Retaining wall issue - house under contract - real estate lawyer?

Question

Hi all,

I have a house under contract in which there is a large retaining wall that seperates two properties (one being mine). When I go to fix I would have to extend 5 feet onto the neighbors property (GEO Grid) and dig alot out of his yard. My questions:

1) Would a basic contract work with the neighbor stating he agrees I can work on his property and install the grid? If not, should I get a real estate lawyer involed? 
2) Should I ask the neighbor to help pay since the wall is between both properties?

Looking for some feedback

Jon Holdman · Answer

I was pointing the question to @Drew Denham to understand if that's an option for his situation.   The neighbor is being uncooperative.  And having to do a bunch of digging in his yard seems problematic.  If there's anything down there (water, electricity, sewer, sprinklers, etc.) then the situation may be more complex than it initially seems and the work may spiral out of control.

Bill S. · Answer

@Jon Holdman exactly.

Bill S. · Answer

@Jon Holdman technically yes a wall can be designed so that you don't need your neighbor's property. They are called gravity walls and they offset the forces of the earth they retain by the weight of the wall. They contain lots of concrete and some rebar. They are the most expensive types of walls. It takes some space so @Drew Denham would need to do some investigation to determine if there is room. Drew, time is your enemy in this case. What you are going to figure out is, the wall is failing and it's going to cost a boat load to fix it.

Geo-grid is the cheapest wall system but based on what you have said, you won't be able to do that. Your idea of steel posts will fail. You can look around and see, every old wall with metal posts is bent over. The soil pressures are huge. For a wall to stand long term it must be designed and most areas require that walls over 3 ft tall be designed by a registered professional engineer. Professional engineers require a soils report which must be prepared by a professional geotechnical engineer. Contractor's know a lot about walls but most contractors don't really understand the technical aspects of the design of walls that stand the test of time.

Jon Holdman · Answer

Is there a way to build a wall that's strictly on your side of the line and doesn't require going onto the neighbor's property?

Adrian Tilley · Answer

@Jerry W. had a good response.  I would strongly emphasize getting this figured out before you decide whether to go through with the property.  It may be that someone else gets the property because you back out, but they may just not have seen the issues you do.

You really don't want to get in the middle of a project like this and have to spend tens of thousands on attorneys' fees because the neighbor is unreasonable.  See if you can work with the neighbor to figure it out.

George C. · Answer

The neighbor could be broke & six months behind on his mortgage. He might not have a penny to pay or care. Most average folks don't have $5-10K to whip out to pay for something like that, they'd sooner use that for a vacation . Count on paying for it yourself.

George P. · Answer

I hate walls so much because of the thousands and thousands it will cost to fix that I'd back out. But that's just me.  Finding a company that will do a good job is a chore as well.  Good luck

Jerry W. · Answer

@Drew Denham I am still not sure where the property line is and where the wall is in relation to it.  you said the wall is leaning a foot over onto your side?  is it on your neighbors and has leaned onto yours?

First lawsuits are based upon duty, breach, damages, and a causal connection between the breach and the damages.  The normal assumption is that the person who owns the wall has the duty to maintain it, if not maintaining it would harm the property of another.    The history of the wall could be very important.  Who built it and why?  Next if it will only harm your property if it falls then its probably all on you.

You will absolutely need either a temporary or a permanent easement to work on your neighbors property.  If you do not get one it may be very expensive to get one through the courts.  Get it in writing, a verbal OK will probably not hold up if he changes his mind.

Do not plan on getting the neighbor to pay any part of the cost of fixing the wall.  Unless you can prove a legal obligation on his part to fix it he has no obligation.  You have not given any information that leads me to believe he has any obligation.  Perhaps some exists perhaps not, but the burden is on you to show he has the obligation.

Please do not be the guy who buys a house knowing what the problem is and try to sue your neighbor to try to fix it.  Figure it out now and see if the repairs compared to purchase price makes it a deal or not.

Hope this helps.

Bill S. · Answer

You need an attorney to advise you. Perhaps @Jerry W.

or @Adrian Tilley would have some thoughts.

Generally the wall is owned by the property it sits on which it sounds like is on your property or the one you want to buy.

This is my take, assuming I am the uphill property owner and the wall is on your side of the property line. Your property excavated out the material and if you fail to maintain the wall, I would sue you for causing damage to my property. Your use of a geo-grid is your choice and you would need a permanent easement on my property. You can purchase one if you need to but I don't have to sell it to you either.

You can construct a gravity retaining wall fully on your property that keeps my property safe and does not take my property.

A good neighbor might do something else but I don't think you can compel him to do so.

Geo-grid is much cheaper than a gravity wall and in some cases there is not enough space for a gravity wall. This makes the property a liability not an asset.  The seller gave you 10K but there are a lot of walls out there that the 10K won't even pay for the engineer to design the replacement wall.

Get some legal advise.

Retaining wall issue - house under contract - real estate lawyer?

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