Permits: how important are they?

Question

Ok I know no one on here is going to tell me to break the law, so if there is something you can’t share with me on here publicly, please message me privately, but my question is about permits. How important are they to flipping and the Brrrr method. So my city seems to require permits for anything and everything...kitchen remodels, bathrooms remodels....if you make any changes period pretty much they want you to get a permit, but what kind of problems could I face in flipping or Brrrr-ing a property if I don’t get a permit for let’s say the kitchen remodel or the bathroom remodel. When I go to refinance will they check for the permits and not give value to my remodels if I didn’t pull a permit? Or will they make me get the things I did permitted in order to refinance or sell? My dad used to be a general contractor and told me not to worry too much about anything that wasn’t noticeable to the neighbors. So can anyone clear this up for me? And if I absolutely need to get permits for everything, what exactly is the process? I’m sure it differs for every place but if there is a general rule of thumb? And what does the cost look like for permits lets say for a basic kitchen remodel....I’ve heard permits can take forever to get for things so how do people do flips so fast and still manage to get permits for everything? This may be the single most annoying thing that is keeping me from really getting going on our live in flip here in Longmont Colorado. I’m scared to do anything without a permit and I’m scared to apply for a permit and find out it’s going to take forever or cost too much to be worth it. I understand the need for a permit if you are adding square footage to the house or maybe even adding a bathroom because that way a future buyer has the security of knowing the work was done right but I don’t think, but as a buyer I wouldn’t care if the person selling their house pulled a permit for their backsplash and new cabinets or island as long as it looked good and everything worked as it should. If anyone could just explain to me what they do when they Brrrr or flip and if they always pull all the permits or not that would be awesome! Please help clear this up for me! 🙏

Mindy Jensen · Answer

Hi from another fellow Longmonster.

I have live-in rehabbed one house and am in the middle of a second one in Longmont. I have found their permitting process to be very easy and the inspectors for the most part are reasonable. (There is one guy who really does not know what he's doing, but the others are great.)

The process is very easy. You go into the Building Inspection Division at 385 Kimbark. You take your plans with you and go in with an attitude of "I think I've done it right, but please help me" rather than "I know everything, just approve my permits."

The permitting process is detailed on their website: https://www.longmontcolorado.gov/departments/departments-a-d/building-inspection/permits

You tell them what you want to do, and they'll tell you if you need a permit for it. I have found them to be very accommodating and helpful - they really seem to want to let you make their city better. Other cities (like Boulder) seem to really want to prevent you from improving the houses. Sigh.

If you're doing anything with utilities, they want a permit. If you are simply replacing the tile/toilet/tub in the bathroom but keeping everything located exactly where it was before, they don't require permits.

Regarding unpermitted work, some agents will allow their buyers to purchase a home with unpermitted work, but others will insist you, the seller, get the work permitted after the fact. When you do work in 2020, you are held the the 2020 building code, but if you do it in 2020 and then try to sell later when the code has changed, you could be made to bring it up to that year's codes.

Would I ever do work without a permit? Not if I was going to sell the house in the future. And as a live-in flipper, I am always going to sell the house in the future. Do the work with the permits and you won't have any issues in the future.

Mike Cumbie · Answer

Permit Schmermit!

Just kidding, I recommend getting them.

Besides what others have said about resale and insurance, it's about pushing the liability off. I had an instance personally where some whackadoodle decided to sue our company 4 months after purchasing a house. First it was complaints about having to have her pipe snaked 6 weeks after buying (new Septic and new pipes). Then the complaints about the furnace, the fact that when she put up new light fixtures that were smaller the ceiling under the new LED's we put up were not painted.  While in court she decided to bring up 20 other items she "felt were not up to par". Yes including the paint on the inside of a closet hinge. There were different contractors doing everything she complained about.

Handing the judge the Certificates of Compliance (Permits when they are inspected at the end) and the New Certificate of Occupancy pretty much ended the whole thing.

James Beckman · Answer

@Kyleigh Morgan Hello from a fellow Longmonster!  We live in Longmont but are actually in unincorporated Boulder County, which is fairly strict about building and permitting. I highly recommend calling the county offices and talking with them about what you want to do and what they require permits for - establish that relationship now and also, hopefully, relieve some anxiety. Many permits can be applied for online and my experience with inspections has (so far) been painless. The scheduling can be annoying, but hire good contractors (or do good work yourself), and the inspections should be smooth.

Boulder County has a lot of permitting information online that you can educate with, and you can apply for permits online here:

https://www.bouldercounty.org/property-and-land/land-use/building/ezbp-building-permits/

Personally, I find getting permits worth any extra hassle since it's a check on the work done and it makes selling easier.  I hope this helps!

Aaron Smith · Answer

I personally only pull. Permit if I am adding square footage that was not there before or adding something structural like a deck.  Other that that forget it.

Dave E. · Answer

@Kyleigh Morgan

Permits are not expensive. Generally they help protect you and your investment because contractors know that someone will be looking over their shoulder.  I have found that it generally not worth skipping the permit. You may save a little time and money, but if it goes south it will cost a lot of time and money.

Marcia Maynard · Answer

• Cleaning, painting or refacing cabinetry.
• Replacing cabinet knobs and drawer pulls with simple, modern hardware.
• Installing new countertops on existing cabinets.
• Replacing backsplashes.
• Updating lighting fixtures.
• Updating plumbing fixtures.
• Replacing floor coverings.
• Painting over existing interior and exterior surfaces.

Kyleigh Morgan · Answer

@Mindy Jensen

Omg! You were the main person I wanted to hear from!  🤗 I knew you lived here and were doing the same thing. Thank you so much!! This is such great info!!! This makes me feel much better about moving forward with our plans! If you have time to answer one more question that would be awesome!! There is a load bearing wall in our house that we want to take down. During the inspection it was discovered that there is a tiny bit of asbestos in that wall (not sure if “tiny” makes a difference when talking about asbestos), so it sounds like that work will need to get permitted as well and in order to do that I imagine they will require me to have it professionally removed? Have you ever dealt with something like that? The wall definitely needs to come down to be brought up to the level of these other houses in the neighborhood, but I’m scared of what that means...I guess I should just call an abatement company and just get a quote, but was wondering if you had any advice when it comes to asbestos....this house was built in 1950...in the future should I steer clear of homes that are this old to avoid this issue?

Kyleigh Morgan · Answer

@Mike Cumbie

Wow! Thank you! That is very good advice and thank you for sharing your story!! Sounds like the permits saved you! 🙏

David Hutson · Answer

@Kyleigh Morgan,

That is definitely a loaded question, as you know.  I would recommend you search BP for other contractors and investors in your area that you work in and ask them what they pull permits for.  As for the costs, a lot of times you can find the permit prices on the city/county sites, or again, ask the others in your area doing that type of work.  I don't know your area so I can't answer it clearly.

To answer the main question, as a real estate agent, I have had buyers ask about the permits for all of the work.  That is one big area that you can run into issues, especially with newer buyers or those who may want to live in the home.  Most investors I work with don't ask so you could be ok if you don't have permits for everything.

Another thing to consider is that a buyer could come back to you in six months when something breaks and there were no permits for the work.  If all the work was done well it's probably not an issue.  For me, when I'm working on homes I want to know that the work was done well, to standard and that my contractors will come back out and look at the repair within a reasonable amount of time.

Finally, another great resource is your local REIA.  You can find contractors and investors who are currently doing the work and/or pulling permits.  They should be able to give you general info.  Hope this helps.

Mindy Jensen · Answer

@Kyleigh Morgan tag me in that new post and I'll tag a few other people who might be able to help

Permits: how important are they?

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