Rental Property Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2015 · 96 posts · 23 votes
Good morning all, I listened to episode 442 of the podcast a couple of weeks ago in which Bryce Stewart brought up the importance of workers comp waiver forms. I own properties in New York state and Oregon and I hire individuals to do work in each state (snow shoveling/plowing, lawn mowing, cleaning, etc.). Do others utilize workers comp waiver forms? Is this something that I should be doing? Are there other/better ways to protect myself? For context a own a total of four properties (10 units). Thanks!
I just asked my insurance guy and unfortunately he has never heard of it. I'm about to post a very similar post in the forum to try and find anyone in the BP community who has utilized this form.
I just asked my insurance guy and unfortunately he has never heard of it. I'm about to post a very similar post in the forum to try and find anyone in the BP community who has utilized this form.
Thanks for bumping this, I was surprised I did not receive any responses. Interesting that your insurance rep has never heard of it...
Depending on the insurance coverage you have, your insurance carrier might provide a form. Essentially you should have a contract with the contractor and also have him sign this waiver stating that: (1) he/she is an independent contractor; and (2) he/she does not carry WC Insurance as the owner/sole employee of their business.
But it really depends on why you are doing. I didn't listen to the referenced podcast so I don't know what the idea behind the suggestion was.
Disclaimer: While I’m an attorney licensed to practice in PA, I’m not your attorney. What I wrote above does not create an attorney/client relationship between us. I wrote the above for informational purposes. Do not rely on it for legal advice. Always consult with your attorney before you rely on the above information.
Sounds like insurance brokers don't provide this paper at least the one I work with doesn't.
The point of the document we are looking for is to be covered against a WC claim from anyone working on one of our properties such as handyman or else.
Sounds like insurance brokers don't provide this paper at least the one I work with doesn't.
The point of the document we are looking for is to be covered against a WC claim from anyone working on one of our properties such as handyman or else.
Following. A contractor I know just told me one of his workers just threaten to sue him for $20K for injury he got from using the pressure nail gun while working at a house of another landlord. So we definitely need to have a waiver form handy to use in the future.
Good point @Ben Guttman, especially for big renovations and new construction or if you have enough units that justifies establishing a relationship at the first place because the maintenance work is consistent.
I would not bet my hat that the guy that fixed up a toilet leak for me a month ago has insurance.
I talked to an attorney today and pretty much it seems this would be handled in having your own contract when buying work or repairs to clearly define that the person is not your employee. I'll follow-up on that when I know more.
That's a separate issue. Your obligation to pay for WC policy and deal with WC claims is whether the person in question is an employee. Now you could try to prevent them being an employee but making them sign an independent contractor agreement of sorts. But ultimately the law doesn't care what the agreement says. The classification between an employee and an independent contractor is governed by Federal and State law. The agreement may nudge situation towards one direction. But what it says on the agreement doesn't actually control their classification.
There are other kind of waiver forms that would allow the independent contractors from obtaining workers comp for themselves. But that's a different issue.
Disclaimer: While I’m an attorney licensed to practice in PA, I’m not your attorney. What I wrote above does not create an attorney/client relationship between us. I wrote the above for informational purposes. Do not rely on it for legal advice. Always consult with your attorney before you rely on the above information.
@Todd Ashley you contractors need a ce200 for which they apply for on the ny state website, it take about 15 bbn mins to get. Only for businesses who have no employee's and is owner operated. If you have employees in nys then you are required to have and maintain workmans comp
This is the verbatim excerpt from the said podcast:
Bryce Stewart: So it was trying and difficult. And the number one point I walked away with was either you have to have somebody who has an insurance certificate that they’re sending to you. Or if you’re having somebody do side work on one of your properties and they’re not an insured contractor because the kind of work that they’re doing is not something that’s insured, you want to have somebody, and talk to your insurance agents about this, you want somebody who has what’s called a workers’ compensation waiver form. It’s them agreeing to not pursue a workers’ comp claim if they happen to be injured. They’re waiving their right to workers’ compensation. So talk to your insurance agent about a workers comp waiver form. There’s probably some big investors out there right now who tomorrow are having people doing work in their properties who do not have a certificate or it’s somebody’s cousin helping them do demo because they’re doing demolition on a unit and the person doesn’t have adequate medical insurance. Guys, this is so important that I actually wrote a song that I’m going to play for.
Essentially the form makes contractors state that they: (1) are independent contractors; (2) don't have workers comp coverage for themselves on the basis that they are owners/sole proprietors; and (3) will not pursue (or acknowledge that they won't receive) workers comp benefit from the owner.
These forms serve a few purposes. If you actually own a business and have workers comp insurance, your premiums can increase after an annual audit if you don't get the independent contractors to either: (1) provide a COI with workers comp; or (2) sign these waivers. It could also be a way to establish that the contractors in question is an independent contractors versus an employee. But having the contractor sign this form wouldn't be the dispositive issue for whether he or she is an independent contractor.
Disclaimer: While I’m an attorney licensed to practice in PA, I’m not your attorney. What I wrote above does not create an attorney/client relationship between us. I wrote the above for informational purposes. Do not rely on it for legal advice. Always consult with your attorney before you rely on the above information.
The Workers comp laws are state specific. In NY as in most states, the employer is required to provide coverage for all employees. The Workers comp laws define who is an employee and and the Workers Comp. board will determine the injured person's status. They use tests of who controls the work, how they were paid, did they supply their own tools, do they work for others, who supplied the materials, is there a contract, etc... The tests are based on the information at the time of loss. You really need to discuss this with your agent and attorney to see what course of action might be best:
1. Use only contractors with workers comp (make sure the owner is not excluded) and get proof
2. Get your own policy and be prepared to get charged for any uninsured subs (in NY you will probably have to purchase a NY Disability policy as well as the WC)