Should this contractor's bid still be given a fair consideration?

Question

#contractors_are_shady

A contractor who was working with my architect to complete blueprints for the county's plan check always took his time to provide necessary information, and refused to give me an itemized bid because he is "just a general contractor" and thus cannot afford the time/resources into providing an itemized bid because it runs the risk of me finding specific tradespeople for tasks he subcontracts and marks up. Because he thought he had the job for sure, he would always throw out random numbers - and they would always change for the same task. So I sought other opinions, and when he found out, he gave a bid  lower than what the others estimated.

As sketchy as it sounds, I was considering going with him because I know he works on a smaller scale which might justify the price difference. But after the architect sent out the final plans this morning, he - who has always been slow to respond to emails - texted me immediately with the following message, "based off the blueprints, I'm estimating construction costs to be $45k because windows are an additional 8500. Once I get a working set of plans I can give you a proper bid, this is why I said i should be in the loop"

That's a 40% increase from his original bid, and none of the other contractors' itemized bids for windows came anywhere near 8500. And when he was kept in the loop, he wasn't performing, so now that he knows his job is threatened, he is complaining about being out of the loop? What allows him to feel entitled to do so? In fact, his delayed responses caused a lot of delay in obtaining the building permit - plans were supposed to be submitted prior to the holidays but because he was lagging, they didn't get submitted until mid-January.

I didn't respond to his last text, and he had the courage to proceed and say "If you're gonna want me involved in this project I'm going to need to know I am starting to get very busy"... Excuse me? This project was supposed to start four months ago, but he clearly had not been in a rush to lock down the project until now.

Should he still have a shot at the job?

Julia Blythe · Answer

@Chrystal T.,

I have been where you are now when we first started out flipping houses.  It is not a fun place to be.  To me, the first red herring to this contractor is that he will not give you a detailed, broken down estimate.  You said he:

"... refused to give me an itemized bid because he is 'just a general  contractor' and thus cannot afford the time/resources into providing an  itemized bid because it runs the risk of me finding specific  tradespeople for tasks he subcontracts and marks up."

I say with that statement alone, I would know he was shady and was not the contractor for me.  I want to know what everything of any consequence costs.  I think all good flippers do and should. The most important thing with a contractor is trust.  I want to be able to trust my contractor and in return, I want that contractor to trust me.  We both need to make money on the deal but I have to have complete transparency.  One thing that I too learned the hard way was you must tell any contractors interested in giving you a bid that you must have a detailed quote broken out by materials and labor BEFORE he consents in giving you a bid.  It is just bad business sense to not have a detailed breakdown on the estimate.  If you don't have that, the flip (or contractor) manages you instead of you managing the flip.  This is one reason why some contractors should never work for flippers.  We made that mistake only once and have since found a wonderful contractor that has done the last 5 houses with us.  We get detailed quotes and I have never hired any of his subs to do anything -- although I know who each and every one of them are.

I think finding the right contractor is like dating.  Sometimes you have to kiss a lot of frogs to find your prince!

Good luck to you.

Chrystal T. · Answer

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

Account Closed : agreed that transparency is completely important. And he had been sent a full set of plans and specs, but even then he refused to give a clear bid and his figures constantly changed. If we think about it, his only justification from the 40% increase from his original bid (at which point he already had the plans and specs) was the $8500 windows. The windows were the only difference that came back in the county's plan check. Another contractor gave a $4500 bid on the exact same windows... and $8500 is much less than a 40% markup... so his numbers simply don't make sense.

Anyway, it's clear I won't be going with this guy but I just wanted to rant. Thanks for listening everyone! :)

I just find his attitude really interesting and entertaining. He clearly wants the business pretty badly but he's giving me some shit attitude and still thinks he has a solid chance at the job.

Account Closed · Answer

@Chrystal T.  I have no idea about this person but might it be possible for you to ask your question with disparaging an entire profession?  The vast majority of contractors I know and work with are not "shady".  For you to paint such a broad brush, when you yourself don't seem to fully know what you're doing, says more about yourself than him.

Chrystal T. · Answer

@Steve Babiak , sorry lit major by training. can't shed off the rhetoric

Steve Babiak · Answer

Why do you even ask this question, when you already know the answer?!?

Gabriel Mabry · Answer

Nightmare situations happen for the contractor as well - I have plenty to tell. Adding on work clearly that wasn't discussed and of course not wanting to pay any extra and leveraging your current pay to make you comply--

Manolo D. · Answer

i have seen these contractors and clients in both areas. Most of my jobs are self-performed, occasionally I do some subcontracts. I think you aren't that firm on your timeline with your bid search and you might have a scope creep in there, rendering your bid solicitations unequal. I always say something like Mitsubishi 2-ton ductless system, or granite countertop with max price of $xx/sq.ft, something similar to it. As you know, there are windows that go for $500/panel, there are also $2000/panel. As for the plans, nobody will tell you when and to who you will give it to, but it is best if you get multiple bids, if you plan to micro manage it, get bids from subcontractors, if you plan not to, get a GC, only one system, so that you will be comparing apples to apples.

Colin L. · Answer

On one hand its impossible to give an accurate bid without a full set of plans and spec's and that's part of why he is being coy with his estimates.  On the other hand his general attitude and lack of transparency throws up a lot of red flags for me.  What does your architect say?  I'm assuming he brought the guy into the fold (but maybe not).  If you trust your architect, his thoughts on the contractor should help you decide.  If I was your architect and this contractor was my buddy I would still tell you that if you are concerned about getting the best price, you should have this guy and 2 others competitively bid the job.  In the future, it would be best to be clear that this is your intention from the start.  In my experience, the contractors who we have the most success with have no problem being 100% transparent, and usually have no problem when the client wants to use a specific sub to save money (although we discourage this as it often leads to issues for the client).

Greg Behan · Answer

#not_all_contractors_are_shady  :)

Anyway long story short it sounds like you have the classic example of the contractor who isn't so strong on the business end.  What that would mean in your shoes is you might have to baby sit him a bit and be on top of a few things he probably should be.  If you feel he is a good trustworthy contractor that will complete the work in a professional matter and you have a good relationship with him it might be worth it.  If you're too busy to be checking on his permits and making sure what he says is getting done is getting done (and done right) then I'd strongly consider one of the other contractors.

I normally don't do itemized bids either.  It's too competitive around here and people try to take advantage of contractors just as much as contractors try to take advantage of people (sad really on both ends).  So I simply say this is the job you asked me to quote, this is my price for everything.  I don't change that price "to beat the other guy" either.  If he's cheaper fantastic hopefully he knows what he's doing too.

Whether or not he should still have a shot comes down to your choice really.  Have you worked with him before?  Is he a quality worker? Is he efficient?  Are any of the other contractors highly recommended and possibly a better option?

Should this contractor's bid still be given a fair consideration?

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