Is this going to be a problem?

Question

Hello all,

It's a long post, but I will appreciate your responses.

So I have this 2-plex that I bought last month. It has one boiler in the basement that heats 1st floor and the 2nd floor. I had couple of contractors come in and bid on putting in a new heating system to separate the heat. There are two meters for gas. Electric is already separate.

So couple of contractors bid on a new boiler system (ranging from 5k-8k) and couple of contractors suggested that I put in a new furnace in the basement (basement will just be used for storage only) to heat the 1st floor and cap the radiators on the 1st floor. (bid ranging from 3.5k to 4k). I liked the idea of putting in a new furnace and capping the radiators on the 1st floor and leave the boiler for the 2nd floor. My main motivation was the cost factor.

So, one of the contractors just called me (he had bid on putting in a new boiler for 8k) to follow up and I just told him no and I have decided to work with another contractor who suggested to put in a furnace. And then he started going off on how it's a bad idea to make the 2-plex a 2 heating system; 1st floor with furnace and 2nd floor with boiler. And also how it's a bad idea because the furnace heat isn't as good as a boiler heat because of the lack on insulation in the walls and also I will need to cut holes in the floor, which makes the floor weak.

1) Does he have a point here or am I getting scared for nothing?
2) Does the cost of $3.8k for putting a new furnace and separating the meters seems reasonable?

I truly appreciate any/all responses.

Jon Holdman · Answer

Another trick you can use is to tell the contractor you liked about the lower bid. Sometimes they won't budge, sometimes they will come down. Like you, I've gone with a higher bid from a contractor I liked better. $3700 seems in the right ball park, though. Most new codes require "combustion air". I've had to add that on two different houses. Its just a duct or two to the outside so that any gas appliances can draw air. However, it does mean you have cold air coming in the the area, which might be something to consider in locating the furnace. This is definitely the sort of job you want to have permitted and inspected.

Bill Patterson · Answer

The forced air furnace has the advantage of being able to add AC. For a rental, I'd do the furnace. Don't worry about cutting holes for the registers. That contractor just wanted the job and was doing his best to sell you! $3,800 sounds like a good price for furnace, duct, and gas pipe to separate. Costs more where I am! Bill

Steve Babiak · Answer

The things to watch with forced air, from my own experience with this would include: Are there good returns (and no returns from bathroom)? If doing AC, returns from upper levels should be included (to bring back the hot air that rises). Can ductwork be fed into all rooms so as to avoid unheated spaces? Is the clearance in the basement sufficient for trunks that feed the ductwork? Sizing of the blower is important if AC will be done (cold air being heavier actually requires more powerful blower). Now, when splitting systems up, be sure that there isn't any cross-ups that you might see. Things like electricity will be needed for circulators and blowers, so unit 1's electric should feed unit 1's heat - you get the idea. Hot water separation also could be an issue; lots of these older places had winter-summer hookups for hot water heating. In winter, the main boiler would be used, while in summer a smaller hot water heater would be used. So you have to make certain that the hot water pipes go to the proper water heaters. One other thing that you might encounter is insufficient air for proper combustion when many gas burning appliances are located together; this can lead to backdrafting where air for combustion is pulled through the chimney (running the risk of exhaust gases getting back into the house's fresh air). You should have a check performed for this condition after the separation is completed; you might have to add an air make-up kit to bring fresh air directly to the combustion furnace area.

Will Barnard · Answer

I agree with both posts above me. If you are ever unfamiliar with specific costs associated with a specific repair, get 3 bids from licensed contractors and compare. Referrals from others are usefull as well.

Marc Freislinger · Answer

Splitting the utilities is always a good idea. I feel like the contractor is trying to scare you. That bid sounds very reasonable, but just to be sure, call some other contractors and price the same work. Sometimes contractors that bid too low won't ever finish the job.

Sharad M. · Answer

Yes, you are correct. I meant the vent openings. Interestingly, the contractor who scared me about putting a furnace has offered to buy the radiators from me, but I am not sure what's a good price for them. Any ideas? I was gonna ask my guy who is putting in the furnace.

Steve Babiak · Answer

I think you mean to say that the vent openings will go where the radiators currently sit - that is exactly the location to use, since having the heat come from that location was already known to work for the rooms. Getting ductwork everywhere may or may not be a problem though - depends alot on the physical structure of things. Things like pipes and electric wiring can manage to be in the way at times, not to mention difficult structure (example: I have one where the kitchen and one upper level bedroom are in an addition on slab, so getting ductwork to go into those two rooms required going through original brick and masonry exterior walls that are now on the inside). BTW - since you are getting rid of older radiators here, the scrap metal value might be worth looking into if they are the old heavy cast iron units. The HVAC contractors are often happy to haul them for the scrap value - might be something you can make a few bucks from (or you might want to let that go to the contractors for good will).

Sharad M. · Answer

Yes, there's place for good returns by kitchen. Yes, the ductwork will go where the radiators are currently. Yes Thanks for the great point. I will be sure to discuss this with the contractor over the weekend. The contractor originally bid the work at $4,000, he came down to $3,800 after I told him about the other bid.

Michael S. · Answer

if only a couple of hundred difference more use reputable contractor...i'm still trying to find guys that put in an AC unit in for me

Will Barnard · Answer

No you are talking! I don't pass up on offers of beer, kind of like as diamonds are to the ladys. :lol: