AIRBNB is the NEW BRRRR and NEW Flip!

AIRBNB is the NEW BRRRR and NEW Flip!

Real Estate Agent · Louisville, KY · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

First of all, who cares about interest of x when you are bringing in 2-3-4-5-6-7X in profit? Right now we all need to be SECURING THE ASSET. Someone recently said this and I loved it "Marry the house, date the financing." Interest rates will likely get lower again sometime or another, right now we just need to focus on getting the properties that cashflow. We aren't talking small guys, we are talking big boy airbnbs sleeping at least twelve people. <---this is where the money is made!!!! (Unless you curate a completely amazing experience for everyone). The reason I think Airbnb is the NEW BRRRR and NEW FLIP is because I am a fan of this strategy. First, appraisals are coming in lower and lower each day. I practice real estate in Louisville, Kentucky and in the last two-three years I had only two appraisals come in low that we couldn't argue our way. In the past six weeks I have had FOUR. This tells us two things, that flipping is in a tough spot because appraisals are coming in low. It tells us that traditional BRRRRing is risky because more money could potentially be tied up on a long term rental. Airbnb is fine, money can get left in the deal because you get money back so much faster than traditional real estate. Which is why it is essentially a BRRRR either way, turnkey or needing work. The way Airbnb is the NEW FLIP. Hold for one year, get a T12, sell property as a functioning business and then 1031 into a more desirable asset (large multifamily or an airbnb that you, your friends, and your family can personally enjoy at a much higher rate. I love talking about this stuff, you should hear about some of my tax saving ideas. Do we need to do legal disclaimers on here that this isn't financial advice? If so, that.

I posted this in the short term rental forum, but figured I'd share on our local forum as well. 

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Scott TrenchPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
4y

BRRRRBnB for the win! 

I think there is a lot to be optimistic about in the STR space, but I think that it won't be all sunshine and daisies forever here. The cash flow is incredible right now, but that it is impacting values and driving prices up. In a recession, spending on vacation rentals will go down and people will be selling or not buying second homes and vacation homes. I fear that some of these folks will find that they are not able to sell the property for a big gain, and will have trouble managing cash flow.

Still, if you are going to do this strategy (BRRRR or Flip), I agree that STRs are a pretty good bet. They have so many exit options - they can be used as long-term rentals to protect on the downside, they are high quality assets, often in prime locations, that are likely to appreciate, and they can be refinanced or acquired with second-home mortgages. A lot to like.

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  • Scott TrenchPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    4y

    BRRRRBnB for the win! 

    I think there is a lot to be optimistic about in the STR space, but I think that it won't be all sunshine and daisies forever here. The cash flow is incredible right now, but that it is impacting values and driving prices up. In a recession, spending on vacation rentals will go down and people will be selling or not buying second homes and vacation homes. I fear that some of these folks will find that they are not able to sell the property for a big gain, and will have trouble managing cash flow.

    Still, if you are going to do this strategy (BRRRR or Flip), I agree that STRs are a pretty good bet. They have so many exit options - they can be used as long-term rentals to protect on the downside, they are high quality assets, often in prime locations, that are likely to appreciate, and they can be refinanced or acquired with second-home mortgages. A lot to like.

  • Real Estate Agent · Colorado | stan.store/JamesCarlson · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    @Rob Bergeron

    "Marry the house, date the financing." I'm going to steal that.

    I agree with you and @Scott Trench. I know in the markets I work in here in Denver and Colorado Springs, Airbnb and STRs are the last option for those wanting to cash flow. LTR investing is an appreciation/long-term play here because while rents are crazy, they haven't kept up with rising prices.

    But like Scott said, there's no guarantee that the vacation rental market will continue to do this well forever and ever. I've seen the returns go down in Colorado. That's largely a factor of prices going up, not necessarily of decreased demand for short-term rentals. I think as cities and counties continue to restrict vacation rentals in Colorado, if you can find the spots where you can do it, then you're in a market with artificially limited competition so it can be a good investment. 

    It's a bit of back and forth here -- the money's great, but not as great as it used to be, but it's still good -- but that is the nature of the market right now. It's a mixed bag. But the way I like to invest, you should buy with the long-term in mind. Buy in a good location with appreciation potential, find the best way to cash flow it right now, have a plan B and plan C and hold it for 10-15 years.  

  • Real Estate Agent · Louisville, KY · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Scott Trench:

    BRRRRBnB for the win! 

    I think there is a lot to be optimistic about in the STR space, but I think that it won't be all sunshine and daisies forever here. The cash flow is incredible right now, but that it is impacting values and driving prices up. In a recession, spending on vacation rentals will go down and people will be selling or not buying second homes and vacation homes. I fear that some of these folks will find that they are not able to sell the property for a big gain, and will have trouble managing cash flow.

    Still, if you are going to do this strategy (BRRRR or Flip), I agree that STRs are a pretty good bet. They have so many exit options - they can be used as long-term rentals to protect on the downside, they are high quality assets, often in prime locations, that are likely to appreciate, and they can be refinanced or acquired with second-home mortgages. A lot to like.

    The hedge fund out of Cleveland that raised $50 billion (or $5 billion) has the right idea. Typically, we shied away from A-B properties in our market (Louisville) because they didn't cashflow. Now, with airbnbs you typically get the A-B areas with major cashflow, win-win. 

    We are typically buying properties where we will have major equity left in the deal ($200k on last purchase and $100k on our next closing, post repairs equity). Cool thing is debt services/utilities can generally be covered by one week of bookings. We think we can float. Not to mention we don't touch profits until we wan't to recast them into another property. 
  • Real Estate Agent · Louisville, KY · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @James Carlson:

    @Rob Bergeron

    "Marry the house, date the financing." I'm going to steal that.

    I agree with you and @Scott Trench. I know in the markets I work in here in Denver and Colorado Springs, Airbnb and STRs are the last option for those wanting to cash flow. LTR investing is an appreciation/long-term play here because while rents are crazy, they haven't kept up with rising prices.

    But like Scott said, there's no guarantee that the vacation rental market will continue to do this well forever and ever. I've seen the returns go down in Colorado. That's largely a factor of prices going up, not necessarily of decreased demand for short-term rentals. I think as cities and counties continue to restrict vacation rentals in Colorado, if you can find the spots where you can do it, then you're in a market with artificially limited competition so it can be a good investment. 

    It's a bit of back and forth here -- the money's great, but not as great as it used to be, but it's still good -- but that is the nature of the market right now. It's a mixed bag. But the way I like to invest, you should buy with the long-term in mind. Buy in a good location with appreciation potential, find the best way to cash flow it right now, have a plan B and plan C and hold it for 10-15 years.  


     I also think the remote work will be increasing demand for airbnb. We all can live like nomads!

  • Rental Property Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2016 · 173 posts · 206 votes
    4y

    @Rob Bergeron BRRRRnBs are my business model, especially coupled with small multi families. I buy 2-4 units, rehab all the units, professionally design each unit as well as the shared communal spaces and rent out as short term or medium term rentals. I call them my “luxury motels” :)

  • Real Estate Agent · Louisville, KY · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Jean H.:

    @Rob Bergeron BRRRRnBs are my business model, especially coupled with small multi families. I buy 2-4 units, rehab all the units, professionally design each unit as well as the shared communal spaces and rent out as short term or medium term rentals. I call them my “luxury motels” :)


     That is dope! Our market doesn't allow us to do that for anything more than a duplex, but you can get around that with commercial and office/residential zoning. After I get the four up that I'm doing now, I'd like to start getting real weird with it all and create some lasting experiences for people. 

  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    4y

    BRRRR is a new term for an old strategy of purchasing a business, adding value, and then rolling the added value into the next one. It can be done on most any kind of business.

    There was a post last week related to an investor who purchased a property in a residential neighborhood, converted it to an STR, and was asking $100k over market value to compensate for purchasing the business.

  • Investor · Louisville, KY · Member since 2015 · 6 posts · 3 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Rob Bergeron:
    Quote from @Jean H.:

    @Rob Bergeron BRRRRnBs are my business model, especially coupled with small multi families. I buy 2-4 units, rehab all the units, professionally design each unit as well as the shared communal spaces and rent out as short term or medium term rentals. I call them my “luxury motels” :)


     That is dope! Our market doesn't allow us to do that for anything more than a duplex, but you can get around that with commercial and office/residential zoning. After I get the four up that I'm doing now, I'd like to start getting real weird with it all and create some lasting experiences for people. 

    Hey Rob,
    Thanks for all your contributions. I have two STRs on Taylorsville Lake and previously had another in Louisville. I’m somewhat hesitant to invest in more because of market saturation. Are you seeing signs of saturation inside Louisville? 
    Cody
  • Real Estate Agent · Louisville, KY · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Cody Cobb:
    Quote from @Rob Bergeron:
    Quote from @Jean H.:

    @Rob Bergeron BRRRRnBs are my business model, especially coupled with small multi families. I buy 2-4 units, rehab all the units, professionally design each unit as well as the shared communal spaces and rent out as short term or medium term rentals. I call them my “luxury motels” :)


     That is dope! Our market doesn't allow us to do that for anything more than a duplex, but you can get around that with commercial and office/residential zoning. After I get the four up that I'm doing now, I'd like to start getting real weird with it all and create some lasting experiences for people. 

    Hey Rob,
    Thanks for all your contributions. I have two STRs on Taylorsville Lake and previously had another in Louisville. I’m somewhat hesitant to invest in more because of market saturation. Are you seeing signs of saturation inside Louisville? 
    Cody

     I completely understand what your thoughts are. More Airbnbs, less revenue. I think the remote work has kind offset some of that at this time, there also is a ton of pent up demand for travel from the covid years. I'd buy outside of Jeff if unless you find something commercially zoned or office residential!

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