Market Shift: Are Short-Term Rentals Converting to Long-Term in Your Area?
Property Manager · Orlando, FL · Member since 2024 · 49 posts · 28 votes
Market Shift: Are Short-Term Rentals Converting to Long-Term in Your Area?
Most Popular Reply
In Reno Nv demand remains strong, we are over saturated as so many are. However being a great operator is still working well. The arbitrage crowd that watches pod casts saying how cheap and easy it is continue to try and fail only to sell off all that furniture they just bought. New folks also struggle looking for easy riches. STR is a lot of work but can get more in profits. LTR is so much easier but usually a lot less cash flow as well
37 Replies
- 2ySherry McQuageBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · Moore County, NC · Member since 2020 · 169 posts · 141 votes
Hello!
In Pinehurst NC, known for golf and the US Open, we do have some STR that are often medium term...during the winter months when golf is not as enjoyable, we get medium term renters. Often, it's a soldier from nearby Ft Liberty that needs a place for a few months. Sometimes, people want to move to the area and rent in order to get a feel for what each area offers. There's limited STR in Pinehurst; with VRBO and AIRBNB it seems easier for someone to "scout out" what a property is like, versus looking in other rental (longer term) sites.
I hope this helps!
- Property Manager · Orlando, FL · Member since 2024 · 49 posts · 28 votes2y
Quote from @Sherry McQuage:
Hello!
In Pinehurst NC, known for golf and the US Open, we do have some STR that are often medium term...during the winter months when golf is not as enjoyable, we get medium term renters. Often, it's a soldier from nearby Ft Liberty that needs a place for a few months. Sometimes, people want to move to the area and rent in order to get a feel for what each area offers. There's limited STR in Pinehurst; with VRBO and AIRBNB it seems easier for someone to "scout out" what a property is like, versus looking in other rental (longer term) sites.
I hope this helps!
Thank you for your feedback! I always find it interesting how markets can differ so much!
- 2yAndrew SteffensBusiness MemberTampa, FL · Member since 2022 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Hey Alex - PM from Tampa here. We also have a unit in Kissimmee that has been extremely challenging to fill. Luckily the owner is understanding of the market and has no debt on the unit. Orlando real has been tough. In Tampa we did see a down year last year but are up YoY 23-24. Last year we did see quite a few units to go MTR/LTR, but those were mostly people who bought top of market and high interest rates and were drowning. Our seasoned properties with lower costs hung on fine. Some people also cashed out.
I think PM's now more than ever have to adapt and add value to clients. We invested significantly into our pricing strategy as well as getting on more channels (Marriot Homes and Villas, JetBlue/Allegiant, Google, Booking.com, and more).
Good luck!
Vacation Rentals of Florida53 Reviews - 2yJohn UnderwoodPro MemberInvestor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
I am in vacation destinations like Pigeon Forge and these are not converting to LTRs.
- Property Manager · Orlando, FL · Member since 2024 · 49 posts · 28 votes2yHey Andrew! We are actually in Kissimmee, so we are seeing a lot of that. I don’t actually manage STRs just LTRs. I was just curious due to having so many LTR clients coming from STR. Too much supply and not enough demand. I was speaking with an owner the other days who’s back is up against the wall and just figured they weren’t alone. Best of luck - if you ever need anything out this way, don’t hesitate!
Quote from @Andrew Steffens:
Hey Alex - PM from Tampa here. We also have a unit in Kissimmee that has been extremely challenging to fill. Luckily the owner is understanding of the market and has no debt on the unit. Orlando real has been tough. In Tampa we did see a down year last year but are up YoY 23-24. Last year we did see quite a few units to go MTR/LTR, but those were mostly people who bought top of market and high interest rates and were drowning. Our seasoned properties with lower costs hung on fine. Some people also cashed out.
I think PM's now more than ever have to adapt and add value to clients. We invested significantly into our pricing strategy as well as getting on more channels (Marriot Homes and Villas, JetBlue/Allegiant, Google, Booking.com, and more).
Good luck!
- Property Manager · Orlando, FL · Member since 2024 · 49 posts · 28 votes2yWe are in Kissimmee, home to the happiest place on earth. Too much supply not enough demand - i just think it’s too hard compete with the Walt Disney World hotels. Love Pigeon Forge - used to go out there all the time. I lived in Kentucky for a few years and that was always our getaway. Wishing you continued success!!
Quote from @John Underwood:
I am in vacation destinations like Pigeon Forge and these are not converting to LTRs.
- 2yRyan MoyerBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Orlando Kissimmee Davenport Salt Lake City, Park City · Member since 2019 · 996 posts · 1k+ votes
Quote from @Alex Zweydoff:
We are in Kissimmee, home to the happiest place on earth. Too much supply not enough demand - i just think it’s too hard compete with the Walt Disney World hotels. Love Pigeon Forge - used to go out there all the time. I lived in Kentucky for a few years and that was always our getaway. Wishing you continued success!!Quote from @John Underwood:
I am in vacation destinations like Pigeon Forge and these are not converting to LTRs.
I manage 20+ units in Kissimmee/Davenport.
The area is simply overbuilt for STR which has pushed prices way down and made returns much tighter. Demand remains strong but even on peak dates with every park full the parks can't pack in enough people to fill up all the houses.
Both Universal and Disney are expanding (Universal sooner) so that will drive up demand even more, but the problem is there is endless land out there so supply will always have a chance to catch up if developers get wind of new demand.
That's why, at least for my own purchases, I'm focusing on areas with limited buildability where supply can't just scale in lock-step with demand for eternity. Broken Bow is another major market I would never consider for this reason, having just visited there. Even if demand increases any advantage to the side of demand will only ever be short lived, as there is endless cheap land out there for supply to quickly catch up and surpass that demand.
Cosmic Vacations4.9174 Reviews - Property Manager · Orlando, FL · Member since 2024 · 49 posts · 28 votes2yAppreciate the insight that makes a lot of sense. They were popping up everywhere for a while.
Quote from @Ryan Moyer:
Quote from @Alex Zweydoff:
We are in Kissimmee, home to the happiest place on earth. Too much supply not enough demand - i just think it’s too hard compete with the Walt Disney World hotels. Love Pigeon Forge - used to go out there all the time. I lived in Kentucky for a few years and that was always our getaway. Wishing you continued success!!Quote from @John Underwood:
I am in vacation destinations like Pigeon Forge and these are not converting to LTRs.
I manage 20+ units in Kissimmee/Davenport.
The area is simply overbuilt for STR which has pushed prices way down and made returns much tighter. Demand remains strong but even on peak dates with every park full the parks can't pack in enough people to fill up all the houses.
Both Universal and Disney are expanding (Universal sooner) so that will drive up demand even more, but the problem is there is endless land out there so supply will always have a chance to catch up if developers get wind of new demand.
That's why, at least for my own purchases, I'm focusing on areas with limited buildability where supply can't just scale in lock-step with demand for eternity. Broken Bow is another major market I would never consider for this reason, having just visited there. Even if demand increases any advantage to the side of demand will only ever be short lived, as there is endless cheap land out there for supply to quickly catch up and surpass that demand.
- 2yMichael BaumPro MemberOlympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
We are quite rural right on Lake Coeur d'Alene and there aren't a lot of reasons to rent long term.
- 2yAdam BartomeoBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Ever since Hurricane Ian hit Ft Myers, Cape Coral, and Lee County areas we have seen a lot of transition from VR to annual. This as well as a number of other factors have increased the inventory of annual rentals thus decreasing the rent prices drastically.
Bartomeo Property Management4.7143 Reviews - Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes2y
Maybe they were never truly permanent STRs. 2020-2022 was an anomaly due to the pandemic and massive government stimulus.
- 2yTodd AndersonPro MemberReal Estate Agent · Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2023 · 392 posts · 175 votes
It seems that there are still people looking for both STR and annual in SW Florida. I have found with the investors that I work with that the changing factor is the inventory. Builders are still going as fast as possible and with rates high the buyer are on the sidelines. I have 3 STRs listed for sale right now and they are still showing 90% occupancy and strong revenue. Inventory is just very high and the economy is volatile in an election year.
- Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes2y
This spring I was thinking about turning my airbnb into a LTR as last years numbers were terrible but for whatever reason this year the airbnb is doing amazing. Nightly rates up and running at very low vacancy had a few months over 90% even where any little gaps get filled. Definitely keeping it as airbnb now. Located on north side of Chicago.
- 2ySarah KensingerPro MemberReal Estate Consultant · OH · Member since 2023 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
We're also hearing things about Orlando and how even the large 10-12 bedroom, extremely themed out properties, are doing poorly. We have felt for the homeowners and PM that are in the area! We focus on nature areas that draw tourists in, so we haven't seen any major changes from STR to LTR. To be honest a market that is centered more on nature attractions rather than manmade or "built" attractions, seems to not fluctuate so badly.
In Reno Nv demand remains strong, we are over saturated as so many are. However being a great operator is still working well. The arbitrage crowd that watches pod casts saying how cheap and easy it is continue to try and fail only to sell off all that furniture they just bought. New folks also struggle looking for easy riches. STR is a lot of work but can get more in profits. LTR is so much easier but usually a lot less cash flow as well
- 2yRay WilliamsBusiness MemberLender · Denver, CO · Member since 2017 · 170 posts · 76 votes
In Denver you can't STR unless it is your primary residence. As an investor I personally have two in Colorado. They were bought intentionally and our focus on hospitality is also very intentional. One was just acquired, the other is top of its market in a resort town. For those who relied on buy, cash flow, this isn't a Motel 6 model any longer. To succeed you have to stand out, and when guests are paying premiums to stay they deserve what they pay for.
- 2yKiKi ChaseBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2022 · 184 posts · 75 votes
@Alex Zweydoff, good insight! Personally in Indianapolis, IN, we have not seen too much change in the market from STR to LTR. I think people are now discovering more MTR in the area, so I've seen more of that! I'm interested to see if this will spread to more markets in your area, or into different states!
Brentwood Collective54 Reviews - Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 17k+ votes2y
Quote from @Alex Zweydoff:
Hey Andrew! We are actually in Kissimmee, so we are seeing a lot of that. I don’t actually manage STRs just LTRs. I was just curious due to having so many LTR clients coming from STR. Too much supply and not enough demand. I was speaking with an owner the other days who’s back is up against the wall and just figured they weren’t alone. Best of luck - if you ever need anything out this way, don’t hesitate!Quote from @Andrew Steffens:
Hey Alex - PM from Tampa here. We also have a unit in Kissimmee that has been extremely challenging to fill. Luckily the owner is understanding of the market and has no debt on the unit. Orlando real has been tough. In Tampa we did see a down year last year but are up YoY 23-24. Last year we did see quite a few units to go MTR/LTR, but those were mostly people who bought top of market and high interest rates and were drowning. Our seasoned properties with lower costs hung on fine. Some people also cashed out.
I think PM's now more than ever have to adapt and add value to clients. We invested significantly into our pricing strategy as well as getting on more channels (Marriot Homes and Villas, JetBlue/Allegiant, Google, Booking.com, and more).
Good luck!
God, I hope so. I have a STR in Four Corners and it has been a non-stop battle with the bottom feeders for occupancy. I have a nice sized house (3k sf) in a nice community close to everything, on a lake, fenced in yard with nice pool & screen house, all 5-star reviews, but both last summer and this summer have been about 50% occupancy. I've said it before on here - lucky I don't have to rent this place at all or I would be losing my ***. We come down in the winter and a couple times throughout the year and do repairs, upgrades etc and it's nice in the winter, but if I needed this place to make any money I'd be hurting. There's just too many $99/night places around here and too many cheap guests, so if your rates are at $200/night or higher (mine are just under) it is a real battle. All this summer every booking has been last minute, within a week or so of the stay, so it's obvious to me people are still just sitting on the sidelines looking for the best deals since there's so much supply out there.
I think it will start thinning out over the next few years - I've seen a few places in my own community that I know were STRs that have been sold as owner-occupied (hard to make a 4/3 STR work down here when you're paying $450k or more), so as that starts to happen more and the building pushes even further out into the hinterlands I have hope for the future. Not to make any real money but at least make my expenses!
Skyline Properties - Property Manager · Orlando, FL · Member since 2024 · 49 posts · 28 votes2y
Quote from @KiKi Chase:
@Alex Zweydoff, good insight! Personally in Indianapolis, IN, we have not seen too much change in the market from STR to LTR. I think people are now discovering more MTR in the area, so I've seen more of that! I'm interested to see if this will spread to more markets in your area, or into different states!
That's is what was wondering too! I am connecting with a few other property managers who handle STR in the area. Interested to see their feedback.
- Property Manager · Orlando, FL · Member since 2024 · 49 posts · 28 votes2y
Quote from @JD Martin:
Quote from @Alex Zweydoff:
Hey Andrew! We are actually in Kissimmee, so we are seeing a lot of that. I don’t actually manage STRs just LTRs. I was just curious due to having so many LTR clients coming from STR. Too much supply and not enough demand. I was speaking with an owner the other days who’s back is up against the wall and just figured they weren’t alone. Best of luck - if you ever need anything out this way, don’t hesitate!Quote from @Andrew Steffens:
Hey Alex - PM from Tampa here. We also have a unit in Kissimmee that has been extremely challenging to fill. Luckily the owner is understanding of the market and has no debt on the unit. Orlando real has been tough. In Tampa we did see a down year last year but are up YoY 23-24. Last year we did see quite a few units to go MTR/LTR, but those were mostly people who bought top of market and high interest rates and were drowning. Our seasoned properties with lower costs hung on fine. Some people also cashed out.
I think PM's now more than ever have to adapt and add value to clients. We invested significantly into our pricing strategy as well as getting on more channels (Marriot Homes and Villas, JetBlue/Allegiant, Google, Booking.com, and more).
Good luck!
God, I hope so. I have a STR in Four Corners and it has been a non-stop battle with the bottom feeders for occupancy. I have a nice sized house (3k sf) in a nice community close to everything, on a lake, fenced in yard with nice pool & screen house, all 5-star reviews, but both last summer and this summer have been about 50% occupancy. I've said it before on here - lucky I don't have to rent this place at all or I would be losing my ***. We come down in the winter and a couple times throughout the year and do repairs, upgrades etc and it's nice in the winter, but if I needed this place to make any money I'd be hurting. There's just too many $99/night places around here and too many cheap guests, so if your rates are at $200/night or higher (mine are just under) it is a real battle. All this summer every booking has been last minute, within a week or so of the stay, so it's obvious to me people are still just sitting on the sidelines looking for the best deals since there's so much supply out there.
I think it will start thinning out over the next few years - I've seen a few places in my own community that I know were STRs that have been sold as owner-occupied (hard to make a 4/3 STR work down here when you're paying $450k or more), so as that starts to happen more and the building pushes even further out into the hinterlands I have hope for the future. Not to make any real money but at least make my expenses!
Yes, that is what everyone I have talked to wanted. They would have been happy if they would have at least broke even. I feel bad, everyone got excited about STRs and bought at the top of the market. Some of the ones I've talked to are in really bad situations and being held hostage by their managers who are making it so difficult to get out of their contracts which is forcing them to drown. I have talked to some who have been way under 50% occupancy which poses a lot of questions in my head. Saying rings true in every market - your property is only as good as your property manager. Happy you are in a much better position than most!
- Property Manager · Orlando, FL · Member since 2024 · 49 posts · 28 votes2yHospitality and cleanliness are the two biggest things I hear that turn people away. Seems you're on the right track! Wishing you much success!
Quote from @Ray Williams:
In Denver you can't STR unless it is your primary residence. As an investor I personally have two in Colorado. They were bought intentionally and our focus on hospitality is also very intentional. One was just acquired, the other is top of its market in a resort town. For those who relied on buy, cash flow, this isn't a Motel 6 model any longer. To succeed you have to stand out, and when guests are paying premiums to stay they deserve what they pay for.
- Property Manager · Orlando, FL · Member since 2024 · 49 posts · 28 votes2y
Quote from @John Litz:
In Reno Nv demand remains strong, we are over saturated as so many are. However being a great operator is still working well. The arbitrage crowd that watches pod casts saying how cheap and easy it is continue to try and fail only to sell off all that furniture they just bought. New folks also struggle looking for easy riches. STR is a lot of work but can get more in profits. LTR is so much easier but usually a lot less cash flow as well
Agreed! It's all about the product you present. You can't set and forget.
- Property Manager · Orlando, FL · Member since 2024 · 49 posts · 28 votes2y
Quote from @Sarah Kensinger:
We're also hearing things about Orlando and how even the large 10-12 bedroom, extremely themed out properties, are doing poorly. We have felt for the homeowners and PM that are in the area! We focus on nature areas that draw tourists in, so we haven't seen any major changes from STR to LTR. To be honest a market that is centered more on nature attractions rather than manmade or "built" attractions, seems to not fluctuate so badly.
Being from Orlando originally, I would agree. Your spending all that time at the "place" because your paying all that money. I feel the same every time I talk to one, I really want to help but they are up against a wall in their contracts usually. If a client was in a bad place (or unhappy within reason) - I would do my best to help them as much as I can but I guess when you are having them all leave you have to hold on by the boot straps.
Side note - I just leased a STR to LTR and had the coolest Harry Potter and Elsa rooms. The most intriqite things I have seen in a long time. Thankfully she bought like that and did not have an emotional attachment.
- Property Manager · Orlando, FL · Member since 2024 · 49 posts · 28 votes2y
Quote from @Henry Lazerow:
This spring I was thinking about turning my airbnb into a LTR as last years numbers were terrible but for whatever reason this year the airbnb is doing amazing. Nightly rates up and running at very low vacancy had a few months over 90% even where any little gaps get filled. Definitely keeping it as airbnb now. Located on north side of Chicago.
Awesome! Glad to see some wins out there!
- Property Manager · Orlando, FL · Member since 2024 · 49 posts · 28 votes2yInventory, you either love it or you hate it. Depends who you're representing I guess! There is enough room for both - this chain has been a great for perspective. I am heading to Cape Coral next month, actually never been so excited to check it out!
Quote from @Todd Anderson:
It seems that there are still people looking for both STR and annual in SW Florida. I have found with the investors that I work with that the changing factor is the inventory. Builders are still going as fast as possible and with rates high the buyer are on the sidelines. I have 3 STRs listed for sale right now and they are still showing 90% occupancy and strong revenue. Inventory is just very high and the economy is volatile in an election year.
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