Skip to content
×
PRO
Pro Members Get Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
$0
TODAY
$69.00/month when billed monthly.
$32.50/month when billed annually.
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime
Already a Pro Member? Sign in here

Join Over 3 Million Real Estate Investors

Create a free BiggerPockets account to comment, participate, and connect with over 3 million real estate investors.
Use your real name
By signing up, you indicate that you agree to the BiggerPockets Terms & Conditions.
The community here is like my own little personal real estate army that I can depend upon to help me through ANY problems I come across.
General Landlording & Rental Properties
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

Updated over 5 years ago, 04/04/2019

User Stats

44
Posts
19
Votes
Ian K.
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Denver, CO
19
Votes |
44
Posts

Tenants turned off heat, pipes froze. Advice needed

Ian K.
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Denver, CO
Posted

My tenants turned down the heat since they had purchased a home but were still under lease for a few weeks with my rental.  They turned the heat all the way down, I guess around 40 or 45 (it's past the last number of 50).  We got deep freeze and pipes burst.  I got it all repaired for about $1500 and a lot of my time.  The part of the lease that pertains to this states: 

"The Tenant(s) agrees to keep premises in good, clean condition, - to make NO alterations, including painting; to replace glass broken or cracked as a result of Tenant’s neglect or careless use of the premises, to repay the Landlord the cost of repairs made necessary by the neglect or careless use of the premises by theTenant(s), and to surrender the premises at the termination hereof in like condition as when taken, reasonable wear by the elements and ordinary wear and tear excepted."

There is nothing in the lease that says they have to keep the heat at a certain temperature. 

The deposit I have is $1575.  They were good tenants and left the place in otherwise good/fair condition.  

How would you handle this?  What would you charge the tenants? Thanks in advance

User Stats

8,351
Posts
4,355
Votes
Colleen F.
Pro Member
  • Investor
  • Narragansett, RI
4,355
Votes |
8,351
Posts
Colleen F.
Pro Member
  • Investor
  • Narragansett, RI
Replied

See what Colorado owners say but if it was soley their negligence that caused the freezing they bear at least some responsibility  I do have a minimum temperature stated in my lease though.  Are you sure they did not turn it off? 
If it is past the lowest number on the thermostat the intention seems to be to turn it off.  In addition the house had to be really cold for quite a while for pipes to freeze and burst. 

User Stats

14,339
Posts
11,022
Votes
Theresa Harris
Pro Member
#2 General Landlording & Rental Properties Contributor
11,022
Votes |
14,339
Posts
Theresa Harris
Pro Member
#2 General Landlording & Rental Properties Contributor
Replied

They need to take the responsibility as they turned down the heat.  I'm guessing they turned it off.  They should have checked on the home, especially if they knew the heat was turned down and you had a cold snap.

  • Theresa Harris
  • Baselane logo
    Baselane
    |
    Sponsored
    Baselane is the Ultimate All-In-One Banking Platform for REI Built with integrated rent collection & bookkeeping to save time so you can grow your RE business.

    User Stats

    6,776
    Posts
    7,305
    Votes
    Matthew Paul#2 Contractors Contributor
    • Severna Park, MD
    7,305
    Votes |
    6,776
    Posts
    Matthew Paul#2 Contractors Contributor
    • Severna Park, MD
    Replied

    Give them $75 back on their security deposit . They neglected to keep the place warm enough 

    User Stats

    13,926
    Posts
    12,725
    Votes
    Replied

    They lose their deposit. Take it all. My guess with your vehicle gas and other miscilanious expences you will be well over $1575.

    User Stats

    44
    Posts
    19
    Votes
    Ian K.
    • Real Estate Investor
    • Denver, CO
    19
    Votes |
    44
    Posts
    Ian K.
    • Real Estate Investor
    • Denver, CO
    Replied

    Thanks everyone for your responses. 

    User Stats

    5,116
    Posts
    5,168
    Votes
    Kyle J.
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Northern, CA
    5,168
    Votes |
    5,116
    Posts
    Kyle J.
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Northern, CA
    Replied

    Take this with a grain of salt since I live in a state where pipes don't freeze, but seems to me if it was that important that the heat needed to be kept above a certain temperature in order for the pipes not to freeze/burst, then that's definitely something that should have been spelled out in the lease. 

    User Stats

    67
    Posts
    70
    Votes
    Jonathan W.
    • Kansas City, KS
    70
    Votes |
    67
    Posts
    Jonathan W.
    • Kansas City, KS
    Replied

    @Ian Kearns

    Only keep if you can prove they turned it off. If they kept it at 40, that should be warm enough in the house. Your lease does not say they have to maintain a temp. What leg of your lease would hold up in court? I would say none.

    User Stats

    1,323
    Posts
    734
    Votes
    Teri Feeney Styers
    Pro Member
    • Real Estate Agent
    • Grand Junction, CO
    734
    Votes |
    1,323
    Posts
    Teri Feeney Styers
    Pro Member
    • Real Estate Agent
    • Grand Junction, CO
    Replied

    @Ian K. did you require them to carry a renter's insurance policy? It should cover this... 

  • Teri Feeney Styers
  • User Stats

    9,999
    Posts
    18,557
    Votes
    Joe Splitrock
    Pro Member
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Sioux Falls, SD
    18,557
    Votes |
    9,999
    Posts
    Joe Splitrock
    Pro Member
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Sioux Falls, SD
    ModeratorReplied

    My lease specifies a minimum temperature and so does my move-out document. My lease also states that a property is not to be left vacant without someone checking on it (even if a tenant is just on vacation). I check on any vacant house every couple days. I run the cold water while I am there to keep water from sitting in pipes, which can increase odds of it freezing, especially on exterior walls which is common in kitchens.

    Even though your lease doesn't specifically call out this information, they are still responsible for the damage caused by their neglect. 

    As far as how to deal with this, I would return $75 and include a copy of the $1500 receipt for the damage. Explain to them that the $1500 does not include any charges for your time dealing with the problem. The reason I would return the $75 is so they cash they check which is proof of receipt and could even be considered acknowledgement of the charges. Send the return check and letter via certified mail requiring signature.

    They may try to argue that they left the temperature above freezing, but the problem is a thermostat only holds to internal temperature at the center of the house. The exterior areas, walls and basement will measure 10-15 degrees less. That is not an issue if the house is set to room temperature or above (60-75F is generally room temperature). The other issue is when water is not being run regularly, it increase likelihood of freezing. 

    I am sure they intended to save some money on the gas bill, so this turned out to be a costly lesson in thermodynamics.

    Also don't take this wrong, but as a landlord it is negligent to not check on vacant properties. You could have ended up with squatters or a meth lab (that happened recently in my city in a vacant rental property). 

  • Joe Splitrock
  • User Stats

    1,168
    Posts
    1,708
    Votes
    Ryan Murdock
    Pro Member
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Maui, HI
    1,708
    Votes |
    1,168
    Posts
    Ryan Murdock
    Pro Member
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Maui, HI
    ModeratorReplied

    Definitely tenant negligence. Take the entire deposit. They are lucky the damages weren't more costly.

    User Stats

    1,936
    Posts
    2,143
    Votes
    Ned J.
    Pro Member
    • Investor
    • Manteca, CA
    2,143
    Votes |
    1,936
    Posts
    Ned J.
    Pro Member
    • Investor
    • Manteca, CA
    Replied

    I like the idea Joe had of refunding the $75 and letting them cash the check as proof of acceptance....its worth the $75 to have that piece IF they fight the deduction

    I'm in CA, so I don't have to deal with this issue but if I were in an area where pipe freezing is common, I would have very specific language in my lease for the next time

  • Ned J.
  • User Stats

    6
    Posts
    2
    Votes
    Replied

    Turn in an insurance claim. Since they were still "living there" the policy should cover busted pipes since the home was occupied.

    Vacasa logo
    Vacasa
    |
    Sponsored
    We do the work. You get the ROI. We do it all for your vacation rental. All—marketing, pricing, guest requests, housekeeping & more.

    User Stats

    185
    Posts
    61
    Votes
    Taylor Roeling
    • Fort Collins, CO
    61
    Votes |
    185
    Posts
    Taylor Roeling
    • Fort Collins, CO
    Replied

    @Ian K. I agree with most everyone here about not giving them their deposit back - have you ever mentioned to them to not put the thermostat below a certain temperature? It is generally common sense, but I'm curious to see if you ever said anything about it to them directly even if it wasn't the lease

    User Stats

    1,281
    Posts
    1,308
    Votes
    Josh C.
    Pro Member
    • Property Manager
    • Indianapolis, IN
    1,308
    Votes |
    1,281
    Posts
    Josh C.
    Pro Member
    • Property Manager
    • Indianapolis, IN
    Replied

    @Kyle J.

    In cold areas you just know that. No different than you aren’t supposed to leave a burning candle on all night right next to curtains. Or don’t leave the front door open when you go on vacation. Other things not in our lease. That is obvious negligence and the deposit should be kept. Unless they just moved there from Arizona or something they knew they were supposed to keep heat on. They just didn’t want to pay for it.

  • Josh C.
  • User Stats

    401
    Posts
    244
    Votes
    Ryan Proffit
    • Saint Joseph, MO
    244
    Votes |
    401
    Posts
    Ryan Proffit
    • Saint Joseph, MO
    Replied

    @Jonathan W.

    Setting the thermostat at 40 during super cold weather isn’t enough to keep pipes from freezing. That will keep the thermo at 40, but the location of the pipes will be much colder.

    User Stats

    45
    Posts
    20
    Votes
    Joni Chin
    • Investor
    • Honolulu, HI
    20
    Votes |
    45
    Posts
    Joni Chin
    • Investor
    • Honolulu, HI
    Replied

    @Ian Kearns

    This just happened to me a a couple months ago.

    Tenant shut the power off (!!) to his unit, and left to visit family in another state. Tenant had renters insurance, but renters insurance did not cover it! My insurance did not cover this type of incident either, many/most won’t. Luckily it was discovered fairly early, yet floors& walls were damaged, I had a $300 plus plumbing bill to repair the pipes and there is damage to the floors and walls, which will cost over $1000 in repairs. Unfortunately I didn’t have anything in the lease to address this but I will from now on.

    The tenant knows that he will be responsible for the repair cost, which will be billed to him soon. Since there wasn’t anything specified in the lease, and he’s been an otherwise great tenant I’m probably just going to split the cost with him.

    User Stats

    1,844
    Posts
    2,302
    Votes
    Wesley W.
    • Rental Property Investor
    • The Vampire State
    2,302
    Votes |
    1,844
    Posts
    Wesley W.
    • Rental Property Investor
    • The Vampire State
    Replied

    This won't help you now, but here's a clause in my lease that addresses this.  Perhaps modify your lease moving forward?

    5. UTILITIES: Water and sewer service and curbside trash removal are provided to you. You must obtain and pay for all other utilities. We are not liable for interruption or malfunction in service. You may not occupy your apartment without electric service except during brief interruptions beyond your control. Electric and natural gas service may not be discontinued while you are in possession of your unit. A minimum temperature of 55 oF must be maintained inside your rental unit at all times; damage to the property resulting from you not doing so is your sole responsibility.

    User Stats

    5,752
    Posts
    3,857
    Votes
    Michael Noto
    Agent
    • Real Estate Agent
    • Southington, CT
    3,857
    Votes |
    5,752
    Posts
    Michael Noto
    Agent
    • Real Estate Agent
    • Southington, CT
    Replied

    @Ian K. I would keep the deposit. This is justifiable and if they were otherwise good people they honestly would probably understand why you are keeping it. You did your job in getting the problem fixed in a timely manner the way I see it.

    • Michael Noto

    User Stats

    473
    Posts
    230
    Votes
    Taylor Chiu
    • Real Estate Agent
    • Salt Lake City, UT
    230
    Votes |
    473
    Posts
    Taylor Chiu
    • Real Estate Agent
    • Salt Lake City, UT
    Replied

    @Austin Hoover

    Depends on the policy, I hada property with burst pipes and insurance wouldn’t cover it since the heat was turned off

    User Stats

    6
    Posts
    2
    Votes
    Replied

    Always Get a dwelling Fire 3 policy. My company covers it as long as you have someone listed as a renter and the home is not vacant.  There are 3 types. DF1  is a named perils ACV.  this policy can insure vacant homes the biggest thing is pipes bursting not covered or theft of items not covered. DF2 with our company it’s RC with names perils. You always want to have special perils on policies. Because if it’s not named no coverage.  I’ll keep it short and not go into details on other details like  exclusions. 

    User Stats

    4,406
    Posts
    2,884
    Votes
    Bill S.
    Pro Member
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Denver, CO
    2,884
    Votes |
    4,406
    Posts
    Bill S.
    Pro Member
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Denver, CO
    ModeratorReplied

    @Ian K. at least keep the $1,500 and send them the security deposit accounting stating the reason the funds were with held. Colorado law requires the security deposit accounting be sent to the tenant within 30 days (up to 60 days if stated as such in the lease). If you fail to send the security deposit accounting you must return the entire deposit regardless and can be liable for treble damages (3x the SD). You would then have to sue the tenant for the money owed. 

  • Bill S.