Replacing Lath & Plaster?

Question

Hello - I just got under contract with my first property! It's a large (4000 sqft) multifamily brick home in St. Louis. It's a "fixer upper" and not in rentable shape currently, and the kitchen and bathroom are both full-guts. Additionally, there is a lot of floor to replace. Lastly, the walls are lath and plaster, although generally speaking, they seem to be in good shape.

Since we're nearing "Full Gut" territory anyhow, I'm wondering if it's advisable to remove and replace the lath and plaster and replace with drywall. I'm also under the impression that lath and plaster does not typically have insulation and I'm very desirous of keeping energy usage down. I'd prefer to replace with drywall, but I'm just concerned it won't be worth the budget (and FWIW, the unit has very high 9'+ ceilings).

What have you guys done on your properties?

Seth Borman · Answer

If you've budgeted for replacing the electrical and plumbing then it is generally easier to gut the unit, do the MEP work, insulate and button it back up with drywall. The drywall actually isn't that expensive and most contractors prefer to replace the lath and plaster rather than try to patch it.

Jim K. · Answer

@Manzell Blakeley , this is your first property. It's big, and you're diving into significant renovation right from the start. Keep it as simple as possible. Set reachable goals. It'll be plenty of work anyway.

Mike McCarthy · Answer

Unless the plaster is delaminating, significantly falling off, or a complete cracked mess, I never pull down all the plaster and lathe. It’s a lot of work and I’d rather keep it as is.

Cracks can be fixed, holes from plumbing and electrical work can be patched. Much cheaper and easier.

Account Closed · Answer

If it's lath and plaster it's likely knob & tube as well. I just did a "gut" job where I had the service upgraded, the interior wring converted to romex and the walls for the most part sheet rocked. I bought for $160,000 and sold for $340,000 In my case the upgrades were worth while. Always run the numbers to see if that much work pays off before you decide..

Seth Borman · Answer

Off the top of my head, using Los Angeles prices, the cost to insulate and install new drywall is around $5/SF or $8,000 for a 1600 SF house. The savings on MEP is probably around 10-20% because it is much easier for them to do their work. In my market, that is $3,500 to $7,000 in savings. Door trim is like $150 per opening. Plus my main contractor refuses to patch drywall. He'd rather replace.On my most recent project I bought a newer house that didn't need to be gutted, and I had to run some wire. The guys doing the drywall repair couldn't match the existing texture and now the house has a bunch of areas where you can see that the drywall was patched. For those of you suggesting 1/4" drywall, why not use 1/2" or 5/8" drywall and no lath and plaster? Same amount of taping, mudding and sanding.

Evan Polaski · Answer

@Manzell Blakeley, STL and Cincinnati are very similar cities overall.  You are right, typically plaster walls are not insulated.  Are you talking interior or exterior walls?  Most of the time interior drywall walls are not insulated either.

Demo-ing everything to the studs will likely cost a lot more than leaving what you can.  A good drywaller will be able to patch well.  But to demo everything you are talking a couple extra dumpsters, more demo labor, more drywall material, likely similar labor.  You will likely see some savings on HVAC, plumbing and electric, since a full demo gives easier access, but typically not enough to offset the costs.  You will also likely see a shorter timeline.

You can have foam insulation blown into existing walls and just patch the holes.  If insulation is your concern, this is likely the cheaper route.

Also remember, brand new drywall throughout is very nice, but you will also have to redo all your trim work.  And new drywall almost always has nail pops that are that much more painful to see in new, fresh finish.

Renee Moomey · Answer

@Manzell Blakeley speaking from experience, removing plaster and lathe, be sure to budget in extra labor and haul away, and reinsulating. You will likely need to redo every door jam and all trim as sheet rock is considerably thinner than plaster and lathe. You would need to replace ceilings also. This will not easily keep with the integrity of the house. I would never do this on a rental. I did this for my personal home and hand routed new trim to match the original because we only did that in the worst rooms. We patched the plaster that could be saved and did a knock down plaster treatment on all new and old walls so they looked similar and it works well to camouflage patches.  If you are not planning on taking this to the studs, do not remove it.

Igor Messano · Answer

@Manzell Blakeley

It depends on truly what kind of shape it is. In my experience even when plaster is not crumbling, the walls are usually very uneven and ugly due to decades and decades of patching and painting. Depending on how nice of a condition you are going for it would require too much labor to make it look good so replacing is usually the way.

I have one MF that had old plaster walls with newer electrical installed OVER the walls through metal tubing. We rewired all of the units which required a lot of holes to run wires inside the walls, installed recessed lights, etc and then had a crew come in and laminate all of the walls with 3/8” drywall. Turned out absolutely perfect and didn’t need to remove plaster from 4000+ sqft.

Having a Sheetrock company install comes in very cheap actually. The bigger the job the cheaper the rates. If you were to do the full building it would be very cheap on a per board cost to hang, tape, mud, etc.

Gail W. · Answer

I am just finishing a rehab in a house with plaster. In a couple of places around the old chimney the plaster had fallen because the roof was leaking around the ceiling. Moisture is the enemy of plaster. The rest of the house I had a drywaller patch, but that takes more time than you would think, and the finished product was not as slick. Even so I think in my case it was much better than getting a dumpster, doing the demolition, hanging the sheet rock then having a drywaller finishing, because I didn't need to do much as far as upgrading wiring or insulation.

Replacing Lath & Plaster?

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