Why does Everyone Hate Than Merril??

Question

Everytime I tell a Rehabber or a Wholsaler that I'm going to the 3 Day Bootcamp of Furtune Builders I always get people telling me not to go..??But I see so Many people went there..

I see other "Guru's" Charging $3,000 - $7,000 for less..

Why is Everyone Hatting on Than??

Nick C. · Answer

I don't think it's Than specifically that people hate. It's gurus in general. Guru-ing is a dirty business. They prey on people and clean out their life's savings by promising them a better life if they just take (insert guru here) course. They spend days or even weeks filling their head with outdated or irrelevant information, which is all free on this website btw.

I'll never understand why people believe that real estate attracts so many philanthropists and humanitarians who are just wanting to help complete strangers escape the rat race. They aren't philanthropists and they aren't holding seminars to help anyone but themselves. They're doing it because they can make more money guru-ing than by flipping houses. If they wanted to help people they would have gone into social work, not real estate.

It's a terrific marketing tool for them. They're establishing themselves as the expert to a large group of sometimes desperate people, and when one of their "students" has a grandmother or uncle who needs to sell a house fast for cash, who do you think they turn to? The expert guru, who does them a solid and hooks them up with a small birddog fee. Then the guru takes the $40k fee they make off of the deal and flashes it on facebook and says "if you want to make $40k like me come take my seminar". And the life cycle of the guru repeats itself, just like any other parasite.

Jay Hinrichs · Answer

@Ned Carey  you make a good point about flipping...  its all about velocity.

and with the competition a good profit these days is in a lot of areas 10 to 20k per deal.

so to make any real money you need to be closing 2 to 3 a month on the retail side.

you must also prime the pump.. as the time to start to finish is 4 months if your very very good

to 6 to 9 if its a big job... so to get that monthly volume up and running as  a flipper..

you need 6 months of inventory before you make a pay day... so that 12 to 18 homes bought and under construction ( this is the guys you know that do 40 a year or more).

So lets say each job is 100k all in.. that's 1,2 mil to 1.8 million in capital that is needed out the gate.

so lets say you need about 25% in equity for your loans.. that's 400 to 500k in cash you need to float your rehab and get reimbursed so you need 20 to 50k a week for rehab up front then get reimbursed.

you have 15 loans at 12% interest or say 1.2 mil in loans out at 12% at all times.. that's 12k a month in payments lets say you have another 8k in over head tax's insurance utls gas an employee.. etc etc.  so in addition to the 400 to 500k in cash you need 20k a month in fixed costs 20 to 50k a week ( that is reimbursed but say 100k liquid for that).

so to get started looks like

500k in equity

100k  to float draws

120k  in HML payments.

And you better have a great pipeline to get the deals and you better have a great agent to sell the deals.

so your making net 30 to 60k a month.. so 360 to 720k a year in net income if it all goes right which it never does you will have one you lost 20k on guarantee that..

So it can be very nice business usually take two folks to do that volume a partnership if you will.

Now what some gurus talk about is a gap funder.. 2nd lender.. that's possible but highly risky for them.

At the end of the day depending on your skill set and your market a great commercial RE borker or RESi agent can do this well with maybe 50k in over head and on going expenses.. my wife sold 14 million last year herself on her own... so you can do the math on that... LOL.. she has a flat fee of 12k a year at her brokerage and say another 8 in over head.

Michael Wagner · Answer

I agree with much of what has been said above but I also believe there are good educational opportunities out there.  I've been too numerous events that cost $500 to $1500 for 1-3 days of education.  None of these were the TV caliber Guru's but I found all of them to have some value.  Some were well worth the money based on educational content alone.  Most were well worth the money based on a combined benefit achieved through the education and the networking.  And a rare few were lacking in enough content to justify the cost but the networking brought me pretty darn close to getting my full money's worth.  Even the "good guys" will still have a product to up sell you too but will give enough real workable content to justify the cost of the event you are at.

I've heard Than's free 2 hour class is nothing more than straight pitch.  Also heard mixed reviews on the 3 day. Some say enough content delivered to justify the $197 or whatever it costs...others say even that is too much. I'm going to the free one tomorrow.....(solely to network as I am starting a local meet up in the exact location of his course) but have no intention of pursuing beyond that.

Generally speaking...and please dont hang me for saying this....I think the BP community is overly hard on paid RE Education.  Yes there is tons of content on the internet and especially here on BP but the same can be said for the info required to diagnose a heart attack.... that doesn't mean I'm going to refuse to pay my doctor when I need him.  You've just got to make sure your doctor is a qualified practitioner rather than a snake oil salesman.  Admittedly easier to do with a doctor than a Guru!

Ned Carey · Answer

Account Closed

I can't speak specifically to Fortune Builders. I have no experience with them. In fact I do know one company that does 50 deals a year and said they learned a lot there.

You should realize that is a common scam. Many "Gurus" say we fund our students deals as a sales pitch. Yet what people find is that no deal qualifies.

The majority of flippers do not make a ton of money. Just as in may things in life the 80/20 rule applies. 20% of the investors make 80% of the money. Flipping and renting are not near as easy as the sale pitches  make it seam.

I am a big believer in investing in myself. I have spent a LOT of money on courses, seminars boot camps etc. Some were great, some not so much, and some were downright bad. I still to this day pay for coaching. I have learned a LOT from these course. For Me this education has been a very good investment.

However I also know that the failure rate is high.  Paying big money for an education when the success rate typically is like 5% to perhaps 10% is hard to recommend.

Basically it is a personal decision. If you are going to borrow just to pay for the course, it is probably a bad idea. If you pay $5,000 for a course and if it doesn't work out, it won't affect your lifestyle  then go for it.

Jeff B. · Answer

@Nick Colamarino good comment.  Their product is the Seminar - - students get trivial cookie cutter info in return and walk away ASSUMING this is easy stuff - - only to fall into the pit of all the details they did not learn before plunking down the 40k.

Jay Hinrichs · Answer

Account Closed  the TV stars just rent their name and make huge money doing it.. they may make a cameo at the 40k event.

the only one I personally witnessed who was there the entire time was Armando..

and now Vertucci is also very hands on but was not a TV star before he got into the seminar game. I know him personally as a client of mine over the years and I made millions literally with some of his tips and advice... but I don't think that is normal or can be expected by beginners.

the presentations are run by seminar companies that are very good at what they do and are all Utah based or predominalty.. they also front for many others pretty much anyone on the motivational speaking circuit.. be it Tony Robbins or Collin Powel...

Also just go to a MLM meet up you will see the exact same techniques that are used in the RE seminar business  these techniques have been honed and perfected over time.

Account Closed · Answer

Thanx @Ned Carey

I appreciate that.

What's the worse that's gonna happen...I'm gonna get the most i can out of the training

Sean Kremer · Answer

My opinion? Take that 3 to 7 thousand and put into into an appreciating asset....not some slick suited dude that charges beginners thousands of dollars to sit there and dream, while he tells you all about how great he is as his staff runs your credit card in the back room.

I do think I have bought some of his stuff though on ebay for a couple hundred dollars.......plus someone else underlined all the important stuff for me.....win-win :)  If I remember right?  Its been a while. I'd rather learn my new guru is an idiot after spending a few hundred dollars as opposed to thousands......you can always buy into him if you have to after trying it out a little.

Michael Williams · Answer

Hi Roger, this question is asked a lot on BP, but as @Ned Carey pointed out he has gotten some great information from some of the seminars and paid programs. I've gone to Than's free seminar, with the intention to make some connections. I always gain some knowledge and insight from every free seminar I go to because I take good notes. But the most important thing @Ned Carly said to me was that it was an investment in him, in his knowledge. I am following the path that he is following because if I am investing in myself I can't blame anyone or any program for my failure. The actions I take can bring the results I wish. I have gone to countless free seminars, have paid a few hundred dollars for programs from the gurus, and am in a coaching program right now. First I knew I was in real estate for the long haul, second I spent a lot of time on BP getting free information, watching podcast, and reading books, but for me I needed structure and someone to say "Here is my verified track record, this is how I train, and if you are teachable I can show you how it's done; BUT you have to take the actions I tell you". I have the mindset that if I invest in myself I can make any program work because I believe in my ability. The coach to me is just a hype man to keep me on the right track. Since I made that investment in myself I expect myself to perform at a high level. With my PAID mentor I can go make offers with confidence because he coaches me on the deals and tells me how to structure them and will fund them is the numbers are right. One deal will pay for the coaching so my goal is to get that one deal and after that his services are free for life. This is the way I look at it because the fear of losing money will help you lose money. I watched him for a year before joining. I was that serious. The point is if your are in for the long haul you have to make the decision to go the free route, which can take longer or shorten the curve by investing in a guide through the real estate maze. No matter which ever route you take, do your due diligence before you make the move and make sure it's right for you and your defined strategy. I think many of us need to look at it like this " Maybe it's not the Guru, Maybe it's you". Make the decision and be man enough to live with your decision. JUST DECIDE! Once you decide take appropriate ACTION, but JUST DECIDE. Hope I wasn't too harsh.

Account Closed · Answer

IDK... What about them funding your deals...

the have a Hard Money Program too?

Would it be wise to go and have them as another Connection?

Yes...The Industry is PACKED!

So many people...And so many people saying o this or that and the someone else says if I do that I'll get sued! lol..

I seen experienced Investors and Experienced Agents at his Free 2 Day thing..I went to it twice..and it's the same pitch..But something has to be working if he's still in Business and his Company is as Big as it is.

No one..In ANY business makes it by screwing people over..could it be the 40K price tag for Coaching?

I'm looking for a Mentor and for someone to Show me this game....With all this money to be made Flipping houses and Renting...Why so much hating in it??

Why does Everyone Hate Than Merril??

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