Negotiations When Purchasing Existing STR

Negotiations When Purchasing Existing STR

Member since 2024 · 107 posts · 55 votes

We're under contract for a SFH that is currently in use as a STR. Inspection revealed A LOT more problems than we ever imagined a house of this young age would have. We asked them to address 5 items that we saw as the most expensive and/or critical. Our realtor has informed us that they will address two lower cost items on the exterior of the home and want to provide us with a cashier's check at closing to address the other three. I believe part of their motivation is that they would have to cancel reservations to get the remaining work done.

We have quotes and know what the work will cost (we're talking tens of thousands of dollars). I haven't turned over our estimates as I told our realtor that the estimates won't cover the real cost to us, which is higher due to loss of use (no rental income while work is being done) and time that we'll have to invest in hiring and coordinating the work. 

We have 7 days left to reach agreement on this and I'm not hopeful at this point. I know we're in a good position because the sellers will now have to disclose some of the crap-ton of problems their place has and the foundation expert said that by refusing to fix the foundation they may end up having to be in a "sold AS IS" position which will drop the value significantly. 

Any recommendations or suggestions for ways to negotiate this (and not lose our earnest money)? Do I provide my own document for what we're asking for that includes loss of use (and compensation for my time)? Do we just ask for a gigantic reduction in price to cover everything? Or do we walk (something we are seriously considering). Our realtor wants us to accept an amount equal to the estimates.


For anyone who wants the details on the issues: 1) Deck is not securely attached to the house and the stairs are leaning. This is actually the easiest fix. 2) Foundation footer didn't go below the frost line and one corner of the house has sunk 2". Helical piers placed every 5' should fix this, but for a significant cost. 3) Due to a toilet becoming loose and failure to recognize that the toilet leaks every time it is flushed, the subfloor has "significant deterioration." Basically, the bathroom has to be gutted and subfloor replaced. This is not only expensive, but time consuming and it can't be rented during the renovation. Prior to finding this out, we agreed to honor all current bookings after taking ownership (we would get the income). But that means we have to push this out even further and the longer the issue isn't addressed, the more damage that is being done. At some point the subfloor under the bedroom may also be affected (it's a small bathroom and the toilet is right when you walk in) and the cost will go up even more. Adding that we won't honor those bookings is likely part of the negotiations, but again, loss of income.

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Accountant · San Diego, CA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 552 votes
1y

Hey Dina, 

The extensive repairs discovered during inspection could ultimately provide a tax benefit by increasing the depreciable basis of the property. Major issues like foundation work, bathroom renovations, and deck repairs are considered capital improvements, which can be depreciated over time, allowing you to offset a significant portion of your rental income with those deductions. While the repairs will temporarily affect rental operations, the long-term tax advantages from depreciation could help recover some of the initial financial outlay.

In terms of negotiations, it would be wise to push for a larger price reduction instead of accepting a cashier's check, given the magnitude of the repairs and the expected loss of rental income during the downtime. You can strengthen your position by documenting the repair estimates and the potential loss of income due to the disruption in bookings. Additionally, consider negotiating the ability to delay or cancel some bookings to complete the necessary work sooner, avoiding further damage.

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  • Accountant · San Diego, CA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 552 votes
    1y

    Hey Dina, 

    The extensive repairs discovered during inspection could ultimately provide a tax benefit by increasing the depreciable basis of the property. Major issues like foundation work, bathroom renovations, and deck repairs are considered capital improvements, which can be depreciated over time, allowing you to offset a significant portion of your rental income with those deductions. While the repairs will temporarily affect rental operations, the long-term tax advantages from depreciation could help recover some of the initial financial outlay.

    In terms of negotiations, it would be wise to push for a larger price reduction instead of accepting a cashier's check, given the magnitude of the repairs and the expected loss of rental income during the downtime. You can strengthen your position by documenting the repair estimates and the potential loss of income due to the disruption in bookings. Additionally, consider negotiating the ability to delay or cancel some bookings to complete the necessary work sooner, avoiding further damage.

  • Mike GrudzienPro Member
    Lender · Eugene, OR · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    1y

    Unless this is the deal of the century, after reading through the issues, my first thought is: run, don't walk!
    Why buy a box full of (serious) problems?
    Deal of the century with 3.0% interest rate?
    My 2 cents,
    Mike

  • Member since 2024 · 107 posts · 55 votes
    1y
    Quote from @Account Closed:

    Hey Dina, 

    The extensive repairs discovered during inspection could ultimately provide a tax benefit by increasing the depreciable basis of the property. Major issues like foundation work, bathroom renovations, and deck repairs are considered capital improvements, which can be depreciated over time, allowing you to offset a significant portion of your rental income with those deductions. While the repairs will temporarily affect rental operations, the long-term tax advantages from depreciation could help recover some of the initial financial outlay.

    In terms of negotiations, it would be wise to push for a larger price reduction instead of accepting a cashier's check, given the magnitude of the repairs and the expected loss of rental income during the downtime. You can strengthen your position by documenting the repair estimates and the potential loss of income due to the disruption in bookings. Additionally, consider negotiating the ability to delay or cancel some bookings to complete the necessary work sooner, avoiding further damage.

     Thanks Zachary. You presented a perspective I had completely overlooked.

    Would you still recommend negotiating a lower purchase price vs cashier's check on closing given that we're in a higher income tax bracket and thus capital gains tax could come into play in the future? 

  • Member since 2024 · 107 posts · 55 votes
    1y
    Quote from @Mike Grudzien:

    Unless this is the deal of the century, after reading through the issues, my first thought is: run, don't walk!
    Why buy a box full of (serious) problems?
    Deal of the century with 3.0% interest rate?
    My 2 cents,
    Mike


    It's a poorly decorated, poorly photographed and underperforming STR in a location I love. It's also in an area with no building codes or inspectors and we have yet to find anything in the area without visible problems. These just happened to go beyond what we were able to visually see.

    I'm honestly torn on this one and unless we can get a major financial concession, we are prepared to walk. I have a price point in my head (about 20% off list) at which I do think it would be a really good deal. I can't say I'm confident we'll get there though. We're not afraid to put in a little sweat equity either and are experienced DIYers so I'm confident that we could greatly increase the value. 

  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    1y

    I agree.

    Lower you offer price based on repairs and loss of rents to you during the repairs and your time dealing with the repairs.

  • Michael BaumPro Member
    Olympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    1y

    A lot of good ideas here @Dina Schmid.

    Unless it is the deal of the century like @Mike Grudzien said, I would walk. Just because your inspector found these items doesn't mean he found them all.

    The simple fact that the foundation was incorrectly done, that leads me to suspect that there are many multitudes of issues within. Electrical, plumbing, the list could go on and on. I would be worried that the whole house was done shoddily and will continue to cause you issues as time goes on.

    You have to get the emotion out of the equation. It is clear that you really like the area and the house but sometimes you just have to walk away.

    Having said all that, I would ask for HUGE reductions. Not only to cover the existing issues but the expected issues that will crop up as the house ages.

    You might get it as now that all this is exposed, it has to be disclosed to all potential buyers. This is going to hurt their selling position and a lot of buyers will walk away.

    We found a great property. Lake front with a dock. Great views of the mountains. A really perfect vacation rental. The only issue off the bat was the sinking foundation in one corner. It had dropped about 6 inches. It was build on a hillside. We walked. No way I was buying a place with a sinking foundation. I know it can be repaired/shored up, but it is not a 100% guarantee it will stick.

  • Member since 2024 · 107 posts · 55 votes
    1y
    Quote from @Michael Baum:

    The simple fact that the foundation was incorrectly done, that leads me to suspect that there are many multitudes of issues within. Electrical, plumbing, the list could go on and on. I would be worried that the whole house was done shoddily and will continue to cause you issues as time goes on.

    There were other things noted in the inspection report along these lines and what else is there that we don't know about is a good question to be asking.

    Putting the emotional aside is hard. We've been looking for over 6 months and this would be the second time we've walked because of foundation issues. (First time was pre-offer inspection that drove us away - on a new build.) I'm ready for this to be over.  

  • Michael BaumPro Member
    Olympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Dina Schmid:

    There were other things noted in the inspection report along these lines and what else is there that we don't know about is a good question to be asking.

    Putting the emotional aside is hard. We've been looking for over 6 months and this would be the second time we've walked because of foundation issues. (First time was pre-offer inspection that drove us away - on a new build.) I'm ready for this to be over.  

    Well, I guess you need to decide which you want more. 6 more months of searching or possibly years of headaches and loss of income. That is what I am seeing just from what you said.

    I hate to be the hardliner on this. We have walked away from several properties while looking and still do it today so I understand the FOMO or exhaustion of looking around trying to make something work.

    There will always be another place to check out.

    But the last thing I want is something I have to pull the listing on because I have to repair yet another thing. Buy a solid place that needs cosmetics and get it done right the first time around and be happy for years to come.

    That is my 2 cents.

    EDIT - Where are you looking? I am curious about the area you are investing in.
  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    1y

    There is no way I take your RE agent advice and accept a reduction equal to estimate or even close to it.  I would not even accept reduction equal to estimate and lost rent.  

    We only do a value add if the expected value add is at least 2 times the cost of the value add.   This is our minimum and here is the thinking 1) it is work doing value adds.   Even with the use of contractors, it is work managing the contractors and making various decisions.  2) value adds have risks.  I was overconfident after successfully doing numerous value add rehabs when this spring we took on a rehab of a little unit that was listed as built in 1901 (I believe it was really built in 1920s and 1901 was used because they did not know when it was built).  I had no experience with that age.  In addition little added complexities.  Age meant we did things we had not done previously.   We went way over our expected budget - by far our worse budget miss ever (remarkably we were only 0.5 week over our 2 month timeline).

    Using my rule, take the estimates and double them then add for lost occupancy and that is what I would be seeking or the owner have the work done using licensed contractors and do the work, take the risks, and suffer the vacancy costs.

    If you purchase having to do the work and your appraisal can handle it, the credit at closing is superior to price discount.  It would mean the costs are financed with the property and it raises your basis cost against future cap gains.  

    good luck

  • Member since 2024 · 107 posts · 55 votes
    1y
    Quote from @Michael Baum:
    EDIT - Where are you looking? I am curious about the area you are investing in.
    We're looking at the Red River Gorge area. I really want something that doesn't require 4WD or AWD which limits options. I also call it the Wild, Wild West of homebuilding since it's the closest thing to lawless homebuilding out there. We've seen some crazy stuff.
  • Member since 2024 · 107 posts · 55 votes
    1y
    Quote from @Dan H.:

    There is no way I take your RE agent advice and accept a reduction equal to estimate or even close to it.  I would not even accept reduction equal to estimate and lost rent.  

    We only do a value add if the expected value add is at least 2 times the cost of the value add.   This is our minimum and here is the thinking 1) it is work doing value adds.   Even with the use of contractors, it is work managing the contractors and making various decisions.  2) value adds have risks.  I was overconfident after successfully doing numerous value add rehabs when this spring we took on a rehab of a little unit that was listed as built in 1901 (I believe it was really built in 1920s and 1901 was used because they did not know when it was built).  I had no experience with that age.  In addition little added complexities.  Age meant we did things we had not done previously.   We went way over our expected budget - by far our worse budget miss ever (remarkably we were only 0.5 week over our 2 month timeline).

    Using my rule, take the estimates and double them then add for lost occupancy and that is what I would be seeking or the owner have the work done using licensed contractors and do the work, take the risks, and suffer the vacancy costs.

    If you purchase having to do the work and your appraisal can handle it, the credit at closing is superior to price discount.  It would mean the costs are financed with the property and it raises your basis cost against future cap gains.  

    good luck

    Thanks Dan. The number in my head was 1.5x the estimates, and I can see where you're saying 2x makes sense.

    We are of the same thinking on taking the cash at closing vs price reduction. I know the realtors would prefer that because it increases their commission so I'm sure they'll push for it if that's what we want.
  • Accountant · San Diego, CA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 552 votes
    1y
    Quote from @Dina Schmid:
    Quote from @Account Closed:

    Hey Dina, 

    The extensive repairs discovered during inspection could ultimately provide a tax benefit by increasing the depreciable basis of the property. Major issues like foundation work, bathroom renovations, and deck repairs are considered capital improvements, which can be depreciated over time, allowing you to offset a significant portion of your rental income with those deductions. While the repairs will temporarily affect rental operations, the long-term tax advantages from depreciation could help recover some of the initial financial outlay.

    In terms of negotiations, it would be wise to push for a larger price reduction instead of accepting a cashier's check, given the magnitude of the repairs and the expected loss of rental income during the downtime. You can strengthen your position by documenting the repair estimates and the potential loss of income due to the disruption in bookings. Additionally, consider negotiating the ability to delay or cancel some bookings to complete the necessary work sooner, avoiding further damage.

     Thanks Zachary. You presented a perspective I had completely overlooked.

    Would you still recommend negotiating a lower purchase price vs cashier's check on closing given that we're in a higher income tax bracket and thus capital gains tax could come into play in the future? 

    Hey Dina, while I don't know the full story, negotiating a lower purchase price can't hurt.

  • Bradley BuxtonBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · NV · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 713 votes
    1y

    @Dina Schmid

    Foundation issues on a newer house could indicate an underlying soil issue. Shrink swell slippage etc... Even if "corrected" it could be much more expensive than a 20-30k price reduction. If it doesn't feel right keep searching for a deal. It might be different if it was a primary residence but with renters the wear and tear will be much greater and any small issues magnified. Show the seller where your numbers are and tell them the issues. This gives you some leverage because now they have to disclose every issue to the next seller (at least in NV). It sounds like you know the answer is to walk away. Your agent should also be telling you this too. If you really feel you must get this place get multiple quotes on the largest issues, write an extension to the inspection contingency and do more due diligence.  Real estate is a long game and waiting is the hardest part. 

  • Andrew SteffensBusiness Member
    Tampa, FL · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    1y

    I would walk recommend walking from this unless you will be sitting in a nice equity position once you have gotten the repairs completed.

  • Member since 2024 · 107 posts · 55 votes
    1y

    I appreciate what everyone who chimed in has had to say. We are definitely prepared to walk unless the sellers meet a number I have in my head, which would make it worth my while to move forward. There's nothing else on the market right now that I'm interested in, so no reason not to see this one out and see what the sellers come back to us with.

  • Member since 2024 · 107 posts · 55 votes
    1y

    Release is signed and we're getting our earnest money back.

    Sellers offered a laughable $1500 in concessions - specifically towards the bathroom subfloor issue. Our realtor said she was shocked and so was I. Sellers aren't willing to do anything towards the deck or foundation. They got someone to say that the foundation doesn't need to be repaired right away; that they could just keep an eye on things for a while. (Easy to say when you won't be living in it for long!)

  • Garrett BrownPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2024 · 505 posts · 551 votes
    1y

    That sounds like you were released from a forth coming headache. All of those issues you listed could have even more major underlying issues and if there has been this type of neglience I could imagine what else was over looked behind the walls. 

  • Collin HaysBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    1y

    Offer a reduced price commensurate with the big repairs and call it a day.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Member since 2024 · 27 posts · 12 votes
    1y

    Ultimately, you'll need to weigh the potential costs and benefits of each option. If the seller isn't willing to meet your demands, you may need to walk away from the deal.

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