All Forum Posts by: Kellie Frantz

Thank you all for the input, especially those suggesting to end the headache.  For clarification, the ex property manager was helping them by fixing things herself so they wouldn't be charged, and saying that damages were or could be less than they were.  I gather she liked them on a personal level, and because they paid on time, she said they were good tenants.  I had to remind her that obviously tenants can pay on time and still cause some damage.  She incorrectly told them how much I paid for the carpet, and they are all hanging on to that, is one example.  They damaged some of the walls, and she patched them and repainted for them, is another, so they wouldn't be charged.  That stuff is no skin off of my nose, so however it got fixed was fine.

We ran into the problems when we were on the exterior, and she dropped her head at one point and said that she had forgotten to check if the gutters were being maintained.  Again that they had let the weeds grow so tall.  Etc.

The move-in walk through is incredibly detailed, and the property manager and tenants initialed every page.  The door jam being broken is cut and dry.  The light knob, cut and dry. There are spaces for each of those items of damage, and nothing was noted.  I have the pictures of the damage when they moved out.   The lease and walk through said that if the property wasn't maintained, they would be charged.  We just got to the end, and they didn't want to be charged, and the property manager feels bad because they're hurting for money.  

The state laws here are such that I am allowed to charge for my own labor as long as it is in line.  I did speak with a property manager in the area, and she gave me a range of what that should look like, in comparison to what a company would charge.  She said anywhere between $50 and $100 is what would be customary.  That if I could prove the need/damage, it saves them money.  

The only time I'm penalized in this process is if I don't get the security deposit itemized and any balance to the tenants within 45 days.  The ex property manager told me she was willing to waive that for me.  When I researched it, the Indiana code stated that there was never cause to violate, and that if I didn't follow the law, I would forever lose my ability to even secure the funds for agreed upon repairs.  That it becomes an automatic return of 100% of the deposit, and I forever relinquish my ability to even sue.  It's game, point, match over.  When I told her that what she was proposing put me at risk for ANY recovery - even one nickel - she finally went away.  

@Jonathan R McLaughlin Thank you so much!  At this point for me, it is much more "the point" versus anything else.  They were given what I truly believe to be more than fair. Not out of a place of vindictiveness or malice, but true damages to my property.  And yes, you are correct in that I do have the funds in their entirety.  They have simply chosen to not cash the check of what remains.  And yes - they say they want more back.  

My documentation is spot on.  Pictures, receipts, square footage.  (And yes, the property manager was just a disaster.)

My knee jerk reaction, for some reason, was to want to send a letter without the receipts and pictures and all that.  To hold some cards to my chest in case they really decide to go to court over this amount.  But I'm not opposed to anything, and would like to do what is RIGHT versus play a game with them.  I realize it was their money... but they did some damage, intentionally or not.

There is no law here that dictates a process outside of small claims by which we both have to follow.  I've never been sued, but would know what to do if I was.  This is the first time I've received a letter of dispute.  

@Steven Kunkel I appreciate what you are saying.  It has to be replaced, the flooring.  The home is currently vacant.  I haven't done it yet, as we are working on other repairs and upgrades while I sorted out the drama with the previous rental manager, and right down to the wire, getting their deposit itemized and portion returned before my deadline was up.  To reference what @John Underwood referred to, I was trying to be completely consistent and transparent.  There is no comparison between the "old" and the "new"... I suspect that whatever I put in will be more.

This is all fairly new.  In terms of timing, and to me as the landlord.  I was told to depreciate it 10 years.  I thought 5 was pretty decent of me.  :)  

Shall I provide pictures with my response to substantiate the other damages?  I can't imagine how a tenant can be so coy when what I itemized seems black and white?  On two of them, I didn't even charge labor...  parts only.

Thank you for your reply!  I haven't replaced the carpet yet - I'm thinking of not putting in carpet, rather maybe a vinyl tile that can't be destroyed.  However, YES, I do have the receipts of the original carpet that they damaged.  It was put in not a week or two before they moved in.  They actually told the property manager they wouldn't move in without new carpet.  I had it put in, they destroyed it.  The cost I assigned was of the actual carpet that they ruined, not replacement.

To understand, then, do I reply with a letter that includes the substantiation included?  Either the receipts, or the photographs?  

I had a property manager who found these tenants, signed the lease, and did a walk through inspection.  I have copies of all.  The tenants moved out... 2 days later, I went to inspect my property myself, and was shocked by the neglect to the exterior.  I took a ton of pictures, and texted the property manager who said she'd be out days later.

We worked, cleaned, but did not remove any of the abandoned junk.  The property manager showed up days later to inspect, and was angry that I had gone before her to see my own property.  Very long story short (she justified each point of damage caused by the tenants and didn't think she was accountable for any of the neglect), she asked for a release and ultimately I agreed.

I itemized 4 repairs & costs when I returned a portion of the security deposit to the tenants.  They had ruined BRAND NEW carpeting.  They were the first people on it.  9 months.  Ruined.  I took the cost of the carpet and the labor that I had paid, deducted 20%, and returned the rest.

I charged $75 for exterior work.  We did that ourselves.  removed their junk after 30 days, cut back weeds that were higher than code allows, the gutters (single story home) had trees growing out of them, the property had never been raked...  in the spring, we'll need to seed where they tore up the back yard driving through it after rain, and having built structures that killed the grass.  Approximately 35 hours of labor to clean up everything in total. Building materials scattered in the gardens in the front...

$2 to replace a knob from a dimmer switch that came up missing (this, they didn't dispute)

$20 to replace a door jam that had been damaged,  All 3 hinges were on wood that was cracked from a jam.  All we can figure is, one heckuva an argument  :(  Charged estimated materials only on this one.  Job finally completed, and $20 in supplies was about dead on.  --> was NOT noted on move-in inspection, but they say they didn't do it.

Question:  Their dispute letter basically was "too much to charge" on carpet, "exterior was fine" on the exterior, and "we know nothing" on door jamb.  Those generic statements, and they want the rest of the $ which amounts to $150 vicinity.

How do you reply to a dispute letter?  I have a ton of photos.  I have receipts for the labor and the carpet... They've asked for nothing but the $.  All points of the law have been followed (Indiana) except there is nothing that dictates procedure for what must happen now.  It would appear that the ex property manager is helping them write these things, as they did cut and paste, and forgot to change pronouns  LOL  It all seems very clear to me.  I feel like I was even a bit light on the charges!  I only own one property, and this is the first time a tenant has denied the damage.  Do I send the receipts voluntarily?  The pictures?  Or just compose a letter somehow?  The contractor doing me the favor said, if they're going to dispute, then revise my bill and pay me for my time.  Can I add charges if this isn't "closed"?  Advice would be greatly appreciated...

Thomas, tomorrow you really need to call the Department of Health and have them come out and do an inspection.  They will take care of the landlord.  It is an incredible health and safety issue.  They will also be able to tell you whether/how it violates any laws or ordinances.

Is a demand letter something that I can do myself?  

Nathan, you are not the fist person who has said she hasn't returned it because she no longer has it.  I have not spoken with the tenants, because their information was kept private from me.  YES, I will absolutely be filing a complaint.  Hopefully the next person will benefit from me having done so.  

Upon termination of the contract, she turned over the keys.  She is refusing the documentation and the deposit.  Ignored my request for the tenants forwarding address so I could send the letter.  Is there a place in any sort of law or realtor forum or code, or anywhere, that details her obligation to turn these things over to me?

Yes, I am keeping everything in order to take her to small claims court.  She is almost acting like the tenants agent, not mine.  That is a huge reason I agreed to let her go.  

Does she have any rights in this process when she asked to be released from the contract and I did so?  I told her she doesn't have selective contractual duties.  She's 100% out.  That hasn't deterred her.  I feel like I've "demanded" the funds and paperwork but have been ignored.  Is it more official, I guess, to send it via certified mail?  I have 16 days exactly to get this letter and funds to the tenant.

I'm in Indiana.  I one one property that I've rented out myself for the past 16 years.  This past year, for the first time, I signed a property manager.

I got a text a couple of months ago that due to leaks in the roof, and the ants they can't get figured out, the tenants want out.  Horrified, I agreed.  This was the first I'd heard of these things - the response was that she hadn't wanted to worry me.

The day after the tenants moved out early (3 months early), I drove the 1 1/2 hours to where the property was.  The property had never been raked.  Leaves and sticks up against each side of the house.  The gutters had little trees growing out of them.  Roof full of leaves and sticks.  I spent all day as well as each of my kids, cleaning the neglect.  I took a ton of photos and texted my property manager that I'd like to have a meeting about the neglect of the home.  In the leaf piles I found mounds of ants.  Watched them crawling into the house.  My next trip in, 2 days later, I sprayed.  Never saw them again.  We had 3 days of torrential rains in the past month.  I drove in again to view the leaks that caused them to move out.  After 18 hours of non-stop rain, I finally saw a drip every 30 seconds within the laundry room.

I had quite the conversation with the property manager.  Told her I agreed to the early release of the tenants, only because I assumed that the property had been maintained and that it was a legitimate request.   The property manager got mad, and then ignored my texts for the next week.  She then materialized and requested a mutual release.  I agreed shortly thereafter.

In the meantime, on the interior, the tenants damaged the carpeting that had been BRAND NEW when they moved in.  The property manager said, "what do you expect when you put in Berber"  

We have a strict law here dictating 45 days to return the deposit.  I've asked the manager to send me the deposit 3 times so I can handle this.  She told me no, she would do it and fulfill her obligation.  I pointed out that she was no longer part of the contract and had no obligations as such, that she needed to send it to me.  She is now refusing.  Said she won't give anybody the money until she determines that it is fair.  Fair being that I give her receipts, and that there was no damage, only the carpet.  And this also isn't even true.  She owns her own company, is the only broker there, having only an assistant.

There are 2 weeks left before the 45 days are up, and I'm desperate for guidance:  do I need to write something up and send the remainder of the funds myself?