Does a room need to have closet to be considered a bedroom?

Rental Property Investor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2017 · 25 posts · 9 votes

2 years ago I purchased a 3 bedroom and 2 bathroom property. I remodeled the kitchen and in the process removed one of the bedroom's closet because it was sticking out intto the kitchen. Im about to get it appraised for refinancing. Would that bedroom with no closet be still considered a bedroom?

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Christopher Phillips

Real Estate Agent · Garden City, NY · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes

Juan Mendoza International standards, Fannie Mae, FHA make no mention or requirement for a closet. It's a bit of a myth. Many older homes were built without closets. From appraisal today: "The Code refers to "habitable rooms" not bedrooms The essence of the 2015 International Residential Code is that the code does not specifically use the term bedroom, but refers to all habit- able areas of a home. However, in Code # R310.1, at least one opening must open to the outside. Therefore, it can be said that for each sleeping room, there must be two emergency escape and rescue opening. A bedroom ceiling needs to be at least 7 ft. tall. It's okay if some por- tions of ceiling are below this level, but at least 50% of the ceiling needs to be a minimum of 7 ft. in height. Most ceilings tend to be at least 8 ft. tall, so ceiling height is not usually an issue (R305.1). Lastly, the room should be at least 70 sq. Ft., and more specifically the room cannot be smaller than 7 feet in any horizontal direction. (R304.2 / R304.4). The Closet Myth Many believe that a closet defines a bedroom. In short, the market defines a bedroom as well as other considerations listed above. As a practical matter a bedroom should probably have a closet since most buyers expect one, but techni- cally the International Residential Code does NOT mandate a bedroom to have a closet. So the lack of a clos- et does not necessarily mean a room cannot be a bedroom. However, as Fannie Mae makes clear, the appraiser must consider what is expected in the local market, and what is required by the local city/county."

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Eddie Egelston
Residential Real Estate Broker · Crystal Lake, IL · Member since 2012 · 124 posts · 94 votes
9y
The answer is irrelevant. The appraiser is there to determine fair cash value. How much less will a potential buyer pay for the house, now that one "bedroom" does not have a closet? And now, how much more will a buyer pay now that the kitchen is bigger. No big difference either way.
BTW a simple google search says appraisers do not need to see a closet to call something a bedroom.
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Jason White
Contractor · La Mirada, CA · Member since 2015 · 66 posts · 48 votes
9y
Juan Mendoza not sure about your state, but in California, technically speaking, you do have to have a built in closet of some kind to count a room as a bedroom. But not sure what it will mean for your appraisal.
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Dylan VargasPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Chico, CA · Member since 2016 · 625 posts · 336 votes
9y
@Juan Mendoza My experience has been way different than the previous two replies. In California you need a closet to be considered a bedroom plus an actual door on the room. Also when appraising a two bedroom will comp less than a 3 bedroom all things being equal. That is why everyone tries to get a 3 bedroom 2 bath for resale or flip. Again all things being equal and in parts of Chico you can sell a 2 bedroom at a great price if in the Avenues or such. This response is based on info I have been given on my flips etc. Seek a local Realtor for answer and local appraiser for answer. Good luck and let us know what happens.
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Austin Fruechting
Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2017 · 791 posts · 1k+ votes
9y
Yes it needs a closet and a point of egress to be considered a bedroom, and more bedrooms typically equal higher appraised value. Otherwise it's just listed as a 2 bed with a bonus room. If people have their search criteria for a 3 bed they won't see yours. I would put a small closet in the room for it to count. It won't cost much to slap up two walls in a corner of the room with a door and a closet rod.
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JD MartinBusiness Member
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Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
9y
If you are selling, definitely. If you are renting then it can be semantics; a lot of older homes had no closets at all, only free standing wardrobes. Egress, privacy and room for a bed are musts on a rental.
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Greg Hamer
Real Estate Agent · Carmel, CA · Member since 2015 · 193 posts · 128 votes
9y
As far as I have been reading, a bedroom does NOT need a closet. There are plenty of older homes on the market that do not have closets.
You need 2 egresses (including 1 that goes outside) such as a door or window, size about 70sqft (local codes may differ), ceilings at least 7ft high, and it cannot be a walk-through passage.
As always, your local codes may be different.
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Thomas S.
Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
9y
Technically a room must have a closet to be defined in a listing as a bedroom everywhere I am aware of. Without a closet is would be referred to as a office or study. As a two bed with office it may or may not be worth less than a 3 bed but probably. Could be 10-20K less.
Ask anyone that does flips, without a closet it is not a bed room.
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Juan Mendoza
OP
Rental Property Investor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2017 · 25 posts · 9 votes
9y
Thanks for all the answers guys. Im going to do a simple closet to make sure. Im doing a cash-out refinance and I want it to appraise as high as possible. Then the plan is to rent it.
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Matthew Paul
Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
9y
If a closet is a necessity for it to be a bedroom , then I own 2 houses with no bedrooms . Wardrobes were in back in the 1930's
4 Reply
Christopher Phillips
Real Estate Agent · Garden City, NY · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
Juan Mendoza International standards, Fannie Mae, FHA make no mention or requirement for a closet. It's a bit of a myth. Many older homes were built without closets. From appraisal today: "The Code refers to "habitable rooms" not bedrooms The essence of the 2015 International Residential Code is that the code does not specifically use the term bedroom, but refers to all habit- able areas of a home. However, in Code # R310.1, at least one opening must open to the outside. Therefore, it can be said that for each sleeping room, there must be two emergency escape and rescue opening. A bedroom ceiling needs to be at least 7 ft. tall. It's okay if some por- tions of ceiling are below this level, but at least 50% of the ceiling needs to be a minimum of 7 ft. in height. Most ceilings tend to be at least 8 ft. tall, so ceiling height is not usually an issue (R305.1). Lastly, the room should be at least 70 sq. Ft., and more specifically the room cannot be smaller than 7 feet in any horizontal direction. (R304.2 / R304.4). The Closet Myth Many believe that a closet defines a bedroom. In short, the market defines a bedroom as well as other considerations listed above. As a practical matter a bedroom should probably have a closet since most buyers expect one, but techni- cally the International Residential Code does NOT mandate a bedroom to have a closet. So the lack of a clos- et does not necessarily mean a room cannot be a bedroom. However, as Fannie Mae makes clear, the appraiser must consider what is expected in the local market, and what is required by the local city/county."
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Richard C.
Rental Property Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2014 · 49 posts · 80 votes
9y
Turning a "SFR 3bed / 2bath with a bonus room" , into a 4 bed / 2 bath with the simple addition of a closet, is one of my favorite value add plays. Cost of a built in closet around $500.00.
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Robb AlmyPro Member
Investor · Fredericksburg, VA · Member since 2014 · 123 posts · 65 votes
9y
@Christopher Phillips That is a great point about older homes not having closets. I bought an older home (built in 1859) that was considered six bedrooms and only one had a closet. The rest used an armoire. I am told that they did not have closets as they used to be taxed on rooms that had closets.
I always thought a bedroom has to have a window (which I guess is a second egress) or it cannot be listed as a bedroom but you can list in the comments on the mls as an additional bedroom NTC (not to code).
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Christopher Phillips
Real Estate Agent · Garden City, NY · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
@Robb Almy
You're right about bedrooms in NYC without windows or a 2nd means of egress. As long as it meets "minimum" size standards it can look like a broom closet and be considered a bedroom... ridiculous, but it's out there, and in a tight market people will pay for it...
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Eddie Egelston
Residential Real Estate Broker · Crystal Lake, IL · Member since 2012 · 124 posts · 94 votes
9y
Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

Technically a room must have a closet to be defined in a listing as a bedroom everywhere I am aware of. Without a closet is would be referred to as a office or study. As a two bed with office it may or may not be worth less than a 3 bed but probably. Could be 10-20K less.
Ask anyone that does flips, without a closet it is not a bed room.
My Chicago MLS would be one place where we don't need a closet to call it a bedroom. All the confusion comes from the fact that there are so many different parties that have a say, as to what is a "bedroom". Appraisers, assessors, buyers, sellers, Realtors can all have different definitions.
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Greg Hamer
Real Estate Agent · Carmel, CA · Member since 2015 · 193 posts · 128 votes
9y
It's amazing that there is so much misinformation floating around. Legally no closet is required. Functionally we all want one.
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Manolo D.
Contractor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
I too have never heard of a requirement that a closet needs to be present to be called a bedroom, it is too funny. Instead of debates and personal opinion, look for proof https://www.ladbs.org/docs/default-source/forms/plan-check-2017/single-family-dwelling-duplex-plan-review-list.pdf under G (Interior Env) which defines the minimum requirement of a habitable room (aka bedroom or bathroom). It tells you everything that you need. I hate misinformation, for posters that says you need a closet to be called a bedroom, prove your case, don't give me a blog of personal opinion, they are just that, personal opinions.
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Manolo D.
Contractor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
Robb Almy It's not that it is not to code, obviously when it was built, it was. You can't declare them not to code when they are compliant when they were built. Not to code means you altered it without permit.
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Elisa Uribe
Real Estate Agent · Oakland, CA · Member since 2016 · 63 posts · 33 votes
9y
@Juan Mendoza in CA you have to have a closet and a window in order for a room to be a bedroom. I represented a client and there was a room without a closet but the appraiser considered it a bedroom since there was a free standing closet and the tax records showed it as a bedroom. The window guideline also has a height restrictions, homes built hillside with a room on the lower level are not always considered bedrooms because if the window is too small for a fireman to get in , in case of a fire it doesn't comply with the guidelines. Two ways out in case of a fire is a must.
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Richard C.
Rental Property Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2014 · 49 posts · 80 votes
9y
@Juan Mendoza I think there are legal definitions for a bedroom and there are usual and customary definitions for a bedroom, with each dependent on who you are talking too and where you are located. It would serve you well to discuss these definitions with appraisers and perhaps your local building authority before making a decision. To be safe, if you build a closet in the room in question, you won't ever have to explain to your appraiser, and to every potential tenant walking through your property why one of your "bedrooms" doesn't have a closet! Trust me, everyone of them will ask "wheres the closet in this room?" Lol.
Legal definitions aside, I DO get a significant equity bump upon conversion of a SFR 3/2 with an office to a SFR 4/2 because of the simple addition of a closet. Conversely, On homes I have wanted to expand, I have removed closets from bedrooms in order to label these as studies or offices, so that I could build additions that are labelled "bedrooms" (customized to my needs), in order to avoid the requirements of expanding a 2 car garage to a 3 car garage (a local requirement when building beyond 4 bedrooms). If it is good enough for my local building authority to get permitted, it is good enough for me.
In both of these cases, it was the presence or absence of the all mighty built in closet that allowed me to execute these real estate maneuvers. Ymmv based on your locale and who you are talking to at the time.
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Jason Griffith
Richardson, TX · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 5 votes
9y
No hallway is required, however here's the requirements that I know of.
1. Minimum square footage: This can vary from state to state, 70 to 80 square feet is generally the acceptable minimum. A bedroom must also measure at least 7 feet in any horizontal direction.
2. Two means of egress: There have to be two ways out of a bedroom. Traditionally, these would be a door and a window.
3. Minimum ceiling height: At least half of the bedroom ceiling has to be at least 7 feet tall.
4. Minimum window size: The window opening must be a minimum size, usually 5.7 square feet.
5. A heating and cooling element: A heater (space heaters won't qualify) as well as a way to cool it down, whether that's by opening a window or AC.
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Karen S.
Investor · Sewickley, PA · Member since 2017 · 59 posts · 32 votes
9y
Our appraisers here in PA have always insisted on a closet or else they will not add the room to the bedroom count. That is in addition to the door and the two means of egress. Without the appraiser's agreement, we are stuck here. Well, unless we want to go at it from the legal end, which wouldn't be worth it in our case...
If the wardrobe (think cheapo ikea) is fixed to the wall, the appraisers we have used consider that "Builtin" YMMV
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Kathleen Leary
Princeton, KS · Member since 2014 · 357 posts · 169 votes
9y
My own home has no closets. My last purchase (built 1900) has no closets. It did, however, have a separate parlour.
Trends in housing change. Nowadays we can't even imagine "no closets!" but really don't need a formal parlour.
Check your local codes, as other posters have advised. Appraisal is not the same thing as legal.
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Heather SkowronskyPro Member
Real Estate Agent · Manassas, VA · Member since 2013 · 118 posts · 63 votes
9y
So the answer is no, it does not need a closet to be considered a bedroom per the international building code. What a room does need is 90+ square feet, ventilation and egress in order to be considered a bedroom. However, many appraisers (and realtors, and the general population) believe that it does need a closet in order to be considered an actual bedroom - I have no clue why - it is not part of the building code! So you may have a struggle on your hands trying to prove to the appraiser whether it's an actual "bedroom" or not. Your local county/city has most likely adopted the international building code as most do. Just verify they did not add any further stipulations.
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Manolo D.
Contractor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
Elisa Uribe There is no code requirement requiring a closet to be called a bedroom. I'd be happy to get corrected. At least not that I know of in all SoCal cities. I just did a 2/1 making a 1/1 making it a 3/2, official description of the permit was renamed by the plan checker to "Proposed remodel of existing SFD to create one bedroom and one bathroom. Relocate existing kitchen to living space." No closet on the new bedroom. Permit approved.
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Manolo D.
Contractor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
Heather Skowronsky In short, it falls down to a personal opinion instead of an official statement. Ha, what a world, right? :) So it's best to slap the approved building permit to them where it says "bedroom" on the plans.
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