Rehabbing & House Flipping
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback
Updated over 5 years ago, 04/16/2019
The Occupants from Hell!
I am currently dealing with some occupants (who are no more than squatters) and getting them out so I can get in and start the rehab has been a daunting process. Typically, I get them out with cash for keys and it is never easy, but usually effective.
In this case, I purchased the property (practically stole it on price and terms)Feb 28th of this year and am still working on getting these morons out. I offered them $6k! for keys and they did not take it. I started eviction and they have used every tactic in the book to cause delays and extend the process. On the final hour before the summary judgement hearing, one of the two occupants filed for BK causing another 45 day or so delay. Unfortunately in CA, the laws, for some stupid reason, reside with occupants and not the legal owners. (I wont even get started on politics here!)
The good news is that I was able to have summary judgement against one of the occupants and already filed for the Sherriff to remove her from the premises. Should be within the next week or so for that. The kicker is that once it happens, her boyfriend still has rights to be there (until he is finally evicted) so I am quite sure she will just come right back. When that happens, I will make damn sure I make their lives as miserable as possible for the problems they have caused me. How can I do that legally you might ask? I will have periodic visits to the property and when I see she is there, I will call the Sherriff and inform them that she is illegally trespassing on my property and I want her removed/arrested. I will do this as many times as it takes until they get the point or until summary judgement against him occurs. Either way, screw them both!!! :roll:
What comes around goes around and theirs is coming.
***Update as of today 1-31-16: 5 years and 32 thread pages later, this is still ongoing. The following link was created by a BP Member in support of my situation found on page 32 of this thread. https://www.gofundme.com/OccupantsfromHell
This was approved by the heads of BP to be live in this thread. ***
Originally posted by Kevin Yeats:
I know if you want to share the details, you will.
I just ponder if this had happened to a relatively inexperienced property owner on perhaps his/her third or fourth deal, that this experience would have bankrupted the property owner.
Yes, there is risk in every type of investment.
Will, you bring up a good point about judges. Many of them have very limited real estate knowledge. I had a friend who was a commissioner in small claims court. He would call and ask me real estate questions all the time.
If attorneys specialize in certain areas of the law I think we should be able to take real estate issues to judges that specialize in real estate. It's a thought.
Will,
I just read your entire thread. What a nightmare. It really highlights the worst of our laws and legal system. I am impressed by your ability to maintain a reasonable tone throughout this ordeal...I am not sure I would remain so gracious. Anyhow, Good luck going forward.
Gene, it has not been easy, particularly for a hot blooded Italian who would like to go old school on these people, but better judgement has prevailed. Thanks for your thoughts.
I've only had a couple of investment purchases so far, and have had mostly good tenants in my properties. I had one "semi-professional" squatter that took me about 8 months to get out, and I got a judgment against him for what it's worth - no way to collect on it.
But I have to say, if I was in a situation like the one you're in, I'd be asking myself a lot of "what if" questions:
- What if I broke in when they weren't home and changed the locks?
- What if the house became uninhabitable because of broken windows?
- What if I spent my money on an attorney to fight criminal charges instead of civil ones?
Will,
What does this guy do for a living? That is if he works at all !
Is the seller aware of what you are going through? What were you told during the transaction about this guy?
Have you ever been inside this house?
Why did you think you got this house at a -steal ? Maybe the seller knew something like this was going to come up (maybe they had a very nasty relationship & he just wanted to pay her back)
Is your private lender aware of what is going on? Have you tried to talk to him, maybe he can renegotiate with you or you halt the payment temporarily until you process the property ( there is no harm in asking if you have built a relationship with him).
You are a good guy and I have read a lot of your post. I pray you get this issue resolved soon.
Good luck.
Tracey
Tracey, I have yet to step inside the home and I have owned it for almost 2 years now! I was aware that this occupant could be a problem, however, the seller did make several false statements to me. I will not go into the details at the moment as this is an ongoing legal issue and can not give away my hand at this time.
I believed I got this house at a steal because my all-in (acquisition plus rehab) created a large margin and it was obtained with sub2 financing which is a bonus.
My private lender is fully aware of the issues at hand and I provide updates as they occur. This is the first time he has been a lender in my deals, and to his credit, has been very understanding of the cirumstances. To my credit, i have kept him whole in interest payments and will keep him whole in the principle invested no matter what happens. This will lead me to a new thread post soon.
Thank you for your kind words, I too hope that isssue is resolved soon.
Sorry, missed a question. No, the occupant does not work, he lives off of disability payments and his girlfriend is not much better off.
In court today, made some progress. Unlucky in that the court clerk failed to notify seller of trial and of course occupant's attorney certainly did not in hopes of creating another delay yet again! That did occur and I must wait yet again for a new trial date to be set, but the judge did make a very important ruling today which was in my extreme favor.
I can see some light at the end of this long dark tunnel! Details of exactly what is going on can not come until after trial.
Will, If you want to screw with your dead beat tenant here is an idea they will hate. The disability he or she is one often you can lose that disability if you are living with someone that has income and they bring income into that home or.
To report that would not be too difficult. Also if he is staying at property free!!!! He is receiving untaxed benefits, that is a 1099 event at end of year and I would strongly suggest you 1099 him and send a copy to his disability people which is usually the local social security office. the other copy to your rental place and maybe another copy to there bankruptcy. Dont do this until they are out of your property though!!
I like what J Scott said about your ac unit cut the line but I hate to get in trouble with the judge over taking out utilities illegally even though these people throughly deserve it.
If I have there information Will I am doing the following. Get eviction not money judgment I wonder if courts would have moved your case faster if you had done an eviction without a money action event? In some states you can do an eviction that evicts all human being on the property no matter what there names are if you dont know the names? Is this not possible in Calif?
All this is hind sight and I guess anyone can see what a mess your situation is when they played the BK card on you. I know this if there was a tree on that property I would be sending over maintenance crew to trim trees at 8 am ever morning a couple days in a row then maybe other issues on property you could deal with 2. The key is just notify em before entering property. Once inspection is made any damage occur to unit you may be able to press court to have them out faster claiming vandalism. Getting into unit just to look around with a officer of the law to get a complete condition report would be a good idea so they cant do any more damage without your filing criminal damage to property charges on them.
I had one group of tenants I hired a policeman off duty to accompany me in uniform 7 times to a property to do inspections and maintenance. The power of the uniform caused tenants to get out before court date and that was worth the 200 bucks cash I gave to the officer. I have ever since always used the law to help in these issues of evictions. I learned this on a ghetto complex I used to own.
I moved a police man onto property gave him free rent and it drove off my drug dealers! Was a large complex in Memphis down town. We made some money on that deal. The key is buy the problem solve the problem then make some money. To me dead beat tenants are money. The BK is a tough one hang in there;)
Im sorry I meant dead beat previous owner and I am sorry I didnt read rest of posts before replying. Doesnt the title company have any responsibility here? I guess it seems if she is able to sell ? doesnt she sign something in there showing she is only owner.
Then if either selling party says they were married and were not legally married? Would not her representation of a seller being the only party that has interest in property be a potential case involving her in Fraud trying to sell something that isnt hers? Or if you say your married but your not then isnt this perjury if its done on a stand in court? Maybe she or he has already perjured themselves on the stand with this phony marriage crap. Have you discussed these strategies with your attorney? There maybe be somewhere in court documents and ect that the defendants or sellers previous owners what ever u call them have broken the law with this marriage sham they are pulling. Sometimes faced with criminal charges people give up?
Just trying to see what your attorney might think about these ideas?
Sometimes its a challenge finding attorneys that are strategists and the ones that work using the Art of War or take no prisoners as sort of philosophy in winning in the court room. I have a friend from high school that is an attorney. If he lived near me I would use him even though he is double the average rate hourly because he is so good its worth it.
I had another friend lose some money on an Eminent domain case where he had hired 3 attorneys before one finally was able to finish case. My friend figures having the wrong attorney up front lost him 100k.
Much of what you stated is not accurate and there exists underlting details you either did not read or were not posted yet in this thread.
Regardless, the fact remains that the title company is only responsible for recorded items, this claim is not recorded, although if done properly, should have been with a lis pendence which would have prevented the sale in the first place and I would not be in this mess.
Evection: Tried multiple times and a notice of stay was granted on 3 different occassions, finally ending up in Family court where it does not really belong, though no for much longer - FINALLY!
When it's done, sell the movie rights to this soap opera. Gotta make a profit somehow!
I've read this thread 3-4 times hoping to see a resolution- and it always amazes me. Good Luck with the final solution, Will. Hope your other investments are making up for this pain.
Originally posted by Kama Ward:
Holy Guacomole! What a thread. Thanks for sharing Will. What a bummer. Do you think this will change your mind and only pick up vacant properties from now on? I have read more than one horror story about occupied RE investments but I know this isn't your first time around the block. Is it legal to do a tenant screening on current tenants of a property you want to buy?
I guess another question would be: Do property management companies have easier methods of screening/evicting tenants and more importantly do they share any of the legal cost incurred when a tenant they approved turns out to be a 2 year scum bag?
Will Barnard, thank you for sharing your story. I bet once those low-lives are out, you will want to kick their butts to kingdom come for screwing you over.
I have only ever purchased properties 2x that were occupied. Both times they were rentals.
The first one was a duplex and the landlord was out of state. I met with the tenants of one side before closing and they were nice. Then I met with the other side and she seemed like she was nice, and the prior landlord said both sides always paid their rent, and the first month she did, but then she started going back to her old ways. Well we started the pay or quit immediately and I guess she decided that since we were local, she couldn't play that game with us. She moved out on our own; only gave us 2 weeks notice but we didn't care, much cheaper than eviction. We also had to CLEAN the place as it was dirty but overall not the worst situation.
In the second scenario it was an out of town landlord and the agent told me the tenants "wouldn't allow showings" which made them sound difficult. So I just went over there myself, unannounced, and introduced myself. They also seemed really nice and I assured them that I wasn't going to kick them out and also said that I would lower their rent after taking over the property (as it really was overpriced for the area). I hinted that it would be a good idea to continue being "difficult" regarding not letting anyone see the place. I made a full offer the next day ($23K) and closed quickly (cash deal). I did some minor repairs as promised, changed the locks (so I had keys) and also put in place a lease (which the other landlord didn't have) and kept my promise to lower the rent. They were so happy.
I wish you could have had stories like that. Now we see why they didn't take your $6K "cash for keys" deal -- free rent for 2 years is what, like $20K? Plus all the attorney's fees you've had, and holding costs? I know hindsight is 20-20, but I bet if you came by with a cashier's check for $20K that first day (or better yet a suitcase full of cash) and told them all that could be theirs once they left, that might have sealed the deal and gotten you on with your life. A big wad of cash is much more impressive than a number on a piece of paper.
Kyle - Best analogy I can give about tenant screening is this and it involved a watering hole: you can have the best bouncer in the world at your bar but every now and then someone under 21 is going to find a way to get a drink. But if you hire and train smart bartenders and bouncers the amount of underage drinkers will go way down compared to if the door is wide open and nobody asks for ID.
I do business development consulting for a screening co. along with being an owner/landlord so the key is just vetting your screening company. It was too late to do anything in Will's case being tied to their lease but my guess is the tenants had a long history of screwing up before they moved in to this home and either nobody screened them or the job was insurfficient. Let's be honest, it's very rare for middle-aged adults to all of a sudden become financially and/or criminally irresponsible. There's almost always a track record or pattern.
As far as a screening company being held responsible financially I'm not sure, we don't have that in our contracts (although we did acquire a collections company for back-end protection when people do slip through the cracks). I can tell you though for a fact that if too many people are slipping through those cracks on a screening company's watch then the management company will fire them and hire someone else so there are financial repercussions on that end. I know this since I often get calls from these management firms.
John Sheedy -- these were not tenants, they were squatters. Read the first few posts from back in 2011.
Dawn A. -- Ok I just re-read. I thought these were just former tenants who were staying through the process. Either way, what a nightmare. The bigger investors have enough volume to overcome crap like this but for us smaller guys it can be an absolute killer.
Originally posted by John Sheedy:
That's good to know. So does that mean I don't have to ask perspective tenants "Were you ever or are you currently married to the previous owner in Fantasyland?"
Originally posted by Kyle Sparks: