Should I replace my gas boiler and water heater?

[Jacob Gelinas]

I bought a three family property almost exactly a year ago and the three gas boilers are about 15 years old. I live in one of the units and had to replace the water heater for my unit in July. Now the first floor tenant’s boiler needs some work and his water heater is getting old as well. I had a technician come to check out the issue on the boiler and he suggested I just replace the boiler and water heater with one of the high efficiency combination units.

There is a rebate from the local gas company for $1200 but that would still put me around $6k all said and done. Is it worth swapping to one of these combination units or just fixing the gas boiler for now and replacing the water heater? I can probably fix the existing boiler and get a new water heater for under $1k all together. But do the high efficiency combination units justify higher rents? And would that plus the peace of mind of having a brand new system outweigh the additional cost? Looking to get people’s opinions and whether they’ve had the same dilemma.

Thanks!

[Nathan Gesner]

The average life-span is 15-20 years. You're creeping up on it but that's not a guarantee the thing is going to fail. 

My practice is to replace it after 15 years unless my trusted plumber advises me otherwise. If you can afford it, do it.

[Michael Craig]

Installing the tank less units will not justify a rent increase but will increase the property value and the residents will benefit from a lower utility bill. I installed two tank less units at my primary residence (a duplex), because of the rebate and the fact that I plan on living here for the next few years, reducing my utility bill. The life expectancy is also estimated to be 5-10 years longer than traditional units. I probably wouldn't install tank less units at a triplex though, especially if I wasn't going to live there for long.

The existing furnaces will likely run for a few more years if you have them serviced (get a skilled technicians opinion of course). A less expensive option would be to change out the water heaters now and phase out the furnaces (maybe do one per year). Otherwise, if you have the capital change them all out now for the peace of mind.

The best thing would be to get estimates for all the options and go from there (cost of converting to tank less units, cost to replace all units with traditional units, cost to change only the water heaters and service the furnaces, etc).

[Jacob Gelinas]

@Nathan G. Thanks for the reply. You mentioned you replace your boilers after 15 years unless advised otherwise. Have you installed any of the tankless combi units in your properties before? Would like to get an idea on reliability

[Jacob Gelinas]

@Michael Craig Thanks for the reply. I am having similar thoughts to yours. I don’t know if I want to invest the capital in the tankless units as I don’t plan to live here forever. The total cost for all 3 units would be close to $20k. Not to mention the additional maintenance required. You mentioned that they do have a longer life expectancy though. I would have thought that the conventional style gas boilers would last longer since they’re much simpler. Any idea why they’re supposed to last longer?

[Pat L.]

Originally posted by @Michael Craig:

Installing the tank less units will not justify a rent increase but will increase the property value and the residents will benefit from a lower utility bill. I installed two tank less units at my primary residence (a duplex), because of the rebate and the fact that I plan on living here for the next few years, reducing my utility bill. The life expectancy is also estimated to be 5-10 years longer than traditional units. I probably wouldn't install tank less units at a triplex though, especially if I wasn't going to live there for long.

The existing furnaces will likely run for a few more years if you have them serviced (get a skilled technicians opinion of course). A less expensive option would be to change out the water heaters now and phase out the furnaces (maybe do one per year). Otherwise, if you have the capital change them all out now for the peace of mind.

The best thing would be to get estimates for all the options and go from there (cost of converting to tank less units, cost to replace all units with traditional units, cost to change only the water heaters and service the furnaces, etc).

Nice looking retrofit/replacement I love the Navien product. Now what did that cost you???

[Max T.]

If I have multiple water heaters the same age and one needs replacing I will generally replace them all at once. This cuts down on the cost because the plumber can do them in the same day. Water heaters are cheap in the grand scheme.

Boilers are a little different. My old boilers tend to last forever (compared to newer forced air furnaces) so I will generally lean towards repairing them when necessary. The repairs (so far) have been fairly minor - thermocouplers and various switches, thermostats, valves, etc.

[Andrew B.]

Originally posted by @Jacob Gelinas:

I bought a three family property almost exactly a year ago and the three gas boilers are about 15 years old. I live in one of the units and had to replace the water heater for my unit in July. Now the first floor tenant’s boiler needs some work and his water heater is getting old as well. I had a technician come to check out the issue on the boiler and he suggested I just replace the boiler and water heater with one of the high efficiency combination units.

There is a rebate from the local gas company for $1200 but that would still put me around $6k all said and done. Is it worth swapping to one of these combination units or just fixing the gas boiler for now and replacing the water heater? I can probably fix the existing boiler and get a new water heater for under $1k all together. But do the high efficiency combination units justify higher rents? And would that plus the peace of mind of having a brand new system outweigh the additional cost? Looking to get people’s opinions and whether they’ve had the same dilemma.

Thanks!

I'm gunna admit, I have no experience with the combo units, but my philosophy is to keep items separate whenever possible. My logic is that if one piece breaks, I lose both units instead of one. If the units are separate I have the option to replace just the water heater, or just the boiler.

Just food for thought.

[Nathan Gesner]

Originally posted by @Jacob Gelinas:

@Nathan G. Thanks for the reply. You mentioned you replace your boilers after 15 years unless advised otherwise. Have you installed any of the tankless combi units in your properties before? Would like to get an idea on reliability

I've never used one but my research tells me they are good for small units because they save space. They are not good for larger homes because they can't handle the demand of multiple taps like two showers or a dishwasher and shower simultaneously. The overall cost is a little higher but you may save a little in utility expenses. If your tenant pays the utility bill, you won't even see that savings. Also, if the unit dies, you will lose heat and hot water both at the same time and have to repair/replace the entire system.

I would stick to a traditional boiler and water heater unless space were a factor to consider.

[Nathan Gesner]

Oh, and nobody can really answer the question about reliability because most of them haven't been around long enough. They likely claim the same life span as a typical boiler or water heater, 10 - 15 years. That doesn't mean anything because they probably only give you an actual warranty for one year or three years.

[Jerry Lucker]

@Jacob Gelinas

I would definitely replace.

[Jacob Gelinas]

@Max T. Thanks for the reply. I replaced the first water heater myself and that was not too bad. About $800 all said and done. If I had to pay for the labor I’m sure it would have been much more.

As you mentioned, I’d like someone to just repair the boiler that’s there rather than replace it. I was there when it was serviced and it looks great inside. I just don’t think the tech sees enough money in repairing it for me. I’m almost thinking if I pay him to replace the other water heater rather than doing it myself, maybe I can get him to fix the boiler too rather than replacing both. I get the feeling that he doesn’t think repairing the existing boiler is worth his time.

[Jacob Gelinas]

@Andrew B. Thanks for the reply. I think that’s a great point and that’s really one of the things that worries me about those combi units.

[Jacob Gelinas]

@Nathan G. Thanks for your reply. Luckily space is not an issue for me and the current boilers and water heaters fit just fine in the basement. You raise a great point about the test of time too. The traditional style boilers have been around for a long time and they just work. They’re also extremely simple. I’ve seen the tankless units opened up and they seem to be much more complex. That is a bit of a turn off to be honest. Just more to go wrong

[Jacob Gelinas]

@Jerry Lucker Thanks for your reply. Are your thoughts to replace with traditional style or with the new style?

[Bernardino Graziano]

@Jacob Gelinas

I just bought a house and the hot water tank was 32 years old and still working properly. I had it replaced today, it always cost less to replace something when you plan it compared to when it just goes out. Because if it goes out, it’s going to be on a Saturday night when your plumber is out of town and there is a snow storm outside.

[Jacob Gelinas]

@Bernardino Graziano Wow, that’s insane!! I’ve never heard of a water heater lasting that long! Haha. I agree though, I’d like to swap this one out before it’s too late. The one I replaced myself was the water heater for my unit luckily. Plus that was back in July. Needless to say I was happy it happened when it did. I also found it in time before it flooded my basement and ran up my water bill!

[Max T.]

@Jacob Gelinas

Water heaters sound more expensive near you. Here we can get them for around 500.

[Parker Eberhard]

@Nathan G. I would agree, especially now that many of the new units have a myriad of computer controlled components. How many computers have lasted 10-15 years?

[Jacob Gelinas]

@Max T. Water heaters are around the same price where I am. I’m was in a pinch and didn’t have the time to research what one to get (came home to water on the basement floor after work). I ended up buying a “middle of the road” water heater. Not the cheapest but not the most expensive either

[Jacob Gelinas]

@Michael Craig @Max T. @Nathan G. The technician quoted me at $5300 to replace the boiler and water heater. Does that seem like a reasonable price or is that high? I’m sure pricing is a bit different in your respective areas but anything helps

[Nathan Gesner]

Originally posted by @Jacob Gelinas:

@Michael Craig @Max T. @Nathan G. The technician quoted me at $5300 to replace the boiler and water heater. Does that seem like a reasonable price or is that high? I’m sure pricing is a bit different in your respective areas but anything helps

$3,500 - $6,000 for a new boiler. Water heater $700 - $1000. That's my experience.

You can always look for another quote.