Is Pace Morby a Scam?

[David Hori]

I've been vetting gurus to determine where an investment would return the greatest ROI. Many gurus dangle their network, trainings and resources but few deliver real value. Fewer still actually show-up to deliver the value in-person.

Pace was the only one I encountered who showed up live, who is living these deals out every day and consistently finding ways to deliver (increasing) value to his community. The quality of people in his community is exceptional - yes there are world class experts, yes they hustle and are brilliant. But what's most compelling is that he's managed to curate a group of people who also care for each other and care about HOW they conduct business. They're not out to just make money, but take care of homeowners, business owners, partners, etc and their well-being. 

Real estate investing wasn't on my radar - my focus is business acquisition, but once I encountered the Subto community and saw for myself how much they were willing to extend to me for free, I had complete confidence in making the investment.

Peace of mind with such an investment does not come cheap for me... I lost my job in July. I'm living off of cash reserves and burning through it - there is a well dry date looming on the horizon. I'm confident in the value that Pace is creating and what the Subto Community is delivering every day.

[Nate Marshall]

Quote from @Tyler Gassman:

Member of the community here. All I can say is I wish I'd saved my money. Sales team is dishonest, multiple people get stolen from by members in the community every single week. There is no refund if you change your mind. If you're on the fence, don't jump over. It is well and truly a scam, and the only "value" he delivers is in the form of teaching you to manipulate vulnerable people to act against their own best interests. Just like the sales team has been taught to get you to do when they are selling you this course. 

Yep. As many people have stated. 

[Account Closed]

Quote from @David Hori:

@Account Closed - I'll let you decide if paying out of my savings is better or worse than putting it on my credit card. Believe me, if I don't have tangible ($) value in the next 6 months from Pace and his program, you'll be the first to know and I'll update this. I do feel confident in the value he has delivered to-date and have line of sight on it creating monetary value. Stay tuned!

Well @David Hori: it's been 6 months. How's progress with the Pace Morby program. Have you bought any properties yet?

Do you have a word of encouragement for the people that are now popping up and saying they bought into it and regret it?

Maybe you can start here:

Pace Morby Mentorship

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/79/topics/1001612-pace-...

[Nate Marshall]

Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @David Hori:

@Account Closed - I'll let you decide if paying out of my savings is better or worse than putting it on my credit card. Believe me, if I don't have tangible ($) value in the next 6 months from Pace and his program, you'll be the first to know and I'll update this. I do feel confident in the value he has delivered to-date and have line of sight on it creating monetary value. Stay tuned!

Well @David Hori: it's been 6 months. How's progress with the Pace Morby program. Have you bought any properties yet?

Do you have a word of encouragement for the people that are now popping up and saying they bought into it and regret it?

Maybe you can start here:

Pace Morby Mentorship

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/79/topics/1001612-pace-...

 Regretting joining anything to do with Pace is becoming a thing! 

[Pierce B.]

THE ONLY QUESTION ANY OF YOU NEED TO FIND OUT IS: How much are they charging you for the training? IF IT'S ANYTHING IT'S A SCAM BECAUSE THEY'D BE MAKING SO MUCH MONEY THEY'D NEVER THINK ABOUT TELLING YOU ABOUT IT.

WHEN THE NUMBER IS $3000, $6000, $8000, OR $10,000 DOLLARS---- then it is ALL COMPLETELY WORTHLESS FOUND IN BOOKS OR IF YOU CALLED PEOPLE YOU KNOW IN THE BUSINESS (LIKE REAL ESTATE AGENTS).

NONE OF IT'S EASY. AND THEY CAN SCREAM EASY AT THE TOP OF THEIR LUNGS IF THEY WANT.

BUT GO AND CONVINCE YOUR NEAREST RELATIVE TO SELL THEIR LARGEST ASSET WITH YOU AT ONLY A 5% MARK UP AND YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW REAL ESTATE EXCHANGES WORK. 

OH WAIT YOU'LL LEARN THAT IN THE SYSTEM. IT DOESN'T COST 10K TO GET A REAL ESTATE LICENSE.

[Nate Marshall]

Quote from @Pierce B.:

THE ONLY QUESTION ANY OF YOU NEED TO FIND OUT IS: How much are they charging you for the training? IF IT'S ANYTHING IT'S A SCAM BECAUSE THEY'D BE MAKING SO MUCH MONEY THEY'D NEVER THINK ABOUT TELLING YOU ABOUT IT.

WHEN THE NUMBER IS $3000, $6000, $8000, OR $10,000 DOLLARS---- then it is ALL COMPLETELY WORTHLESS FOUND IN BOOKS OR IF YOU CALLED PEOPLE YOU KNOW IN THE BUSINESS (LIKE REAL ESTATE AGENTS).

NONE OF IT'S EASY. AND THEY CAN SCREAM EASY AT THE TOP OF THEIR LUNGS IF THEY WANT.

BUT GO AND CONVINCE YOUR NEAREST RELATIVE TO SELL THEIR LARGEST ASSET WITH YOU AT ONLY A 5% MARK UP AND YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW REAL ESTATE EXCHANGES WORK. 

OH WAIT YOU'LL LEARN THAT IN THE SYSTEM. IT DOESN'T COST 10K TO GET A REAL ESTATE LICENSE.

 All caps is kind of loud but you make valid points. 

[Nida Kazmi]

Quote from @David Hori:

@Account Closed - I'll let you decide if paying out of my savings is better or worse than putting it on my credit card. Believe me, if I don't have tangible ($) value in the next 6 months from Pace and his program, you'll be the first to know and I'll update this. I do feel confident in the value he has delivered to-date and have line of sight on it creating monetary value. Stay tuned!

 @Account Closed would you have updates now that its been 7 months, what's your experience of being in Pace's program?

[Account Closed]

Quote from @Nida Kazmi:

Quote from @David Hori:

@Account Closed - I'll let you decide if paying out of my savings is better or worse than putting it on my credit card. Believe me, if I don't have tangible ($) value in the next 6 months from Pace and his program, you'll be the first to know and I'll update this. I do feel confident in the value he has delivered to-date and have line of sight on it creating monetary value. Stay tuned!

 @Account Closed would you have updates now that its been 7 months, what's your experience of being in Pace's program?

You misunderstand. I would never join Pace Morby's group. His information is faulty, his approach is to "overleverage", "zero down" and in my opinion the information he leaves out is either lack of experience on his part or intentional deception, neither of which I am willing to be associated with.

He leaves out very important information, like what my buddy recently posted at 

Using Subject To, to Get "Free" Properties - A Quick Guideline

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/1188416-usin...

We teach even the downside of Subject To and how to avoid the pitfalls. You have to be an accredited investor to be trained by us. That means you have enough money to do these safely.

I’m sure he's an enthusiastic and nice guy, most of his ilk are. But that doesn't keep the regulators away. By contrast, we just teach “stick to good underwriting, using title reports and escrow and having sufficient capital to make sure the seller is cared for”. Very conservative approach that protects the seller.

There is a long thread that covers what I'm talking about at

Pace Morby Mentorship

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/79/topics/1001612-pace-...

[Jay Hinrichs]

Quote from @Joe S.:

Quote from @Nate Marshall:

Quote from @Brian Vallario:

"Those who can't do, teach" is a dumb and misquoted phrase, but if the teacher is selling classes via instagram, I would seriously ask myself why. If you're really making moves in the market, it's unlikely you're also slinging how-to's over social media. Buy a used book and find someone local who's doing the thing, and make them your mentor. Also, the whole SubTo model is a bit icky and can often get messy from what I've seen. It appeals to desperation on both sides of the transaction, which also makes it a great online class to sell... While we need massive reform in lending and solutions for home affordability, that ain't it.

 We neeed licensing for wholesalers as well as the banking and mortgage industry to start calling more notes due. They can do this by getting information and the identities of the subto students and gurus so they can program software to catch these. 

So you and I agree on a lot of stuff… However, I do want to clarify that I am not against Sub2 if done respectably in the right situation.

I see where Sub2 can and has been a good tool in the right hands.

 One of my grips is that Pace is  getting groupies all excited and is making a method that could be used Respectfully in the right situation look bad for promoting it heavily among noobs.  There are risk so to gloss over those risk for the sake of selling mentorships is concerning.

exactly Joe..  we can use the Gun analogy.. Guns done kill  people do.. well sub 2 does not kill sellers the people that do sub 2 with bad intent with not enough money etc etc they are the ones killing the sellers the sub 2 is just the vehicle that led to financial mortality for sellers in a sub 2 gone bad scenario.. and U cant have thousands of students who you know for certain have neither the capital or character to pull these off safely for the Seller.. I personally could give a rip about the buyers safety if they dont know any better and get wiped out so what.. but Sellers thats a whole different matter.. a sub 2 gone bad can destroy them financially emotionally physically break up marriages etc etc.

[Chris Seveney]

@Jay Hinrichs

There was a post in the fb group where the sellers realtor was trying to give advice to the seller on the reasons they should sell sub to.

I made a comment that I wish finra could see a realtor trying to provide financial advice to an elderly seller

This is where things are gonna go wrong quick. When realtors who also want to be creative financing gurus start giving awful advice.

Another post someone made a comment about how “he can help the seller avoid foreclosure”

These types of predatory messages also can get you in deep hot water as they have no intention of helping they just want the house at a discount

[Nida Kazmi]

@Account Closed

[Nida Kazmi]

Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @Nida Kazmi:

Quote from @David Hori:

@Account Closed - I'll let you decide if paying out of my savings is better or worse than putting it on my credit card. Believe me, if I don't have tangible ($) value in the next 6 months from Pace and his program, you'll be the first to know and I'll update this. I do feel confident in the value he has delivered to-date and have line of sight on it creating monetary value. Stay tuned!

 @Account Closed would you have updates now that its been 7 months, what's your experience of being in Pace's program?

You misunderstand. I would never join Pace Morby's group. His information is faulty, his approach is to "overleverage", "zero down" and in my opinion the information he leaves out is either lack of experience on his part or intentional deception, neither of which I am willing to be associated with.

He leaves out very important information, like what my buddy recently posted at 

Using Subject To, to Get "Free" Properties - A Quick Guideline

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/1188416-usin...

We teach even the downside of Subject To and how to avoid the pitfalls. You have to be an accredited investor to be trained by us. That means you have enough money to do these safely.

I’m sure he's an enthusiastic and nice guy, most of his ilk are. But that doesn't keep the regulators away. By contrast, we just teach “stick to good underwriting, using title reports and escrow and having sufficient capital to make sure the seller is cared for”. Very conservative approach that protects the seller.

There is a long thread that covers what I'm talking about at

Pace Morby Mentorship

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/79/topics/1001612-pace-...

 p.s. I am accredited. I don't buy into most any program nowadays or Coaching and other bs. I would still value a mentor, who knows what they're doing. But most of these programs are the usual circle jerk. 

[Account Closed]

Quote from @Nida Kazmi:

@Account Closed my bad, I meant to tag @David Hori

No worries. I've simply researched Pace Morby and report what I've found.

[Account Closed]

Quote from @Nida Kazmi:

Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @Nida Kazmi:

Quote from @David Hori:

@Account Closed - I'll let you decide if paying out of my savings is better or worse than putting it on my credit card. Believe me, if I don't have tangible ($) value in the next 6 months from Pace and his program, you'll be the first to know and I'll update this. I do feel confident in the value he has delivered to-date and have line of sight on it creating monetary value. Stay tuned!

 @Account Closed would you have updates now that its been 7 months, what's your experience of being in Pace's program?

You misunderstand. I would never join Pace Morby's group. His information is faulty, his approach is to "overleverage", "zero down" and in my opinion the information he leaves out is either lack of experience on his part or intentional deception, neither of which I am willing to be associated with.

He leaves out very important information, like what my buddy recently posted at 

Using Subject To, to Get "Free" Properties - A Quick Guideline

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/1188416-usin...

We teach even the downside of Subject To and how to avoid the pitfalls. You have to be an accredited investor to be trained by us. That means you have enough money to do these safely.

I’m sure he's an enthusiastic and nice guy, most of his ilk are. But that doesn't keep the regulators away. By contrast, we just teach “stick to good underwriting, using title reports and escrow and having sufficient capital to make sure the seller is cared for”. Very conservative approach that protects the seller.

There is a long thread that covers what I'm talking about at

Pace Morby Mentorship

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/79/topics/1001612-pace-...

 p.s. I am accredited. I don't buy into most any program nowadays or Coaching and other bs. I would still value a mentor, who knows what they're doing. But most of these programs are the usual circle jerk. 

You might want to take a look at our "one on one" and see if it's to your liking.https://housecashaz.com/cash-flowing-decent-houses-for-sale-...

[Nida Kazmi]

Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @Nida Kazmi:

Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @Nida Kazmi:

Quote from @David Hori:

@Account Closed - I'll let you decide if paying out of my savings is better or worse than putting it on my credit card. Believe me, if I don't have tangible ($) value in the next 6 months from Pace and his program, you'll be the first to know and I'll update this. I do feel confident in the value he has delivered to-date and have line of sight on it creating monetary value. Stay tuned!

 @Account Closed would you have updates now that its been 7 months, what's your experience of being in Pace's program?

You misunderstand. I would never join Pace Morby's group. His information is faulty, his approach is to "overleverage", "zero down" and in my opinion the information he leaves out is either lack of experience on his part or intentional deception, neither of which I am willing to be associated with.

He leaves out very important information, like what my buddy recently posted at 

Using Subject To, to Get "Free" Properties - A Quick Guideline

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/1188416-usin...

We teach even the downside of Subject To and how to avoid the pitfalls. You have to be an accredited investor to be trained by us. That means you have enough money to do these safely.

I’m sure he's an enthusiastic and nice guy, most of his ilk are. But that doesn't keep the regulators away. By contrast, we just teach “stick to good underwriting, using title reports and escrow and having sufficient capital to make sure the seller is cared for”. Very conservative approach that protects the seller.

There is a long thread that covers what I'm talking about at

Pace Morby Mentorship

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/79/topics/1001612-pace-...

 p.s. I am accredited. I don't buy into most any program nowadays or Coaching and other bs. I would still value a mentor, who knows what they're doing. But most of these programs are the usual circle jerk. 

@Nida Kazmi: My buddy @Mike Hern mentors people "one on one" and doesn't want to be mistaken for doing things like Pace Morby. It's not personal towards you. He's a great coach and plays "friendly". Full disclosure, he and I work together, so anything I say is biased and comes from 30 years of investing. :-)

 It'll be ok lol. I didn't take anything personally. 

[Jay Hinrichs]

Quote from @Nida Kazmi:

Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @Nida Kazmi:

Quote from @David Hori:

@Account Closed - I'll let you decide if paying out of my savings is better or worse than putting it on my credit card. Believe me, if I don't have tangible ($) value in the next 6 months from Pace and his program, you'll be the first to know and I'll update this. I do feel confident in the value he has delivered to-date and have line of sight on it creating monetary value. Stay tuned!

 @Account Closed would you have updates now that its been 7 months, what's your experience of being in Pace's program?

You misunderstand. I would never join Pace Morby's group. His information is faulty, his approach is to "overleverage", "zero down" and in my opinion the information he leaves out is either lack of experience on his part or intentional deception, neither of which I am willing to be associated with.

He leaves out very important information, like what my buddy recently posted at 

Using Subject To, to Get "Free" Properties - A Quick Guideline

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/1188416-usin...

We teach even the downside of Subject To and how to avoid the pitfalls. You have to be an accredited investor to be trained by us. That means you have enough money to do these safely.

I’m sure he's an enthusiastic and nice guy, most of his ilk are. But that doesn't keep the regulators away. By contrast, we just teach “stick to good underwriting, using title reports and escrow and having sufficient capital to make sure the seller is cared for”. Very conservative approach that protects the seller.

There is a long thread that covers what I'm talking about at

Pace Morby Mentorship

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/79/topics/1001612-pace-...

 p.s. I am accredited. I don't buy into most any program nowadays or Coaching and other bs. I would still value a mentor, who knows what they're doing. But most of these programs are the usual circle jerk. 

Nida,  as an accredited investor I have to think your smart enough to understand how this works with some simple reading on the subject..  Its really not that complicated for the buyer there is no voodoo to this process of acquiring a property..  The real risks are to the seller.. And if you are not in a position to refi quickly or cash out the loan then you too take on a risk.. thats it thats the whole enchilada when it comes to sub 2. Everything else is just trying to hide the fact you did the transaction from the lender.  And folks that need to do that dont have the capacity to deal with a loan that has been called and a seller that is madder than a wet hornet if you goof up their credit.

Then the other major issue glossed over by everyone is there is a minute amount of sellers that will even entertain these transactions and most of the time your paying a premium for the asset. Unless you spend money trying to find off market deals.. Lots of time involved and educating the seller why to do this for you..  95% of sellers if they ask their attorney for advice will be given advice do not do this.

So thats the reality from my point of view I made a business out of this for many years and my dad made a business out of this in the 70s through the 80s so lots of experience at it.  Just understand that there are two sides to these transactions. And reality no matter who is teaching you.. The internet books  Morby the sub 2 guys the market for this is quite thin.

U do not become an accredited Investor without having some good smarts. Congrats on that.

[Chris Seveney]

Quote from @Nida Kazmi:

Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @Nida Kazmi:

Quote from @David Hori:

@Account Closed - I'll let you decide if paying out of my savings is better or worse than putting it on my credit card. Believe me, if I don't have tangible ($) value in the next 6 months from Pace and his program, you'll be the first to know and I'll update this. I do feel confident in the value he has delivered to-date and have line of sight on it creating monetary value. Stay tuned!

 @Account Closed would you have updates now that its been 7 months, what's your experience of being in Pace's program?

You misunderstand. I would never join Pace Morby's group. His information is faulty, his approach is to "overleverage", "zero down" and in my opinion the information he leaves out is either lack of experience on his part or intentional deception, neither of which I am willing to be associated with.

He leaves out very important information, like what my buddy recently posted at 

Using Subject To, to Get "Free" Properties - A Quick Guideline

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/1188416-usin...

We teach even the downside of Subject To and how to avoid the pitfalls. You have to be an accredited investor to be trained by us. That means you have enough money to do these safely.

I’m sure he's an enthusiastic and nice guy, most of his ilk are. But that doesn't keep the regulators away. By contrast, we just teach “stick to good underwriting, using title reports and escrow and having sufficient capital to make sure the seller is cared for”. Very conservative approach that protects the seller.

There is a long thread that covers what I'm talking about at

Pace Morby Mentorship

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/79/topics/1001612-pace-...

 p.s. I am accredited. I don't buy into most any program nowadays or Coaching and other bs. I would still value a mentor, who knows what they're doing. But most of these programs are the usual circle jerk. 

 comment of the year, as I agree - you go on many of these facebook groups and I shake my head at the amount of kool-aid people drink, and would have used the same term you used but thought it probably not as PC for me to say it. 

[Doug Smith]

Yes

[Brian Jackson]

He is a great speaker and salesmen of his product, that is for sure!

[Nida Kazmi]

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Nida Kazmi:

Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @Nida Kazmi:

Quote from @David Hori:

@Account Closed - I'll let you decide if paying out of my savings is better or worse than putting it on my credit card. Believe me, if I don't have tangible ($) value in the next 6 months from Pace and his program, you'll be the first to know and I'll update this. I do feel confident in the value he has delivered to-date and have line of sight on it creating monetary value. Stay tuned!

 @Account Closed would you have updates now that its been 7 months, what's your experience of being in Pace's program?

You misunderstand. I would never join Pace Morby's group. His information is faulty, his approach is to "overleverage", "zero down" and in my opinion the information he leaves out is either lack of experience on his part or intentional deception, neither of which I am willing to be associated with.

He leaves out very important information, like what my buddy recently posted at 

Using Subject To, to Get "Free" Properties - A Quick Guideline

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/1188416-usin...

We teach even the downside of Subject To and how to avoid the pitfalls. You have to be an accredited investor to be trained by us. That means you have enough money to do these safely.

I’m sure he's an enthusiastic and nice guy, most of his ilk are. But that doesn't keep the regulators away. By contrast, we just teach “stick to good underwriting, using title reports and escrow and having sufficient capital to make sure the seller is cared for”. Very conservative approach that protects the seller.

There is a long thread that covers what I'm talking about at

Pace Morby Mentorship

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/79/topics/1001612-pace-...

 p.s. I am accredited. I don't buy into most any program nowadays or Coaching and other bs. I would still value a mentor, who knows what they're doing. But most of these programs are the usual circle jerk. 

Nida,  as an accredited investor I have to think your smart enough to understand how this works with some simple reading on the subject..  Its really not that complicated for the buyer there is no voodoo to this process of acquiring a property..  The real risks are to the seller.. And if you are not in a position to refi quickly or cash out the loan then you too take on a risk.. thats it thats the whole enchilada when it comes to sub 2. Everything else is just trying to hide the fact you did the transaction from the lender.  And folks that need to do that dont have the capacity to deal with a loan that has been called and a seller that is madder than a wet hornet if you goof up their credit.

Then the other major issue glossed over by everyone is there is a minute amount of sellers that will even entertain these transactions and most of the time your paying a premium for the asset. Unless you spend money trying to find off market deals.. Lots of time involved and educating the seller why to do this for you..  95% of sellers if they ask their attorney for advice will be given advice do not do this.

So thats the reality from my point of view I made a business out of this for many years and my dad made a business out of this in the 70s through the 80s so lots of experience at it.  Just understand that there are two sides to these transactions. And reality no matter who is teaching you.. The internet books  Morby the sub 2 guys the market for this is quite thin.

U do not become an accredited Investor without having some good smarts. Congrats on that.

Thank you and right you are. I am completely self taught intentionally. I wanted to be absolutely sure I had complete agency and that I knew how to perform my own analysis over various situations. And I largely ask questions now (admittedly, posing as a novice) to keep up with the new BS. For example, whole life insurance has at least 5 different terms associated with it now. But it's still...whole life insurance. I had a friend arguing with me yesterday Pace's program has high value. So I dug in. It was a fun 30 seconds 😂

[Justin Buswell]

Quote from @Nida Kazmi:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Nida Kazmi:

Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @Nida Kazmi:

Quote from @David Hori:

@Account Closed - I'll let you decide if paying out of my savings is better or worse than putting it on my credit card. Believe me, if I don't have tangible ($) value in the next 6 months from Pace and his program, you'll be the first to know and I'll update this. I do feel confident in the value he has delivered to-date and have line of sight on it creating monetary value. Stay tuned!

 @Account Closed would you have updates now that its been 7 months, what's your experience of being in Pace's program?

You misunderstand. I would never join Pace Morby's group. His information is faulty, his approach is to "overleverage", "zero down" and in my opinion the information he leaves out is either lack of experience on his part or intentional deception, neither of which I am willing to be associated with.

He leaves out very important information, like what my buddy recently posted at 

Using Subject To, to Get "Free" Properties - A Quick Guideline

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/1188416-usin...

We teach even the downside of Subject To and how to avoid the pitfalls. You have to be an accredited investor to be trained by us. That means you have enough money to do these safely.

I’m sure he's an enthusiastic and nice guy, most of his ilk are. But that doesn't keep the regulators away. By contrast, we just teach “stick to good underwriting, using title reports and escrow and having sufficient capital to make sure the seller is cared for”. Very conservative approach that protects the seller.

There is a long thread that covers what I'm talking about at

Pace Morby Mentorship

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/79/topics/1001612-pace-...

 p.s. I am accredited. I don't buy into most any program nowadays or Coaching and other bs. I would still value a mentor, who knows what they're doing. But most of these programs are the usual circle jerk. 

Nida,  as an accredited investor I have to think your smart enough to understand how this works with some simple reading on the subject..  Its really not that complicated for the buyer there is no voodoo to this process of acquiring a property..  The real risks are to the seller.. And if you are not in a position to refi quickly or cash out the loan then you too take on a risk.. thats it thats the whole enchilada when it comes to sub 2. Everything else is just trying to hide the fact you did the transaction from the lender.  And folks that need to do that dont have the capacity to deal with a loan that has been called and a seller that is madder than a wet hornet if you goof up their credit.

Then the other major issue glossed over by everyone is there is a minute amount of sellers that will even entertain these transactions and most of the time your paying a premium for the asset. Unless you spend money trying to find off market deals.. Lots of time involved and educating the seller why to do this for you..  95% of sellers if they ask their attorney for advice will be given advice do not do this.

So thats the reality from my point of view I made a business out of this for many years and my dad made a business out of this in the 70s through the 80s so lots of experience at it.  Just understand that there are two sides to these transactions. And reality no matter who is teaching you.. The internet books  Morby the sub 2 guys the market for this is quite thin.

U do not become an accredited Investor without having some good smarts. Congrats on that.

Thank you and right you are. I am completely self taught intentionally. I wanted to be absolutely sure I had complete agency and that I knew how to perform my own analysis over various situations. And I largely ask questions now (admittedly, posing as a novice) to keep up with the new BS. For example, whole life insurance has at least 5 different terms associated with it now. But it's still...whole life insurance. I had a friend arguing with me yesterday Pace's program has high value. So I dug in. It was a fun 30 seconds 😂

 there is certainly value in the membership.  Quantifying it is more challenging.  I don't know what it costs now, but it was $9k when I joined.  It's been WELL worth that to me.  My business which owes some thanks to the program will do over $50K this month.  

That said it is way oversold and there is a lot of dark side as well.

[Nida Kazmi]

Quote from @Justin Buswell:

 there is certainly value in the membership.  Quantifying it is more challenging.  I don't know what it costs now, but it was $9k when I joined.  It's been WELL worth that to me.  My business which owes some thanks to the program will do over $50K this month.  

That said it is way oversold and there is a lot of dark side as well.

If I remember correctly, its double that now. Insane. 

[Jay Hinrichs]

Quote from @Justin Buswell:

Quote from @Nida Kazmi:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Nida Kazmi:

Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @Nida Kazmi:

Quote from @David Hori:

@Account Closed - I'll let you decide if paying out of my savings is better or worse than putting it on my credit card. Believe me, if I don't have tangible ($) value in the next 6 months from Pace and his program, you'll be the first to know and I'll update this. I do feel confident in the value he has delivered to-date and have line of sight on it creating monetary value. Stay tuned!

 @Account Closed would you have updates now that its been 7 months, what's your experience of being in Pace's program?

You misunderstand. I would never join Pace Morby's group. His information is faulty, his approach is to "overleverage", "zero down" and in my opinion the information he leaves out is either lack of experience on his part or intentional deception, neither of which I am willing to be associated with.

He leaves out very important information, like what my buddy recently posted at 

Using Subject To, to Get "Free" Properties - A Quick Guideline

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/1188416-usin...

We teach even the downside of Subject To and how to avoid the pitfalls. You have to be an accredited investor to be trained by us. That means you have enough money to do these safely.

I’m sure he's an enthusiastic and nice guy, most of his ilk are. But that doesn't keep the regulators away. By contrast, we just teach “stick to good underwriting, using title reports and escrow and having sufficient capital to make sure the seller is cared for”. Very conservative approach that protects the seller.

There is a long thread that covers what I'm talking about at

Pace Morby Mentorship

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/79/topics/1001612-pace-...

 p.s. I am accredited. I don't buy into most any program nowadays or Coaching and other bs. I would still value a mentor, who knows what they're doing. But most of these programs are the usual circle jerk. 

Nida,  as an accredited investor I have to think your smart enough to understand how this works with some simple reading on the subject..  Its really not that complicated for the buyer there is no voodoo to this process of acquiring a property..  The real risks are to the seller.. And if you are not in a position to refi quickly or cash out the loan then you too take on a risk.. thats it thats the whole enchilada when it comes to sub 2. Everything else is just trying to hide the fact you did the transaction from the lender.  And folks that need to do that dont have the capacity to deal with a loan that has been called and a seller that is madder than a wet hornet if you goof up their credit.

Then the other major issue glossed over by everyone is there is a minute amount of sellers that will even entertain these transactions and most of the time your paying a premium for the asset. Unless you spend money trying to find off market deals.. Lots of time involved and educating the seller why to do this for you..  95% of sellers if they ask their attorney for advice will be given advice do not do this.

So thats the reality from my point of view I made a business out of this for many years and my dad made a business out of this in the 70s through the 80s so lots of experience at it.  Just understand that there are two sides to these transactions. And reality no matter who is teaching you.. The internet books  Morby the sub 2 guys the market for this is quite thin.

U do not become an accredited Investor without having some good smarts. Congrats on that.

Thank you and right you are. I am completely self taught intentionally. I wanted to be absolutely sure I had complete agency and that I knew how to perform my own analysis over various situations. And I largely ask questions now (admittedly, posing as a novice) to keep up with the new BS. For example, whole life insurance has at least 5 different terms associated with it now. But it's still...whole life insurance. I had a friend arguing with me yesterday Pace's program has high value. So I dug in. It was a fun 30 seconds 😂

 there is certainly value in the membership.  Quantifying it is more challenging.  I don't know what it costs now, but it was $9k when I joined.  It's been WELL worth that to me.  My business which owes some thanks to the program will do over $50K this month.  

That said it is way oversold and there is a lot of dark side as well.

thats a great point over sold.  There is only a small fraction of transactions in the US go sub 2 Just like those that teach wholesaling there is only so much beat up houses to go around.. And like everything RE sales related 10 to 15% do 80 to 90% of the deals.. so we know going in that 80% at least of those that buy these courses simply do nothing with it.

[Justin Buswell]

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Justin Buswell:

Quote from @Nida Kazmi:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Nida Kazmi:

Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @Nida Kazmi:

Quote from @David Hori:

@Account Closed - I'll let you decide if paying out of my savings is better or worse than putting it on my credit card. Believe me, if I don't have tangible ($) value in the next 6 months from Pace and his program, you'll be the first to know and I'll update this. I do feel confident in the value he has delivered to-date and have line of sight on it creating monetary value. Stay tuned!

 @Account Closed would you have updates now that its been 7 months, what's your experience of being in Pace's program?

You misunderstand. I would never join Pace Morby's group. His information is faulty, his approach is to "overleverage", "zero down" and in my opinion the information he leaves out is either lack of experience on his part or intentional deception, neither of which I am willing to be associated with.

He leaves out very important information, like what my buddy recently posted at 

Using Subject To, to Get "Free" Properties - A Quick Guideline

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/1188416-usin...

We teach even the downside of Subject To and how to avoid the pitfalls. You have to be an accredited investor to be trained by us. That means you have enough money to do these safely.

I’m sure he's an enthusiastic and nice guy, most of his ilk are. But that doesn't keep the regulators away. By contrast, we just teach “stick to good underwriting, using title reports and escrow and having sufficient capital to make sure the seller is cared for”. Very conservative approach that protects the seller.

There is a long thread that covers what I'm talking about at

Pace Morby Mentorship

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/79/topics/1001612-pace-...

 p.s. I am accredited. I don't buy into most any program nowadays or Coaching and other bs. I would still value a mentor, who knows what they're doing. But most of these programs are the usual circle jerk. 

Nida,  as an accredited investor I have to think your smart enough to understand how this works with some simple reading on the subject..  Its really not that complicated for the buyer there is no voodoo to this process of acquiring a property..  The real risks are to the seller.. And if you are not in a position to refi quickly or cash out the loan then you too take on a risk.. thats it thats the whole enchilada when it comes to sub 2. Everything else is just trying to hide the fact you did the transaction from the lender.  And folks that need to do that dont have the capacity to deal with a loan that has been called and a seller that is madder than a wet hornet if you goof up their credit.

Then the other major issue glossed over by everyone is there is a minute amount of sellers that will even entertain these transactions and most of the time your paying a premium for the asset. Unless you spend money trying to find off market deals.. Lots of time involved and educating the seller why to do this for you..  95% of sellers if they ask their attorney for advice will be given advice do not do this.

So thats the reality from my point of view I made a business out of this for many years and my dad made a business out of this in the 70s through the 80s so lots of experience at it.  Just understand that there are two sides to these transactions. And reality no matter who is teaching you.. The internet books  Morby the sub 2 guys the market for this is quite thin.

U do not become an accredited Investor without having some good smarts. Congrats on that.

Thank you and right you are. I am completely self taught intentionally. I wanted to be absolutely sure I had complete agency and that I knew how to perform my own analysis over various situations. And I largely ask questions now (admittedly, posing as a novice) to keep up with the new BS. For example, whole life insurance has at least 5 different terms associated with it now. But it's still...whole life insurance. I had a friend arguing with me yesterday Pace's program has high value. So I dug in. It was a fun 30 seconds 😂

 there is certainly value in the membership.  Quantifying it is more challenging.  I don't know what it costs now, but it was $9k when I joined.  It's been WELL worth that to me.  My business which owes some thanks to the program will do over $50K this month.  

That said it is way oversold and there is a lot of dark side as well.

thats a great point over sold.  There is only a small fraction of transactions in the US go sub 2 Just like those that teach wholesaling there is only so much beat up houses to go around.. And like everything RE sales related 10 to 15% do 80 to 90% of the deals.. so we know going in that 80% at least of those that buy these courses simply do nothing with it.

Sub2 is just a fraction of the content. Yes, it looks cool on Instagram and sells a lot of memberships but you get in the group and find many reasons to focus on more traditional strategies right away. All the acquisition and exit strategies are covered not just Sub2. There is also business buying and more.

My impression is it's not even 80/20.  Its more like 98/2 with an additional 5% saying they do stuff so they can get a piece of someone else's hard work while they have not done anything and live in their mom's basement.

All that said there is value well over the cost for those who apply themselves to deriving the value. 

Good luck out there.  

[Nate Marshall]

Quote from @Justin Buswell:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Justin Buswell:

Quote from @Nida Kazmi:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Nida Kazmi:

Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @Nida Kazmi:

Quote from @David Hori:

@Account Closed - I'll let you decide if paying out of my savings is better or worse than putting it on my credit card. Believe me, if I don't have tangible ($) value in the next 6 months from Pace and his program, you'll be the first to know and I'll update this. I do feel confident in the value he has delivered to-date and have line of sight on it creating monetary value. Stay tuned!

 @Account Closed would you have updates now that its been 7 months, what's your experience of being in Pace's program?

You misunderstand. I would never join Pace Morby's group. His information is faulty, his approach is to "overleverage", "zero down" and in my opinion the information he leaves out is either lack of experience on his part or intentional deception, neither of which I am willing to be associated with.

He leaves out very important information, like what my buddy recently posted at 

Using Subject To, to Get "Free" Properties - A Quick Guideline

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/1188416-usin...

We teach even the downside of Subject To and how to avoid the pitfalls. You have to be an accredited investor to be trained by us. That means you have enough money to do these safely.

I’m sure he's an enthusiastic and nice guy, most of his ilk are. But that doesn't keep the regulators away. By contrast, we just teach “stick to good underwriting, using title reports and escrow and having sufficient capital to make sure the seller is cared for”. Very conservative approach that protects the seller.

There is a long thread that covers what I'm talking about at

Pace Morby Mentorship

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/79/topics/1001612-pace-...

 p.s. I am accredited. I don't buy into most any program nowadays or Coaching and other bs. I would still value a mentor, who knows what they're doing. But most of these programs are the usual circle jerk. 

Nida,  as an accredited investor I have to think your smart enough to understand how this works with some simple reading on the subject..  Its really not that complicated for the buyer there is no voodoo to this process of acquiring a property..  The real risks are to the seller.. And if you are not in a position to refi quickly or cash out the loan then you too take on a risk.. thats it thats the whole enchilada when it comes to sub 2. Everything else is just trying to hide the fact you did the transaction from the lender.  And folks that need to do that dont have the capacity to deal with a loan that has been called and a seller that is madder than a wet hornet if you goof up their credit.

Then the other major issue glossed over by everyone is there is a minute amount of sellers that will even entertain these transactions and most of the time your paying a premium for the asset. Unless you spend money trying to find off market deals.. Lots of time involved and educating the seller why to do this for you..  95% of sellers if they ask their attorney for advice will be given advice do not do this.

So thats the reality from my point of view I made a business out of this for many years and my dad made a business out of this in the 70s through the 80s so lots of experience at it.  Just understand that there are two sides to these transactions. And reality no matter who is teaching you.. The internet books  Morby the sub 2 guys the market for this is quite thin.

U do not become an accredited Investor without having some good smarts. Congrats on that.

Thank you and right you are. I am completely self taught intentionally. I wanted to be absolutely sure I had complete agency and that I knew how to perform my own analysis over various situations. And I largely ask questions now (admittedly, posing as a novice) to keep up with the new BS. For example, whole life insurance has at least 5 different terms associated with it now. But it's still...whole life insurance. I had a friend arguing with me yesterday Pace's program has high value. So I dug in. It was a fun 30 seconds 😂

 there is certainly value in the membership.  Quantifying it is more challenging.  I don't know what it costs now, but it was $9k when I joined.  It's been WELL worth that to me.  My business which owes some thanks to the program will do over $50K this month.  

That said it is way oversold and there is a lot of dark side as well.

thats a great point over sold.  There is only a small fraction of transactions in the US go sub 2 Just like those that teach wholesaling there is only so much beat up houses to go around.. And like everything RE sales related 10 to 15% do 80 to 90% of the deals.. so we know going in that 80% at least of those that buy these courses simply do nothing with it.

Sub2 is just a fraction of the content. Yes, it looks cool on Instagram and sells a lot of memberships but you get in the group and find many reasons to focus on more traditional strategies right away. All the acquisition and exit strategies are covered not just Sub2. There is also business buying and more.

My impression is it's not even 80/20.  Its more like 98/2 with an additional 5% saying they do stuff so they can get a piece of someone else's hard work while they have not done anything and live in their mom's basement.

All that said there is value well over the cost for those who apply themselves to deriving the value. 

Good luck out there.  

 There is no difference between gators and hamas! Same type! 

[Juan Zavala]

Quote from @David Hori:

@Account Closed - I'll let you decide if paying out of my savings is better or worse than putting it on my credit card. Believe me, if I don't have tangible ($) value in the next 6 months from Pace and his program, you'll be the first to know and I'll update this. I do feel confident in the value he has delivered to-date and have line of sight on it creating monetary value. Stay tuned!

 Can you please update us?