse of an older person has the following penalties:

For a third-degree crime, the maximum sentence is only five years in jail. instead of
For a first-degree crime, the sentence may be up to thirty years.
I would not post this publicly for obvious reasons if I were you.
Or better yet, reconsider the terms to something the court won't throw the book at you.
2 Reply
Account Closed
Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Kyle Tusing:

Wow! What a great thing you did overall to help her, being kind and helpful may not financially benefit you right now but in the long run, it will pay off. I am a big believer in you get what you give and the act of kindness in offering to help take care of her, giving her a safe home to live in, and only charging her a dollar you deserve any good that comes your way. Always great to see people investing and changing their lives, and even better to see great acts of kindness. You should be proud.

Interesting perspective. Your Comment "being kind and helpful may not financially benefit you right now but in the long run, it will pay off." Is that a serious comment or a sarcasism?

Let's do the math: she bought a $290,000 house from an elderly woman with health problems for $60,000 for a $230,000 profit. She is charging her a $1 a month so $12 a year (not making additional payments to the ailing lady to live on, but charging her). It will take 19,167 years to break even. My bet is the old ailing lady won't last that long and the buyer will have the property in a year or two.

That my friend is not capitalism or even honest real estate. It's greed and abuse. Please read up on Consumer Protection Law and Elder law.

I can't imagine that the buyer told the seller how much the property is actually worth, advised the seller to consult an independent professional or even stated what comps would show as the true value. These are all things the attorneys/prosecuters will bring up in court. Or, maybe she gets away with it on this one and tries again and on the next one all h**l breaks loose. Don't underestimate that years down the road, lawsuits happen. It's just isn't worth defrauding/scamming/cheating someone, especailly the old and ailing. As George Bush the 1st would say "It wouldn't be prudent". Be honest, be fair but negotiate hard with an informed seller . . . or the courts get involved.

9 Reply
Kyle Tusing
Real Estate Agent · Northern Virginia · Member since 2019 · 79 posts · 33 votes
3y
Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @Kyle Tusing:

Wow! What a great thing you did overall to help her, being kind and helpful may not financially benefit you right now but in the long run, it will pay off. I am a big believer in you get what you give and the act of kindness in offering to help take care of her, giving her a safe home to live in, and only charging her a dollar you deserve any good that comes your way. Always great to see people investing and changing their lives, and even better to see great acts of kindness. You should be proud.

Interesting perspective. Your Comment "being kind and helpful may not financially benefit you right now but in the long run, it will pay off." Is that a serious comment or a sarcasism?

Let's do the math: she bought a $290,000 house from an elderly woman with health problems for $60,000 for a $230,000 profit. She is charging her a $1 a month so $12 a year (not making additional payments to the ailing lady to live on, but charging her). It will take 19,167 years to break even. My bet is the old ailing lady won't last that long and the buyer will have the property in a year or two.

That my friend is not capitalism or even honest real estate. It's greed and abuse. Please read up on Consumer Protection Law and Elder law.

I can't imagine that the buyer told the seller how much the property is actually worth, advised the seller to consult an independent professional or even stated what comps would show as the true value. These are all things the attorneys/prosecuters will bring up in court. Or, maybe she gets away with it on this one and tries again and on the next one all h**l breaks loose. Don't underestimate that years down the road, lawsuits happen. It's just isn't worth defrauding/scamming/cheating someone, especailly the old and ailing. As George Bush the 1st would say "It wouldn't be prudent". Be honest, be fair but negotiate hard with an informed seller . . . or the courts get involved.

I see the perspective you are taking, and I can see where you get that thought originally I had the same opinion. But the fact they allowed her to "rent" it back at $1.00 in my opinion shows that there was no ill intent. Think about it this way, many people with elderly parents/grandparents inherit properties from them without ever even taking care of them in their final years/months/days. Now they are actually assisting her and caring for her well-being and putting her in an easier financial state for the remainder of her life and they are bad people for paying for a distressed property at a discount? I'm not sure of the full details but even if the neighbor had family members they obviously do not care for her fully so I believe they would deserve more right to the property than whoever might have inherited it. Also, it is not fair to assume they did not advise her on the value and assume it was all malicious without knowing those facts, that is the same as saying someone is guilty until proven innocent.
1 Reply
Terri-Leigh H.
OP
Interior Decorator · Denver · Member since 2022 · 119 posts · 47 votes
3y
Hi Mike,

She was the one who got the first appraisal, while deciding what to do, so yes she definitely knows what the property is worth.

Unfortunately without knowing the whole story, I can imagine it’s easy to see if this way.
When you see an elderly woman with SEVERE health issues that could be eased with proper care (that requires finances), like better diet, not the free once a month package of puddings, canned tuna, cheap bread she was getting, proper medicines for her breast cancer, diabetes and heart failure, and proper amenities - like a walk in shower so she can wash and not be covered head to toe in yeast sores from inaccessibility - You get creative on solutions to help that won’t financially harm your own family.

We hired lawyers, arranged for multiple meetings with her church and scheduled realtors and witnesses all to make sure she was fully educated and that everything was legal.

I appreciate your concern for a member of the elderly community, truly, but attack messages like these are what happens when you can’t possibly know the full story, including the fact that Miss Kat calls multiple times a week, that she is extremely relieved her home is no longer in danger of catching fire, flooding from damage from Ian everytime it rains and that the city isn’t assigning a social worker because now her doors lock and her home has been cleared of obstacles, trash and hazards.
And yes, we’ll benefit in the long run and we’ve run our numbers based on the fact we can carry her for 15years. She probably will not make it that long and at that time we’ll be devastated… But we’ll know that whatever time she has left will be comfortable and healthy.

Best, Terri-Leigh

2 Reply
Terri-Leigh H.
OP
Interior Decorator · Denver · Member since 2022 · 119 posts · 47 votes
3y
Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @Kyle Tusing:

Wow! What a great thing you did overall to help her, being kind and helpful may not financially benefit you right now but in the long run, it will pay off. I am a big believer in you get what you give and the act of kindness in offering to help take care of her, giving her a safe home to live in, and only charging her a dollar you deserve any good that comes your way. Always great to see people investing and changing their lives, and even better to see great acts of kindness. You should be proud.

Interesting perspective. Your Comment "being kind and helpful may not financially benefit you right now but in the long run, it will pay off." Is that a serious comment or a sarcasism?

Let's do the math: she bought a $290,000 house from an elderly woman with health problems for $60,000 for a $230,000 profit. She is charging her a $1 a month so $12 a year (not making additional payments to the ailing lady to live on, but charging her). It will take 19,167 years to break even. My bet is the old ailing lady won't last that long and the buyer will have the property in a year or two.

That my friend is not capitalism or even honest real estate. It's greed and abuse. Please read up on Consumer Protection Law and Elder law.

I can't imagine that the buyer told the seller how much the property is actually worth, advised the seller to consult an independent professional or even stated what comps would show as the true value. These are all things the attorneys/prosecuters will bring up in court. Or, maybe she gets away with it on this one and tries again and on the next one all h**l breaks loose. Don't underestimate that years down the road, lawsuits happen. It's just isn't worth defrauding/scamming/cheating someone, especailly the old and ailing. As George Bush the 1st would say "It wouldn't be prudent". Be honest, be fair but negotiate hard with an informed seller . . . or the courts get involved.

Hi Mike,

She was the one who got the first appraisal, while deciding what to do, so yes she definitely knows what the property is worth.

Unfortunately without knowing the whole story, I can imagine it’s easy to see if this way.
When you see an elderly woman with SEVERE health issues that could be eased with proper care (that requires finances), like better diet, not the free once a month package of puddings, canned tuna, cheap bread she was getting, proper medicines for her breast cancer, diabetes and heart failure, and proper amenities - like a walk in shower so she can wash and not be covered head to toe in yeast sores from inaccessibility - You get creative on solutions to help that won’t financially harm your own family.

We hired lawyers, arranged for multiple meetings with her church and scheduled realtors and witnesses all to make sure she was fully educated and that everything was legal.

I appreciate your concern for a member of the elderly community, truly, but attack messages like these are what happens when you can’t possibly know the full story, including the fact that Miss Kat calls multiple times a week, that she is extremely relieved her home is no longer in danger of catching fire, flooding from damage from Ian everytime it rains and that the city isn’t assigning a social worker because now her doors lock and her home has been cleared of obstacles, trash and hazards.
And yes, we’ll benefit in the long run and we’ve run our numbers based on the fact we can carry her for 15years. She probably will not make it that long and at that time we’ll be devastated… But we’ll know that whatever time she has left will be comfortable and healthy.

Best, Terri-Leigh

0 Reply
Terri-Leigh H.
OP
Interior Decorator · Denver · Member since 2022 · 119 posts · 47 votes
3y
Quote from @Kyle Tusing:

Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @Kyle Tusing:

Wow! What a great thing you did overall to help her, being kind and helpful may not financially benefit you right now but in the long run, it will pay off. I am a big believer in you get what you give and the act of kindness in offering to help take care of her, giving her a safe home to live in, and only charging her a dollar you deserve any good that comes your way. Always great to see people investing and changing their lives, and even better to see great acts of kindness. You should be proud.

Interesting perspective. Your Comment "being kind and helpful may not financially benefit you right now but in the long run, it will pay off." Is that a serious comment or a sarcasism?

Let's do the math: she bought a $290,000 house from an elderly woman with health problems for $60,000 for a $230,000 profit. She is charging her a $1 a month so $12 a year (not making additional payments to the ailing lady to live on, but charging her). It will take 19,167 years to break even. My bet is the old ailing lady won't last that long and the buyer will have the property in a year or two.

That my friend is not capitalism or even honest real estate. It's greed and abuse. Please read up on Consumer Protection Law and Elder law.

I can't imagine that the buyer told the seller how much the property is actually worth, advised the seller to consult an independent professional or even stated what comps would show as the true value. These are all things the attorneys/prosecuters will bring up in court. Or, maybe she gets away with it on this one and tries again and on the next one all h**l breaks loose. Don't underestimate that years down the road, lawsuits happen. It's just isn't worth defrauding/scamming/cheating someone, especailly the old and ailing. As George Bush the 1st would say "It wouldn't be prudent". Be honest, be fair but negotiate hard with an informed seller . . . or the courts get involved.

I see the perspective you are taking, and I can see where you get that thought originally I had the same opinion. But the fact they allowed her to "rent" it back at $1.00 in my opinion shows that there was no ill intent. Think about it this way, many people with elderly parents/grandparents inherit properties from them without ever even taking care of them in their final years/months/days. Now they are actually assisting her and caring for her well-being and putting her in an easier financial state for the remainder of her life and they are bad people for paying for a distressed property at a discount? I'm not sure of the full details but even if the neighbor had family members they obviously do not care for her fully so I believe they would deserve more right to the property than whoever might have inherited it. Also, it is not fair to assume they did not advise her on the value and assume it was all malicious without knowing those facts, that is the same as saying someone is guilty until proven innocent.

I appreciate it Kyle. Yes unfortunately she has been disowned by her remaining family. We tried to reach out multiple times.
I added more info below if you’d like to know more details. We have nothing to hide!
1 Reply
Tanner PileBusiness Member
Real Estate Broker · Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2019 · 389 posts · 326 votes
3y
Amazing story!
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0 Reply
Terri-Leigh H.
OP
Interior Decorator · Denver · Member since 2022 · 119 posts · 47 votes
3y
Quote from @Tanner Pile:

Amazing story!

Definitely never thought we would be in the situation. Grateful we can help her and that it’ll be incredible for our family too one day.
0 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Terri-Leigh H.:

Quote from @Kyle Tusing:

Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @Kyle Tusing:

Wow! What a great thing you did overall to help her, being kind and helpful may not financially benefit you right now but in the long run, it will pay off. I am a big believer in you get what you give and the act of kindness in offering to help take care of her, giving her a safe home to live in, and only charging her a dollar you deserve any good that comes your way. Always great to see people investing and changing their lives, and even better to see great acts of kindness. You should be proud.

Interesting perspective. Your Comment "being kind and helpful may not financially benefit you right now but in the long run, it will pay off." Is that a serious comment or a sarcasism?

Let's do the math: she bought a $290,000 house from an elderly woman with health problems for $60,000 for a $230,000 profit. She is charging her a $1 a month so $12 a year (not making additional payments to the ailing lady to live on, but charging her). It will take 19,167 years to break even. My bet is the old ailing lady won't last that long and the buyer will have the property in a year or two.

That my friend is not capitalism or even honest real estate. It's greed and abuse. Please read up on Consumer Protection Law and Elder law.

I can't imagine that the buyer told the seller how much the property is actually worth, advised the seller to consult an independent professional or even stated what comps would show as the true value. These are all things the attorneys/prosecuters will bring up in court. Or, maybe she gets away with it on this one and tries again and on the next one all h**l breaks loose. Don't underestimate that years down the road, lawsuits happen. It's just isn't worth defrauding/scamming/cheating someone, especailly the old and ailing. As George Bush the 1st would say "It wouldn't be prudent". Be honest, be fair but negotiate hard with an informed seller . . . or the courts get involved.

I see the perspective you are taking, and I can see where you get that thought originally I had the same opinion. But the fact they allowed her to "rent" it back at $1.00 in my opinion shows that there was no ill intent. Think about it this way, many people with elderly parents/grandparents inherit properties from them without ever even taking care of them in their final years/months/days. Now they are actually assisting her and caring for her well-being and putting her in an easier financial state for the remainder of her life and they are bad people for paying for a distressed property at a discount? I'm not sure of the full details but even if the neighbor had family members they obviously do not care for her fully so I believe they would deserve more right to the property than whoever might have inherited it. Also, it is not fair to assume they did not advise her on the value and assume it was all malicious without knowing those facts, that is the same as saying someone is guilty until proven innocent.

I appreciate it Kyle. Yes unfortunately she has been disowned by her remaining family. We tried to reach out multiple times.
I added more info below if you’d like to know more details. We have nothing to hide!

I think this situation is best left private. regardless of the situation 290k to 60k Meh you could have paid her double and still been great... I would keep this one to yourself.. I have done one life estate and if worked out for us well but we paid closer to retail/ wholesale not 20% of value.. And our value proposition was the property could be developed in the future for new housing which is what we did.
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Dan H.Pro Member
Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Terri-Leigh H.:

Hi Mike,

She was the one who got the first appraisal, while deciding what to do, so yes she definitely knows what the property is worth.

Unfortunately without knowing the whole story, I can imagine it’s easy to see if this way.
When you see an elderly woman with SEVERE health issues that could be eased with proper care (that requires finances), like better diet, not the free once a month package of puddings, canned tuna, cheap bread she was getting, proper medicines for her breast cancer, diabetes and heart failure, and proper amenities - like a walk in shower so she can wash and not be covered head to toe in yeast sores from inaccessibility - You get creative on solutions to help that won’t financially harm your own family.

We hired lawyers, arranged for multiple meetings with her church and scheduled realtors and witnesses all to make sure she was fully educated and that everything was legal.

I appreciate your concern for a member of the elderly community, truly, but attack messages like these are what happens when you can’t possibly know the full story, including the fact that Miss Kat calls multiple times a week, that she is extremely relieved her home is no longer in danger of catching fire, flooding from damage from Ian everytime it rains and that the city isn’t assigning a social worker because now her doors lock and her home has been cleared of obstacles, trash and hazards.
And yes, we’ll benefit in the long run and we’ve run our numbers based on the fact we can carry her for 15years. She probably will not make it that long and at that time we’ll be devastated… But we’ll know that whatever time she has left will be comfortable and healthy.

Best, Terri-Leigh

Even if the owner was aware of the value being significantly higher than the negotiated price, it does not protect you from an accustaion of elder abuse. This is because even if the seller is aware of the actual value of the property, it does not imply that it is not elder abuse to purchase so much below value. This is compounded if she is a lonely, dying elder person.
The lawyer involved in the transaction should have provided at a minimum a warning of the risk.
I am currently involved in a case from the other perspective. I am the trustee on an estate that has a smaller value (but higher in percentage terms - purchase was at 4 to 8% of value versus yours is a little over 20% of value) issue. As trustee, it is my responsibility to act in best interest of the heirs. The speed of this case is slower than molasis somewhat effected by the backlog still related to Covid (it has been over a year). The other side's case is that the deceased was still legally responsible. However, he was on oxygen, pain meds, and dying when he agreed to the sell and this was visible (he required oxygen at all times). I refer to the buyer as scumbag.
You need to determine if you are the scumbag in this case or if the seller got fair value. The fact you refer to it as the "deal of a lifetime" leads me to believe that you recognize this was not a fair transaction and could result in legal action by the estate.
4 Reply
Joe S.Pro Member
Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
3y
As you can see by several replies an outside party could get a negative view of the transaction. Your title itself doesn’t lend you any favors if you was trying to appear as an angel and great good Samaritan. If you actually gave the seller a better quality of life and there’s many other circumstances to make you a hero the general public would not know that. I actually thought at first that you might be posting this post as an anti-landlord/ Investor trolling, but then seen you had a number of other post so I ruled that option out. There are a lot of landlord haters looking to find a post like yours.
This is my perspective at first glance and is not a personal attack..

Best regards

1 Reply
Terri-Leigh H.
OP
Interior Decorator · Denver · Member since 2022 · 119 posts · 47 votes
3y
Quote from @Joe S.:

As you can see by several replies an outside party could get a negative view of the transaction. Your title itself doesn’t lend you any favors if you was trying to appear as an angel and great good Samaritan. If you actually gave the seller a better quality of life and there’s many other circumstances to make you a hero the general public would not know that. I actually thought at first that you might be posting this post as an anti-landlord/ Investor trolling, but then seen you had a number of other post so I ruled that option out. There are a lot of landlord haters looking to find a post like yours.
This is my perspective at first glance and is not a personal attack..

Best regards

Appreciate it! What I posted are the facts of the deal. I don’t have anything to hide so I’m not worried. We’ve taken the precautions we could to protect her and us. Everyone involved knows the details:)

1 Reply
Terri-Leigh H.
OP
Interior Decorator · Denver · Member since 2022 · 119 posts · 47 votes
3y
Quote from @Dan H.:

Quote from @Terri-Leigh H.:

Hi Mike,

She was the one who got the first appraisal, while deciding what to do, so yes she definitely knows what the property is worth.

Unfortunately without knowing the whole story, I can imagine it’s easy to see if this way.
When you see an elderly woman with SEVERE health issues that could be eased with proper care (that requires finances), like better diet, not the free once a month package of puddings, canned tuna, cheap bread she was getting, proper medicines for her breast cancer, diabetes and heart failure, and proper amenities - like a walk in shower so she can wash and not be covered head to toe in yeast sores from inaccessibility - You get creative on solutions to help that won’t financially harm your own family.

We hired lawyers, arranged for multiple meetings with her church and scheduled realtors and witnesses all to make sure she was fully educated and that everything was legal.

I appreciate your concern for a member of the elderly community, truly, but attack messages like these are what happens when you can’t possibly know the full story, including the fact that Miss Kat calls multiple times a week, that she is extremely relieved her home is no longer in danger of catching fire, flooding from damage from Ian everytime it rains and that the city isn’t assigning a social worker because now her doors lock and her home has been cleared of obstacles, trash and hazards.
And yes, we’ll benefit in the long run and we’ve run our numbers based on the fact we can carry her for 15years. She probably will not make it that long and at that time we’ll be devastated… But we’ll know that whatever time she has left will be comfortable and healthy.

Best, Terri-Leigh

Even if the owner was aware of the value being significantly higher than the negotiated price, it does not protect you from an accustaion of elder abuse. This is because even if the seller is aware of the actual value of the property, it does not imply that it is not elder abuse to purchase so much below value. This is compounded if she is a lonely, dying elder person.
The lawyer involved in the transaction should have provided at a minimum a warning of the risk.
I am currently involved in a case from the other perspective. I am the trustee on an estate that has a smaller value (but higher in percentage terms - purchase was at 4 to 8% of value versus yours is a little over 20% of value) issue. As trustee, it is my responsibility to act in best interest of the heirs. The speed of this case is slower than molasis somewhat effected by the backlog still related to Covid (it has been over a year). The other side's case is that the deceased was still legally responsible. However, he was on oxygen, pain meds, and dying when he agreed to the sell and this was visible (he required oxygen at all times). I refer to the buyer as scumbag.
You need to determine if you are the scumbag in this case or if the seller got fair value. The fact you refer to it as the "deal of a lifetime" leads me to believe that you recognize this was not a fair transaction and could result in legal action by the estate.
Again, what i posted is facts. It is in fact the deal of a lifetime for us… just so happens it’s also the deal of her lifetime and she is protected and safe.

In the past 24hrs her 27 year old water filter burst, destroying her kitchen, floor and drywall. Thank goodness we own the property. We are $6500 in to restoration already this morning. She would be in DIRE straits.

I wish you knew me. I’m no scum bag but it’s not my job to convince anyone of that!
0 Reply
Terri-Leigh H.
OP
Interior Decorator · Denver · Member since 2022 · 119 posts · 47 votes
3y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Terri-Leigh H.:

Quote from @Kyle Tusing:

Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @Kyle Tusing:

Wow! What a great thing you did overall to help her, being kind and helpful may not financially benefit you right now but in the long run, it will pay off. I am a big believer in you get what you give and the act of kindness in offering to help take care of her, giving her a safe home to live in, and only charging her a dollar you deserve any good that comes your way. Always great to see people investing and changing their lives, and even better to see great acts of kindness. You should be proud.

Interesting perspective. Your Comment "being kind and helpful may not financially benefit you right now but in the long run, it will pay off." Is that a serious comment or a sarcasism?

Let's do the math: she bought a $290,000 house from an elderly woman with health problems for $60,000 for a $230,000 profit. She is charging her a $1 a month so $12 a year (not making additional payments to the ailing lady to live on, but charging her). It will take 19,167 years to break even. My bet is the old ailing lady won't last that long and the buyer will have the property in a year or two.

That my friend is not capitalism or even honest real estate. It's greed and abuse. Please read up on Consumer Protection Law and Elder law.

I can't imagine that the buyer told the seller how much the property is actually worth, advised the seller to consult an independent professional or even stated what comps would show as the true value. These are all things the attorneys/prosecuters will bring up in court. Or, maybe she gets away with it on this one and tries again and on the next one all h**l breaks loose. Don't underestimate that years down the road, lawsuits happen. It's just isn't worth defrauding/scamming/cheating someone, especailly the old and ailing. As George Bush the 1st would say "It wouldn't be prudent". Be honest, be fair but negotiate hard with an informed seller . . . or the courts get involved.

I see the perspective you are taking, and I can see where you get that thought originally I had the same opinion. But the fact they allowed her to "rent" it back at $1.00 in my opinion shows that there was no ill intent. Think about it this way, many people with elderly parents/grandparents inherit properties from them without ever even taking care of them in their final years/months/days. Now they are actually assisting her and caring for her well-being and putting her in an easier financial state for the remainder of her life and they are bad people for paying for a distressed property at a discount? I'm not sure of the full details but even if the neighbor had family members they obviously do not care for her fully so I believe they would deserve more right to the property than whoever might have inherited it. Also, it is not fair to assume they did not advise her on the value and assume it was all malicious without knowing those facts, that is the same as saying someone is guilty until proven innocent.

I appreciate it Kyle. Yes unfortunately she has been disowned by her remaining family. We tried to reach out multiple times.
I added more info below if you’d like to know more details. We have nothing to hide!

I think this situation is best left private. regardless of the situation 290k to 60k Meh you could have paid her double and still been great... I would keep this one to yourself.. I have done one life estate and if worked out for us well but we paid closer to retail/ wholesale not 20% of value.. And our value proposition was the property could be developed in the future for new housing which is what we did.
I don’t feel like there is anything to hide:)

What I posted was facts, everyone else’s feelings about it, are just that.

Our attorney, agents and Miss Kat herself are the only ones whose opinions actually matter.

I’m happy to share this because I think there is value in deals like this where we can make cool financially beneficial deals while also changing someone’s life for the better.

But I appreciate the feedback:)
0 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Terri-Leigh H.:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Terri-Leigh H.:

Quote from @Kyle Tusing:

Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @Kyle Tusing:

Wow! What a great thing you did overall to help her, being kind and helpful may not financially benefit you right now but in the long run, it will pay off. I am a big believer in you get what you give and the act of kindness in offering to help take care of her, giving her a safe home to live in, and only charging her a dollar you deserve any good that comes your way. Always great to see people investing and changing their lives, and even better to see great acts of kindness. You should be proud.

Interesting perspective. Your Comment "being kind and helpful may not financially benefit you right now but in the long run, it will pay off." Is that a serious comment or a sarcasism?

Let's do the math: she bought a $290,000 house from an elderly woman with health problems for $60,000 for a $230,000 profit. She is charging her a $1 a month so $12 a year (not making additional payments to the ailing lady to live on, but charging her). It will take 19,167 years to break even. My bet is the old ailing lady won't last that long and the buyer will have the property in a year or two.

That my friend is not capitalism or even honest real estate. It's greed and abuse. Please read up on Consumer Protection Law and Elder law.

I can't imagine that the buyer told the seller how much the property is actually worth, advised the seller to consult an independent professional or even stated what comps would show as the true value. These are all things the attorneys/prosecuters will bring up in court. Or, maybe she gets away with it on this one and tries again and on the next one all h**l breaks loose. Don't underestimate that years down the road, lawsuits happen. It's just isn't worth defrauding/scamming/cheating someone, especailly the old and ailing. As George Bush the 1st would say "It wouldn't be prudent". Be honest, be fair but negotiate hard with an informed seller . . . or the courts get involved.

I see the perspective you are taking, and I can see where you get that thought originally I had the same opinion. But the fact they allowed her to "rent" it back at $1.00 in my opinion shows that there was no ill intent. Think about it this way, many people with elderly parents/grandparents inherit properties from them without ever even taking care of them in their final years/months/days. Now they are actually assisting her and caring for her well-being and putting her in an easier financial state for the remainder of her life and they are bad people for paying for a distressed property at a discount? I'm not sure of the full details but even if the neighbor had family members they obviously do not care for her fully so I believe they would deserve more right to the property than whoever might have inherited it. Also, it is not fair to assume they did not advise her on the value and assume it was all malicious without knowing those facts, that is the same as saying someone is guilty until proven innocent.

I appreciate it Kyle. Yes unfortunately she has been disowned by her remaining family. We tried to reach out multiple times.
I added more info below if you’d like to know more details. We have nothing to hide!

I think this situation is best left private. regardless of the situation 290k to 60k Meh you could have paid her double and still been great... I would keep this one to yourself.. I have done one life estate and if worked out for us well but we paid closer to retail/ wholesale not 20% of value.. And our value proposition was the property could be developed in the future for new housing which is what we did.
I don’t feel like there is anything to hide:)

What I posted was facts, everyone else’s feelings about it, are just that.

Our attorney, agents and Miss Kat herself are the only ones whose opinions actually matter.

I’m happy to share this because I think there is value in deals like this where we can make cool financially beneficial deals while also changing someone’s life for the better.

But I appreciate the feedback:)

well You could have done all you did for her without buying her house right ?? as a good neighbor and good citizen. U could do her yard work so it does not hurt your STR. Since we are sharing opinions mine is this is an unconscionable profit. But your proud of what you did the the deal you struck so there you go your the one who has to reconcile it. And obviously you have and your sharing it with the world.
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4 Reply
Terri-Leigh H.
OP
Interior Decorator · Denver · Member since 2022 · 119 posts · 47 votes
3y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Terri-Leigh H.:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Terri-Leigh H.:

Quote from @Kyle Tusing:

Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @Kyle Tusing:

Wow! What a great thing you did overall to help her, being kind and helpful may not financially benefit you right now but in the long run, it will pay off. I am a big believer in you get what you give and the act of kindness in offering to help take care of her, giving her a safe home to live in, and only charging her a dollar you deserve any good that comes your way. Always great to see people investing and changing their lives, and even better to see great acts of kindness. You should be proud.

Interesting perspective. Your Comment "being kind and helpful may not financially benefit you right now but in the long run, it will pay off." Is that a serious comment or a sarcasism?

Let's do the math: she bought a $290,000 house from an elderly woman with health problems for $60,000 for a $230,000 profit. She is charging her a $1 a month so $12 a year (not making additional payments to the ailing lady to live on, but charging her). It will take 19,167 years to break even. My bet is the old ailing lady won't last that long and the buyer will have the property in a year or two.

That my friend is not capitalism or even honest real estate. It's greed and abuse. Please read up on Consumer Protection Law and Elder law.

I can't imagine that the buyer told the seller how much the property is actually worth, advised the seller to consult an independent professional or even stated what comps would show as the true value. These are all things the attorneys/prosecuters will bring up in court. Or, maybe she gets away with it on this one and tries again and on the next one all h**l breaks loose. Don't underestimate that years down the road, lawsuits happen. It's just isn't worth defrauding/scamming/cheating someone, especailly the old and ailing. As George Bush the 1st would say "It wouldn't be prudent". Be honest, be fair but negotiate hard with an informed seller . . . or the courts get involved.

I see the perspective you are taking, and I can see where you get that thought originally I had the same opinion. But the fact they allowed her to "rent" it back at $1.00 in my opinion shows that there was no ill intent. Think about it this way, many people with elderly parents/grandparents inherit properties from them without ever even taking care of them in their final years/months/days. Now they are actually assisting her and caring for her well-being and putting her in an easier financial state for the remainder of her life and they are bad people for paying for a distressed property at a discount? I'm not sure of the full details but even if the neighbor had family members they obviously do not care for her fully so I believe they would deserve more right to the property than whoever might have inherited it. Also, it is not fair to assume they did not advise her on the value and assume it was all malicious without knowing those facts, that is the same as saying someone is guilty until proven innocent.

I appreciate it Kyle. Yes unfortunately she has been disowned by her remaining family. We tried to reach out multiple times.
I added more info below if you’d like to know more details. We have nothing to hide!

I think this situation is best left private. regardless of the situation 290k to 60k Meh you could have paid her double and still been great... I would keep this one to yourself.. I have done one life estate and if worked out for us well but we paid closer to retail/ wholesale not 20% of value.. And our value proposition was the property could be developed in the future for new housing which is what we did.
I don’t feel like there is anything to hide:)

What I posted was facts, everyone else’s feelings about it, are just that.

Our attorney, agents and Miss Kat herself are the only ones whose opinions actually matter.

I’m happy to share this because I think there is value in deals like this where we can make cool financially beneficial deals while also changing someone’s life for the better.

But I appreciate the feedback:)

well You could have done all you did for her without buying her house right ?? as a good neighbor and good citizen. U could do her yard work so it does not hurt your STR. Since we are sharing opinions mine is this is an unconscionable profit. But your proud of what you did the the deal you struck so there you go your the one who has to reconcile it. And obviously you have and your sharing it with the world.
Nope. I could not have invested that much time and money unless it was going to contribute to my over all financial security. She needed the $1200 she was paying in PITI. Would you give that to someone each month? I couldn’t sadly. So we can up with the best solution we could.

But you are entitled to your opinion!

0 Reply
Account Closed
Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Terri-Leigh H.:

Investment Info:

Single-family residence buy & hold investment in Cape Coral.

Purchase price: $60,000
Cash invested: $60,000

2/2 across from canal in desirable neighborhood - Bought from health failing elderly neighbor... Made her the offer of a lifetime to live there for $1.00 per month.

How did you add value to the deal?

We have done a few health and safety updates, fixed hurricane damage etc. About $2k worth.

What was the outcome?

The property was appraised at $290k... Instant equity. She is now happy spending her social security on meds, hobbies and healthy food

(some editing done to narrow down to the salient point)
And of all of the "professionals", NO ONE? told her to do a reverse mortgage where she'd get presumably $290,000 instead of $60,000 and have no payments? But she'd certainly get a lot more than $60,000 doing a reverse mortgage. Well, besides the legal exposure & liability, your generosity knows no bounds (on either end of the spectrum)
Amazing.
I see you've posted this multiple times, so nothing I have to say will matter to you, but it may make sense to the lurkers who never comment. Enough said.

7 Reply
Terri-Leigh H.
OP
Interior Decorator · Denver · Member since 2022 · 119 posts · 47 votes
3y
Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @Terri-Leigh H.:

Investment Info:

Single-family residence buy & hold investment in Cape Coral.

Purchase price: $60,000
Cash invested: $60,000

2/2 across from canal in desirable neighborhood - Bought from health failing elderly neighbor... Made her the offer of a lifetime to live there for $1.00 per month.

How did you add value to the deal?

We have done a few health and safety updates, fixed hurricane damage etc. About $2k worth.

What was the outcome?

The property was appraised at $290k... Instant equity. She is now happy spending her social security on meds, hobbies and healthy food

(some editing done to narrow down to the salient point)
And of all of the "professionals", NO ONE? told her to do a reverse mortgage where she'd get presumably $290,000 instead of $60,000 and have no payments? But she'd certainly get a lot more than $60,000 doing a reverse mortgage. Well, besides the legal exposure & liability, your generosity knows no bounds (on either end of the spectrum)
Amazing.
I see you've posted this multiple times, so nothing I have to say will matter to you, but it may make sense to the lurkers who never comment. Enough said.

To be honest, I’m not even sure what that is. A reverse mortgage?

I’m def going to look it up.

Mike, you disagree with this deal, I get it. Thank you for all the insight so far. I’ve learned something new, which is I’m sure the point of this forum.
1 Reply
Terri-Leigh H.
OP
Interior Decorator · Denver · Member since 2022 · 119 posts · 47 votes
3y
Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @Terri-Leigh H.:

Investment Info:

Single-family residence buy & hold investment in Cape Coral.

Purchase price: $60,000
Cash invested: $60,000

2/2 across from canal in desirable neighborhood - Bought from health failing elderly neighbor... Made her the offer of a lifetime to live there for $1.00 per month.

How did you add value to the deal?

We have done a few health and safety updates, fixed hurricane damage etc. About $2k worth.

What was the outcome?

The property was appraised at $290k... Instant equity. She is now happy spending her social security on meds, hobbies and healthy food

(some editing done to narrow down to the salient point)
And of all of the "professionals", NO ONE? told her to do a reverse mortgage where she'd get presumably $290,000 instead of $60,000 and have no payments? But she'd certainly get a lot more than $60,000 doing a reverse mortgage. Well, besides the legal exposure & liability, your generosity knows no bounds (on either end of the spectrum)
Amazing.
I see you've posted this multiple times, so nothing I have to say will matter to you, but it may make sense to the lurkers who never comment. Enough said.

Ok. So from my understanding, she’d still have to pay her $600 in insurance and taxes every month and then her loan amount grows, so the longer she lives, the more she owes, or her heirs owe? And then she still has to pay for the upkeep and maintenance while just trying to survive.
Does she get a lump sum payout?

Because Mike, if she does not, I don’t think you have grasped the direness of her situation. Literally $2000 to her name in her saving (and I know this because I’ve spent 6months helping her sort out her finances, paying her mortgage for her while she was in hospital) etc. After all her expenses prior to us buying her house she eas left with $200 each month for food, adult diapers and etc.
1 Reply
Chris John
Member since 2020 · 671 posts · 937 votes
3y
@Terri-Leigh H.

"We’ve taken the precautions we could to protect her and us."
The fact that you don't see how unintentionally hilarious this line is is beyond me.
Here's another take. You didn't save her anything monthly, instead you charged her an up front fee of 230k for your "kindness".
7 Reply
Terri-Leigh H.
OP
Interior Decorator · Denver · Member since 2022 · 119 posts · 47 votes
3y
Quote from @Chris John:

@Terri-Leigh H.

"We’ve taken the precautions we could to protect her and us."
The fact that you don't see how unintentionally hilarious this line is is beyond me.
Here's another take. You didn't save her anything monthly, instead you charged her an up front fee of 230k for your "kindness".
Hey Chris, not sure why you are being so mean in the expression of your opinion, but you are entitled to it. I do hope you've read all the info I've since included.
0 Reply
Steve Ehrman
Troy, MI · Member since 2019 · 61 posts · 20 votes
3y
@Terri-Leigh Huleis. How much is her mortgage? Was that also paid off when you paid her $60K for the house?
That seems a central point to the whole deal. I have been reading the posts and this is the first time I have seen it mentioned.
0 Reply

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