How do I respond to a tenant disputing the itemized damages?

Question

I had a property manager who found these tenants, signed the lease, and did a walk through inspection.  I have copies of all.  The tenants moved out... 2 days later, I went to inspect my property myself, and was shocked by the neglect to the exterior.  I took a ton of pictures, and texted the property manager who said she'd be out days later.

We worked, cleaned, but did not remove any of the abandoned junk.  The property manager showed up days later to inspect, and was angry that I had gone before her to see my own property.  Very long story short (she justified each point of damage caused by the tenants and didn't think she was accountable for any of the neglect), she asked for a release and ultimately I agreed.

I itemized 4 repairs & costs when I returned a portion of the security deposit to the tenants.  They had ruined BRAND NEW carpeting.  They were the first people on it.  9 months.  Ruined.  I took the cost of the carpet and the labor that I had paid, deducted 20%, and returned the rest.

I charged $75 for exterior work.  We did that ourselves.  removed their junk after 30 days, cut back weeds that were higher than code allows, the gutters (single story home) had trees growing out of them, the property had never been raked...  in the spring, we'll need to seed where they tore up the back yard driving through it after rain, and having built structures that killed the grass.  Approximately 35 hours of labor to clean up everything in total. Building materials scattered in the gardens in the front...

$2 to replace a knob from a dimmer switch that came up missing (this, they didn't dispute)

$20 to replace a door jam that had been damaged,  All 3 hinges were on wood that was cracked from a jam.  All we can figure is, one heckuva an argument  :(  Charged estimated materials only on this one.  Job finally completed, and $20 in supplies was about dead on.  --> was NOT noted on move-in inspection, but they say they didn't do it.

Question:  Their dispute letter basically was "too much to charge" on carpet, "exterior was fine" on the exterior, and "we know nothing" on door jamb.  Those generic statements, and they want the rest of the $ which amounts to $150 vicinity.

How do you reply to a dispute letter?  I have a ton of photos.  I have receipts for the labor and the carpet... They've asked for nothing but the $.  All points of the law have been followed (Indiana) except there is nothing that dictates procedure for what must happen now.  It would appear that the ex property manager is helping them write these things, as they did cut and paste, and forgot to change pronouns  LOL  It all seems very clear to me.  I feel like I was even a bit light on the charges!  I only own one property, and this is the first time a tenant has denied the damage.  Do I send the receipts voluntarily?  The pictures?  Or just compose a letter somehow?  The contractor doing me the favor said, if they're going to dispute, then revise my bill and pay me for my time.  Can I add charges if this isn't "closed"?  Advice would be greatly appreciated...

Jaysen Medhurst · Answer

@Kellie Frantz, $150? Cut your losses and move on. Not worth your time to drag it out.

Stanley Bronstein · Answer

@Mike Cumbie raises good points about the tenant potentially being able to charge for some of the things you billed him for. That's all the more reason why I say pay the $150, GET A WRITTEN RELEASE (even if it's just a text message from them saying they release you for the $150), and then move on down the road. It's not worth the brain damage ...

Jonathan R McLaughlin · Answer

why do you need to do anything? You have great documentation it seems like so if they wish to take you to court you can reply then. Make them work.

I read this that you already have the money and they wan't more back, correct?

Ignore them, or at the most reply that you have received their letter, all charges have been documented and are appropriate. Maybe say copies of documentation available upon written request. If you have an attorney you can say that all further correspondance should go there. That should end it.

I suppose you could send copies of the pictures etc if you were so inclined, but don't run scared.

Your biggest problem seems to be your property manager, not these guys

In MA you can't charge for your own labor (not sure of Indiana)

Mike Cumbie · Answer

While normally I would stand and fight there are a couple things to consider and @Stanley Bronstein brings the suggestion I would take.

1- Your labor is not chargeable, always hire work out (at least in my area)

2- More importantly, you think your Ex-Property manager is helping them fight it. Pretend you are the judge, you have an owner on one side (who didn't run the property). The tenant AND the property manager who ran the place on the other. Both claiming that the property condition has nothing to do with the tenant. In hand is a lease and point after point of why it's your issue.

Good luck on whatever you decide to do though, I know the drive to fight it.

EDIT: Some places if you are found at fault you pay 3 times damages pus court costs. Check your local area

Stanley Bronstein · Answer

@Kellie Frantz I would cut them a $150 check and make them sign a simple release letter in order to get the check.

Kellie Frantz · Answer

@Steven Kunkel I appreciate what you are saying.  It has to be replaced, the flooring.  The home is currently vacant.  I haven't done it yet, as we are working on other repairs and upgrades while I sorted out the drama with the previous rental manager, and right down to the wire, getting their deposit itemized and portion returned before my deadline was up.  To reference what @John Underwood referred to, I was trying to be completely consistent and transparent.  There is no comparison between the "old" and the "new"... I suspect that whatever I put in will be more.

This is all fairly new.  In terms of timing, and to me as the landlord.  I was told to depreciate it 10 years.  I thought 5 was pretty decent of me.  :)

Shall I provide pictures with my response to substantiate the other damages?  I can't imagine how a tenant can be so coy when what I itemized seems black and white?  On two of them, I didn't even charge labor...  parts only.

John Underwood · Answer

@Kellie Frantz I would attach a copy of the carpet and installation receipts as substantiation.

Do you even have receipts of the cost of the original carpet in case they want to argue what you put in was nicer than what they damaged?

Hard to argue with documentation.

Christopher Winkler · Answer

I'd start with getting rid of that manager, and switching to owner finance and selling the rentals to the tenants and then you can just collect checks, until they stop paying...

Dan Perrott · Answer

Note that we manage our properties ourselves so having a property manager defending a tenant is disturbing at best.  I would be moving onto another property manager.

I thought that I would share how we handle the situation as self managing the properties.

I do a few items to prevent this situation:

• I take photos prior to move-in of entire property.  
• I provide a walkthru form to the tenants upon move-in that they must complete within 1 week.  They need to itemize anything that they identify that needs to be fixed or to report existing damage.   We walkthru the form together once completed and both sign the form.  We have a documented agreement of condition at the start of the lease.   I also take photos with the new tenant at the time of walkthru of anything in question. - make sure you get them in the picture to avoid issues.
• I provide at lease signing a form that lists out the costs (move out charges) associated with damages or cleaning fees that they will incur if the property is not provided back to us in the same condition (less normal wear and tear).  The new tenants sign this form as part of the lease.  They have a full understanding of what they will be charged.  I also give them a clear definition of wear and tear.  Items not on the list of charges are charged at cost - like an estimate from from a 3rd party contractor to make the repair.
• On move out, we pull out the walkthru form from the move-in week and use it as the base to determine the charges.  We do this together upon move-out.
• We send out the itemized listing of charges within the 45 day statute in Indiana.  A refund is provided if required.
• In rare cases if the damages exceed the security deposit, we turn over to the lawyer for small claims court filing to recover damages.  We have never had to go this far as the tenants have paid the excess to avoid court.

We use a fully documented process to avoid conflicts upfront.  We have learned that the tenant actually likes this process as it takes all questions out of the process.

Additionally, tenants have identified issues that we missed during our turnover preparation that we can address immediately.  We fix items if necessary and document them on the walkthru form as resolved upon move-in.

Adrien C. · Answer

I'm in indiana and the tenants have no rights if you sent them an itemized statement of the charges within 45 days. When I send those letters, I include pictures of the damage. Get quotes from legit (and known to be pricy) contractors and send those too. You aren't required to use them for the work but at least provide the quote. Heck, have home depot quote the carpet replacement and send that to them. I'd let them know that you did a lot of work yourself and didn't hire it our which would've been a lot more. If they want to cry, let them know you can charge a normal hourly wage for your labor and you're happy to add that to their charge and can take them to small claims court for the excess damages above the sec dep. Tell them that you'd rather just leave it where it is and move on. It keeps a judgement off their credit and saves everyone a bunch of time.

How do I respond to a tenant disputing the itemized damages?

Most Popular Reply