Plumbing costs...include drain lines and vents?

Question

In putting together a scope of work for a property I am planning to offer on, I am referencing J Scott's "The Book on Estimating Rehab Costs". As it pertains to plumbing, does the $200-$300 per fixture figure in "replace all supply lines" include drain and vent piping? I plan to reconfigure the kitchen and add a 1/2 bath on the first floor, as well as modify the full bath on the second floor. All are adjacent to the existing stack, and drywall/plaster will be removed in each of the rooms so plumbing and electric will be accessible. Drain piping and venting are discussed in the opening paragraphs, but the cost guidelines section is not clear to me as to whether or not they are included.

Manolo D. · Answer

Sounds like a 5k job for me with permits, excluding putting back drywall and no extensive demo work.

Scott Carder · Answer

I was in agreement with you. I quoted you, I was speaking to the OP. Try decaf.

Jassem A. · Answer

Probably not but if it's close to the stack and walls are open then it shouldn't be a big deal. Permits and inspections may add cost and slow things down though.

J Scott · Answer

Just a quick note...If you're replacing all the supply lines, the $200-300/fixture INCLUDES the finish work as well (replacing the fixture). It doesn't include the drain lines (as discussed), but everything else...As an example, in Atlanta we had a lot of houses with polybutylene supply lines (a material used for a while in the late 80's and early 90's that proved unreliable and which generally needs to be replaced whenever found in a house these days). I probably repiped about 20 houses in Atlanta and then another 5-10 in Milwaukee between 2008-2012.Typical cost to repipe a 1000-2000 sf house with 2 bathrooms, a kitchen a laundry room and some exterior hose-bibs (so, about 12-20 fixtures) would run between $2500-4500 in Atlanta. Or about $200-225 per fixture.Typical cost for the same think in Milwaukee tended to be about $4000-6000. Or about $300 per fixture.Keep in mind that Atlanta is on the less-expensive side of things. And Milwaukee tends to be very expensive (tough building codes, unionized contractors, labor shortage, etc).

Phil Davis · Answer

Thanks guys. The project is a 3/2 two-story rehab-to-retail I am trying to put together. The $200-$300 figure used in the original post was pulled from J's book as mentioned. That is the range listed for supply piping only. The cost of fixture installation and drain connection are listed as separate line items (leaving me with a total plumbing budget between $3670 and $7190, with a mid-range price coming in around $5430). I was not seeing a price for drainage rough-in, and was curious as to whether or not I had missed something (which J has cleared up. Thanks J).There is a basement below the areas mentioned, and the stack is easily accessible. The walls and ceilings will be opened up in plumbing areas, so I am not real concerned about getting into any major surprises.I have done a couple projects of this nature in the past, but did much of the work myself. This is my first go around estimating and hiring out the entire project. I realize the numbers vary from project-to-project, and location-to-location, but am trying to get as close as possible. The numbers appear to be working on the above mentioned project, so I am about to give it a go. I don't want to have to, but if I missed on something, I can always do some areas of work myself to bring the budget back in line. This "first" project will give me the opportunity to compare my estimate to actual numbers, resulting in better estimates on future projects.I appreciate all of the above responses. Thank you.

Patrick L. · Answer

Drain line cost is going to vary considerably depending on how the house is built and where you're moving things. Big difference between changing out or moving something with access from a crawl space/basement vs jack hammering up a slab (which is how most homes here are built)

Frank S. · Answer

A few hundred bucks to replace in place, provide traps and supplies. It depends on the fixtures used, a sink can be $150 or $2,000.A few thousand to connect to waste and vent, plus the above. Regular codes may affect the bid. E.g., Chicago uses copper and lead and oakum only v. outside the City you can use pvc. I use RS Means Cost Datahttp://rsmeans.com/60215.aspx

Manolo D. · Answer

Scott Carder I don't need a plumbing company to teach me how to do my pricing. I am saying that is what I might charge for a regular 3/2 up to 2000 sf house. Extensive demo will be removing floor or something. The post says "open walls" already. Charging for change-outs as you describe it at 200-300/fixture is absurd.

Scott Carder · Answer

200 to 300 would be to change out a fixture and put a new one in the exact same location. Anytime you change location or go into the wall the price goes way up. Someone estimating costs for doing a deal should speak to a potential contractor to get a good estimate.

J Scott · Answer

It's much more common that you'll be replacing all the supply lines in your house than replacing all the plumbing (supply lines plus drain lines). Typically the drains are more sturdy due to the types of materials used and their size. For that reason, the range of pricing in the book assumes just supply lines.That said, if you're only adding drains to one or two areas (like a new bathroom, for example), the additional cost shouldn't be very great.If you're replacing all the plumbing in the house (supply lines and drain lines), then to be safe you may want to add $50-100 per fixture (or at very least, assume the high side of the range).