Guru, Book, & Course Reviews
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback
My Experience of Rich Dad/Elite Legacy Event Scam
I want to talk about my experience taking Rich Dad/Elite Legacy Education's three days Real Estate workshop. The conclusion: it's a scam. The purpose of this post is to alert people about this $35K scam (since BP has such a high Google ranking, and hopefully this post might come up in some's search result when they are doing research on this so called "Elite Legacy Education"), and here are the details:
I read the Rich Dad Poor Dad book back in high school, and I'm fascinated by his emphasis on financial education (although later on I realize man of his other books are repetitive and erroneous). So about a month ago, I came across a free rich dad ad on Instagram. Based on the graphic presentation of that ad, it shows Robert Kiyosaki, so I thought it would be great to attend this free event and meet him (similar meet the author events are very common here in NYC, so I didn't give it a second thought). I thought, learning any information is better than not learning at all, isn't it?
So I went the Hilton hotel where they held the conference/event. There were about 100 people attending. Much to my surprise, the author himself was not there--so I figured, they just borrowed the copyrighted trademark "rich dad." The first speaker talked about real estate; he started with a long introduction about how he become rich from a college student with debt by investing in real estate-- the theme of the story: education makes you broke, and you have to get a financial education. Since I always wanted to learn more about real estate and OMG, he was good at selling (plus they create an atmosphere of preying on people's fear of missing out). For the second part, another guy came out, and in the name of "multiple streams of income", he sold another three-day stock workshop course to me. Alright, I mean, after all, it's a free event, so I don't blame them for selling. Because I want to learn more about these subjects, I paid $299+ $199 to learn more about introductory to Real Estate and Stock Market. Fair I thought.
They gave me two bags, with some books and audios to read/listen to at home as my "homework" before the workshops. "Thoughtful!" I thought to myself and thought the workshops must be very intensive.
For me, the 3-day Real Estate Workshop was held at Roosevelt's Hotel.
First Day:
I was given two booklets--
1) Real Estate Workbook (wich supplements the book they gave out before the workshop)
2) Real Estate Elite Workshop Events Catalog (which I first thought was the daily schedule for the workshop but later found out it's an information packet on the $39,500 "elite" courses that they sell)
The ironic part is that, through this three-day event, the so-called instructor Jason Jones referred to the Ad packet "Real Estate Elite Workshop Events Catalog" SIX times (he literally asked us to take it out and flip to certain page) and didn't mention ANYTHING nor asking us to read the "Real Estate Workbook ". What a great way to teach!
The instructor gave a case study where we needed to team up as groups of fours and figure out a way to buy an REO property with no money of our own and increase the equity by 30K. The resources we had:
- a bank (conventional) that lends money up to 35k for 650 credit score
- hard money lender with APR 120%
- seller/community (who acts like he doesn't want to talk at all)
- a real estate mentor that costs $35K to use
The "answer" to this exercise was:
Use personal credit to borrow from the bank and spend the $35k on mentor, and then mentor has the "connection" with the community bank to negotiate a deal and brought a 70K property for 40K with FMV of $140K. However, they didn't discuss how the student was able to raise another 40K (which I'm significantly concerned about lending 40K from a hard money lender and pay APR 20%).
Second Day,
They told us that they were giving out a bonus session for early comers. So people went there at 8:30 before the 9:00 start. And they end up talking about credit repairs.
But then, things turned VERY FISHY:
They asked people their credit score and asked us to fill out a "Strategy Session Checklist" that asked about the full legal name, occupation, annual income, bank account $, 401K, IRA, TSP, Available Credit on Cards, and Credit Score.
Instead of actually having a 1-1 personal financial coaching, they got your financial info and "taught" you to apply for a credit card and pay for their $39,500 program. And they said it's okay to "temporarily" have a bad credit score because you could also repair your credit. Ah! That's what the bonus session was for!
Third Day:
They asked a past student Andy to gave a talk on his success story after going through the program. What's annoying is the woman (one of the "expert" who played "mentor" role) kept on asking him rhetorical questions to prove the value of their program and act like it's the only way for one to succeed in the real estate market. But what I found ironic are:
- Andy, who has been working full time in RE for 4 years, are finally going to make $50K passive annual income from rental (with a flawed net profit calculation that didn't income vacancy rate, maintenance fee); and he said after attending the $39,500 program, he paid total $80K--poor Andy didn't even make his initial investment back after four years and yet they are demonstrating him as a success case.
- In fact, Andy is now a "trainer"--which seems to me, training is their stream of income, not real estate
- Andy revealed that he found his deal leads through words of mouth; what's ironic is the instructor kept on selling the importance of the company's Elite Success Software and told us we can't make deal without it
Instead of teaching something, they spent the whole third day (at least until 1 pm when I finally decided to leave) selling the program. When one student asked if the instructor is going to talk about a case study he promised to demonstrate, he responded (don't remember his exact word, but it's pretty much something like this:) :"If you are not even going to buy the next training, it's not relevant to you." And started to identify us as who will not make money and never succeed in life.
My thoughts:
- I don't mind paying $40K for real estate education; however, my reservation is their professionalism. So far they only demonstrated their proficiency in the art of selling but nothing talented about their industry knowledge.
- They are extremely manipulative in their sales approach. Don't get me wrong; I don't hate sales people, being in Media industry myself, I understand that selling is necessary because at the end of the day everyone has bills to pay. But you need to be at least transparent and ethical in your practice. They are not calculating, but also very deceptive that now when I look back, the whole three days training is a step by step scripted the process of selling, every single second of it.
- I went to a top college and have a very stable career with great income. However, most people attending the event are less than college educated and have lower income. The fact that they don't have critical thinking skills and limited income/saving, makes them desperate and easy target. This is also my purpose for sharing the experience with the BP community and the internet community so that people are more informed. Seeing someone with bad credit, messed up financial, no job, putting the debt on his parent's account to pay for this program and hope to achieve a dream that he's most likely not achieve, really breaks my heart!
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Stay away from the snake-oil salesmen.
Thanks John, I will. I'm surprised that there is no law to prohibit them from doing this. I did a simple calculation, they make millions a year from this! Feel really bad for those who fall for it.
#4 All Forums Contributor
- Lender
- Lake Oswego OR Summerlin, NV
- 61,572
- Votes |
- 41,792
- Posts
#4 All Forums Contributor
- Lender
- Lake Oswego OR Summerlin, NV
@Constance Kang the first set up team are usually paid Hollywood actors. Literally.
Thanks for sharing Constance Kang . Pretty much confirms my suspicions. I went to one of their free seminars a year ago where we were led to believe Robert would be speaking. Instead we got some smooth sales dude who had hit rock bottom and is now "rich" because he took on debt to do a RIch Dad program years ago. There was also a guy who pitched their stock option trading program. I must admit their sales pitch is effective. I was on the verge of spending the $300 on the 3 day program but due to a hunch decided against it. Something about how pushy they were being made me suspicious.
I also noticed what you noticed that most of the people rushing to spend money on the 3-day program didn't seem college educated or very financially savvy at all.
What a shame, because Kiyosaki's original book was full of such great wisdom to live by. It just seems like the guy tasted a little bit of fame and success and decided he could make more money with these get rich quick programs and ripping people off, than investing in real estate itself. It's basically Trump university. Too bad.
Hi
All I can say is amen. I have had to put students on a repair program to help them after doing this very thing. It seems to be the norm in this field anymore. To be totally clear: I am a mentor and have spoken on several stages to confirm some of the information they talk about is in fact doable. This is only if I know or have studied under this person (*************, Ron Legrand ect..).
Some of the others I have seen should be shot for letting their sales team out of UT sell the way they do. I have been kicked out of several for asking if you have to be a 40k student first to get their so called funding (free money for your deals) first. You can hear a pin drop when i drop that one.. Next thing you know it's time for a short break and your free to go..lol
The bottom line is know what you are buying and look deep inside yourself to ask the hard questions: Will I not be able to eat or live if I buy this, will i do the hard work to make it work for me. I am here to tell you that if country boy like me can do what I have done over the last five years than ANYONE can do this. NOW GO GET SOME..
Originally posted by @Eric A.:
Thanks for sharing Constance Kang . Pretty much confirms my suspicions. I went to one of their free seminars a year ago where we were led to believe Robert would be speaking. Instead we got some smooth sales dude who had hit rock bottom and is now "rich" because he took on debt to do a RIch Dad program years ago. There was also a guy who pitched their stock option trading program. I must admit their sales pitch is effective. I was on the verge of spending the $300 on the 3 day program but due to a hunch decided against it. Something about how pushy they were being made me suspicious.
I also noticed what you noticed that most of the people rushing to spend money on the 3-day program didn't seem college educated or very financially savvy at all.
What a shame, because Kiyosaki's original book was full of such great wisdom to live by. It just seems like the guy tasted a little bit of fame and success and decided he could make more money with these get rich quick programs and ripping people off, than investing in real estate itself. It's basically Trump university. Too bad.
Hi Eric, I'm glad that you didn't buy into it. $300 for a small loss for me, but I feel bad for those who paid for $40k program. Many people recognized their scam and left, but I feel like I should say something so that people who read this post doesn't end up in the same situation.
What's ironic was although they stressed the importance of financial education in the beginning, they later pretty much told the audience "join the program, you'll have all the mentor, resource, and power team, and you can make money in real estate without really knowing anything and using other people's money". Anyone with a reasonable mind would know that in this industry YOU need to know the knowledge yourself+ hard work in order to create wealth. Those people were too desperate and also lazy/greedy, which led themselves into believing the only way to make money is through connection+opportunity.
Too bad, I tried to warn them; however, they though me as the 98% idiots who don't want them to become successful.
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
@Constance Kang the first set up team are usually paid Hollywood actors. Literally.
Yes Jay, indeed! One of them actually admits that he was an actor before becoming a trainer. But from what I see, he is still an damn good actor!
#4 All Forums Contributor
- Lender
- Lake Oswego OR Summerlin, NV
- 61,572
- Votes |
- 41,792
- Posts
#4 All Forums Contributor
- Lender
- Lake Oswego OR Summerlin, NV
@Constance Kang just think of MLM pitchs of the 80s and 90s same actors same heart strings they tug at.
I be he got up showed pictures of wife and kids and made a big ta do about doing it for family blah blah balh..
Not everyone wants to spend all their time with their kids.. I know I dont
Originally posted by @Keith Boley:
Hi
All I can say is amen. I have had to put students on a repair program to help them after doing this very thing. It seems to be the norm in this field anymore. To be totally clear: I am a mentor and have spoken on several stages to confirm some of the information they talk about is in fact doable. This is only if I know or have studied under this person (*************, Ron Legrand ect..).
Some of the others I have seen should be shot for letting their sales team out of UT sell the way they do. I have been kicked out of several for asking if you have to be a 40k student first to get their so called funding (free money for your deals) first. You can hear a pin drop when i drop that one.. Next thing you know it's time for a short break and your free to go..lol
The bottom line is know what you are buying and look deep inside yourself to ask the hard questions: Will I not be able to eat or live if I buy this, will i do the hard work to make it work for me. I am here to tell you that if country boy like me can do what I have done over the last five years than ANYONE can do this. NOW GO GET SOME..
Hi Keith, thank you for your advice. I hope now that we exposed them, people, who are now in a similar situation will be able to identify this scam and not lose their money and credit over this. I'm very surprised that the government has no regulation on this! And it seems like they have been running this kind of scam for over 10 years!
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
@Constance Kang just think of MLM pitchs of the 80s and 90s same actors same heart strings they tug at.
I be he got up showed pictures of wife and kids and made a big ta do about doing it for family blah blah balh..
Not everyone wants to spend all their time with their kids.. I know I dont
Yes Jay, they did! They preyed on people inner motivation (which is family for most people) and try to relate to us so that we will put down our defenses. They even showed us a TED Talk video and asked us to write down "Before I die, I will..."
Thanks @Constance Kang for sharing your experience of a RDPD Seminar. They tend to get people to attend their seminars that have no understanding of RE Investing and think that they have to "pay to play".
Others have found value in some rather expensive upsell's and many people on BP have stated that they have spent a fair amount on programs.
I have spent less than $250 but have learned more on BP than the 2 programs/ packets that I found online.
Originally posted by @Robert Blanchard:
Thanks @Constance Kang for sharing your experience of a RDPD Seminar. They tend to get people to attend their seminars that have no understanding of RE Investing and think that they have to "pay to play".
Others have found value in some rather expensive upsell's and many people on BP have stated that they have spent a fair amount on programs.
I have spent less than $250 but have learned more on BP than the 2 programs/ packets that I found online.
Same here. Although I care less about my financial loss, what upsets me is their manipulative conducts. I like BP, although BP also tries to sell me certain products, at least they are upfront and transparent about their intension unlike RDPD who baits and switches.
@Constance Kang well you discovered how many of the most expensive REI instructors work in this industry. I believe many contract out to the same sales company to deliver there pitches.
I am glad you picked it up and are able to describe what is happening so clearly to warn others.
I have spent a LOT of money on instructors and coaching over the years. I truly believe there is no better place to invest in than myself. However The barrier to entry in the REI teaching business is very low and a lot of bad players join the game.
What you describe led me to come up with Ned's Rule of Gurus.
The quality of an REI course is inversely proportional to the price
It makes you wonder if Kiyosaki warns you to get a financial education so you know enough not to sign up for his course. A 40k program ought to come with an ironclad guarantee that you make 6 figures by year 2 (and aren't doing something illegal/unethical) to be even minimally reasonable. It's too bad his books (and the Advisor Series) are quite good but he partners with dirtbags on the backend.
I wish BP had a $2k, 3 day course and mentoring that we could send people to instead. Look if you are determined to spend your money on a course, go to the Bigger Pockets seminar! You'll actually learn useful stuff and won't be set back 5 years with an upsell.
Originally posted by @Ned Carey:
@Constance Kang well you discovered how many of the most expensive REI instructors work in this industry. I believe many contract out to the same sales company to deliver there pitches.
I am glad you picked it up and are able to describe what is happening so clearly to warn others.
I have spent a LOT of money on instructors and coaching over the years. I truly believe there is no better place to invest in than myself. However The barrier to entry in the REI teaching business is very low and a lot of bad players join the game.
What you describe led me to come up with Ned's Rule of Gurus.
The quality of an REI course is inversely proportional to the price
Yes Ned indeed! I think the information is widely available and in now days, cheap to acquire; one just need to be patient enough to learn it!
Originally posted by @Andrew Ware:
It makes you wonder if Kiyosaki warns you to get a financial education so you know enough not to sign up for his course. A 40k program ought to come with an ironclad guarantee that you make 6 figures by year 2 (and aren't doing something illegal/unethical) to be even minimally reasonable. It's too bad his books (and the Advisor Series) are quite good but he partners with dirtbags on the backend.
I wish BP had a $2k, 3 day course and mentoring that we could send people to instead. Look if you are determined to spend your money on a course, go to the Bigger Pockets seminar! You'll actually learn useful stuff and won't be set back 5 years with an upsell.
I'm not sure if it's a separate company or the same company with different entity; after all, I'm less respectful for Kiyosaki. Even he just leases out his "RDPD" brand, an ethical entrepreneur wouldn't partner with a scam team!
Originally posted by @Andrew Ware:
I wish BP had a $2k, 3 day course and mentoring that we could send people to instead. Look if you are determined to spend your money on a course, go to the Bigger Pockets seminar! You'll actually learn useful stuff and won't be set back 5 years with an upsell.
There's a Summit in Oakland CA at the end of August where there's a ton of speakers that post on BP, but it's not an official BP event.
I attended the same 3 day workshop as you. I completely agree with you 100% that it's a scam.
I "signed up" for the class just to see the entire process, but I delayed my deposit and any other funds for a few days to figure out all of their angles.
I picked up on a few things myself:
1) The Fortune 500 cover and article that our mentor "Jason" mentioned on Day 1 was to establish his credibility. I went home to look things over. It's the May 30, 2005 edition. It does look like our instructor (I couldn't clearly make it out b/c I can't find an enhanced picture anywhere).
At the end of the 3 day workshop, our instructor gave us all his contact info: JaYEson Jones@legacyeducation
2) An aggressive representative told each of us individually to lie about our earned annual income.
Some people were told to lie by more than 2x the actual income, even though the person didn't have a job and massive student loan debt.
3) I looked into the proprietary network that has 29k members; it was quite odd how 99% of all message posts received 0 responses. Most of the profiles didn't even have a picture or any sort of activities.
These are probably dummy accounts.
4) If you look at Robert Kiyosaki's wikipedia (Criticism & controversy section), it mentions a similar company to Legacy. The CBC video (think of it as a Canadian Dateline show) is found in the link below (22 min video) but well worth the time to watch. It explains why this was a Legacy Events seminar and not a Rich Dad Poor Dad seminar (the reason why we all signed up for the 3 days & Legacy package in the 1st place).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kiyosaki
http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/episodes/2010-episodes/road-to-rich-dad
For the same reasons as Constance, I am writing this to hopefully help other people who are not as savvy to these highly manipulative tactics. It will take most people years to recover from a $40k financial loss because of these sort of scams. It's downright disgusting.
Constance - I've reached out to 6 people who have signed up for the "advanced" classes. They all are in the process of cancelling. If you happen to have anyone else's contact from that class, please feel free to pass along my contact before it's too late.
Originally posted by @Raymond Lee:
I attended the same 3 day workshop as you. I completely agree with you 100% that it's a scam.
I "signed up" for the class just to see the entire process, but I delayed my deposit and any other funds for a few days to figure out all of their angles.
I picked up on a few things myself:
1) The Fortune 500 cover and article that our mentor "Jason" mentioned on Day 1 was to establish his credibility. I went home to look things over. It's the May 30, 2005 edition. It does look like our instructor (I couldn't clearly make it out b/c I can't find an enhanced picture anywhere).
At the end of the 3 day workshop, our instructor gave us all his contact info: JaYEson Jones@legacyeducation
2) An aggressive representative told each of us individually to lie about our earned annual income.
Some people were told to lie by more than 2x the actual income, even though the person didn't have a job and massive student loan debt.
3) I looked into the proprietary network that has 29k members; it was quite odd how 99% of all message posts received 0 responses. Most of the profiles didn't even have a picture or any sort of activities.
These are probably dummy accounts.
4) If you look at Robert Kiyosaki's wikipedia (Criticism & controversy section), it mentions a similar company to Legacy. The CBC video (think of it as a Canadian Dateline show) is found in the link below (22 min video) but well worth the time to watch. It explains why this was a Legacy Events seminar and not a Rich Dad Poor Dad seminar (the reason why we all signed up for the 3 days & Legacy package in the 1st place).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kiyosaki
http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/episodes/2010-episodes/road-to-rich-dad
For the same reasons as Constance, I am writing this to hopefully help other people who are not as savvy to these highly manipulative tactics. It will take most people years to recover from a $40k financial loss because of these sort of scams. It's downright disgusting.
Constance - I've reached out to 6 people who have signed up for the "advanced" classes. They all are in the process of cancelling. If you happen to have anyone else's contact from that class, please feel free to pass along my contact before it's too late.
Raymond, that's a great news! I'll let whoever contact me know about this! Thanks for sharing!
The people who star in Flip or Flop on HGTV do the same thing. They prey on people as well. Same 40k BS sales pitch. Shady people.
I would venture to guess that Kiyosaki has made much more money from books, board games, and licensing his "Rich Dad" brand than he ever did in real estate. It makes me think of that old saying "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach."
I like a lot of his ideas in Rich Dad Poor Dad, but there is definitely a "salesy" feeling that I get when reading material either written by him or endorsed by him. They are always going for the upsell.
OMG that Wikipedia tho. Don't they take down pages that are clearly press releases or, in this case, a summary of all of his books? Wow.
Thank you, Constance, for sharing your experience.
- As you know, I was the student who asked the "trainer" to demonstrate the case on third day.
Yes, I attended the 3-day event last week in New York. I didn't sign up for the advance courses. For people who are still confused about the courses, my suggestion is "Think before you do". They told you they would offer you some discounts and let you join the online group which they created on the last day.
If the program does worth it, what you will lose is only 299$ that you pay for the 3 days event because you can always attend the event again and pay 299$ to get the discount. ( I believe you won't do it after you calm down and see the BiggerPockets website.) However, if you sign up for it, what you can lose will be 16K-51$ !!!!
Please be careful. Think before you do, and do some research. You can make the right decision.
Constance, I think this discussion will be kept. What those "trainer" can do is just hire people to write some fake reviews.
Thank you, BiggerPockets.
Originally posted by @Andrew Ware:
It makes you wonder if Kiyosaki warns you to get a financial education so you know enough not to sign up for his course. A 40k program ought to come with an ironclad guarantee that you make 6 figures by year 2 (and aren't doing something illegal/unethical) to be even minimally reasonable. It's too bad his books (and the Advisor Series) are quite good but he partners with dirtbags on the backend.
I wish BP had a $2k, 3 day course and mentoring that we could send people to instead. Look if you are determined to spend your money on a course, go to the Bigger Pockets seminar! You'll actually learn useful stuff and won't be set back 5 years with an upsell.
How 'bout $2K for eleven 8-hour on-line classes, access for life including all updates and additions?
David J Dachtera
Originally posted by @Raymond Lee:
"I've reached out to 6 people who have signed up for the "advanced" classes. They all are in the process of cancelling. If you happen to have anyone else's contact from that class, please feel free to pass along my contact before it's too late."
I am glad to know that. I think I might talk to you during the class.
Thank you for your help to let people know what exactly this event is.
That is interesting that people praise Rich Dad Poor Dad for its genuine message: to first acquire financial aptitude; however, on the flip side of the coin, my observation leads me to believe that the BP community views Kiyosaki's teachings as sale-like by pushing his products/classes.
Nonetheless, does anyone have advice for a newbie who wants to acquire more knowledge about the industry? Is it worth my time to attend these seminars? How would I know if these seminars are legit?