Taking an out of state tenants to court?
Investor · Morgantown, WV · Member since 2016 · 43 posts · 17 votes
My rentals are in a college town. I deal almost exclusively with students and rent by semester, not month to month.
I have evicted three tenants, all from out of state (PA and NJ), and I want to sue them for the money they owe. I'm knocking off a few grand from each tenants debt to keep it below $5,000. Over $5,000 and it's handled in the Federal Court (that's my understanding) and I don't want to get that deep in.
I think the crux is the serving of the notice.
I think I can sue them in my local magistrate, but I have to serve them somehow. I don't know where they currently live, nor do I have SSNs etc.
At this point, even though I may never get paid, it's a matter of principle. I am more than willing to get a judgement and lien so for the next 7-10 years these kids cannot get any sort of credit. And I hope it shows up when they apply for jobs so they can't get hired.
That sucks no two ways about it.
The good news is people can absolutely be found but it depends on how much money and time you want to be put into it. Believe me I have done that job before. Now-a-days social media is your tech. Search them on Facebook etc. Look for their family, friends etc. BUT the big thing is that you need good information on them to start. Did they fill out applications, were they thorough, did you have them list relatives and or references, did you ever confirm the references? Where did they work, they may know? Send them a USPS register, receipt mailing that requires a signature. If they made a change of address it will get to them. You can pay for a service on line to find out details about people. Be very wary of this and vet the company if you decide to use on. A lot of them just take your money and give you googalable info, but the better ones will give you viable, usable data. And then of course you can hire a private investigator to do a more thorough job of it too.
Good luck to you.
Glenn
That sucks no two ways about it.
The good news is people can absolutely be found but it depends on how much money and time you want to be put into it. Believe me I have done that job before. Now-a-days social media is your tech. Search them on Facebook etc. Look for their family, friends etc. BUT the big thing is that you need good information on them to start. Did they fill out applications, were they thorough, did you have them list relatives and or references, did you ever confirm the references? Where did they work, they may know? Send them a USPS register, receipt mailing that requires a signature. If they made a change of address it will get to them. You can pay for a service on line to find out details about people. Be very wary of this and vet the company if you decide to use on. A lot of them just take your money and give you googalable info, but the better ones will give you viable, usable data. And then of course you can hire a private investigator to do a more thorough job of it too.
Good luck to you.
Glenn
haha bitter landlord syndrome! I know it well! We use a company called Skiptrace to find people and their socials, which costs a few bucks, but they are typically pretty good. Are these kids still in school, or they graduated? Have you looked back at cancelled checks to see if they had home addresses on them, or maybe they put a home address in their leases? Good lesson learned, though, at least! ALL of my clients' leases require social security numbers. It's so hard to get a judgment in most states without it, so add that onto your form for the future.
There are rules for suing in "small claims" or "special civil part" depending on the state, and whether you have jurisdiction, methods of service, etc. Each state has a statutory limit (that's the $5,000 you mentioned, some states go up to $15,000) and if you go over it then you are in a different division, but the same court (Superior Court in NJ and PA). Filing fees are a little bit higher, but it isn't federal court, and the process is pretty much the same.
Do you own the property in an LLC or personally? If its an LLC, you need a lawyer to file and appear for you anyway, so may be easier to just try and serve them in PA to NJ and sue there.
Also, what state is the property in? I can probably give you some better info if you are willing to share.
I'm sorry for your situation. Seems to me if you hang around the barber shop long enough you are bound to get a haircut. Did the applicants fill out complete applications (assuming not because no SSN's)? If you rent solely to College students did you make their parents cosign the lease/submit their own credentials (assuming not because then you would probably be after them)? I think this lesson would be better off teaching you the flaws in your business plan and how you might be able to rectify them. While I understand getting shorted any amount of money is extremely frustrating I'm not sure holding a resentment like yours is healthy for you either. Get a judgement if you feel strongly about it and hopefully they will realize that the small amount of money now will help them immensely down the road. Also I am not an Attorney but making up non-factual numbers so you don't have to hop through certain hoops sounds shady to say the least.
In the meantime I would look at your own strategies and how to prevent future issues, i.e. how did you let college kids get $24K dollars in the hole with you? How could you have protected your investment better? How could you be using your time better?
Many people are quick to point out fault, but it would be great for you to at the same time give some solutions. Do you have any suggestions for your questions?
Constructive criticism is much better than just criticizing.
My2Cents
Glenn
My rentals are in a college town. I deal almost exclusively with students and rent by semester, not month to month.
I have evicted three tenants, all from out of state (PA and NJ), and I want to sue them for the money they owe. I'm knocking off a few grand from each tenants debt to keep it below $5,000. Over $5,000 and it's handled in the Federal Court (that's my understanding) and I don't want to get that deep in.
I think the crux is the serving of the notice.
I think I can sue them in my local magistrate, but I have to serve them somehow. I don't know where they currently live, nor do I have SSNs etc.
At this point, even though I may never get paid, it's a matter of principle. I am more than willing to get a judgement and lien so for the next 7-10 years these kids cannot get any sort of credit. And I hope it shows up when they apply for jobs so they can't get hired.
Generally speaking if it's over $5,000 it's processed in General District Court, if it's less then it's processed under Small Claims court. Each state has their own limits on which one you use.
Small claims normally blocks both parties from using an attorney, while the other allows it, or requires it if your a business, however most LL cases are processed in General District Court anyways, so I would go that route frankly.
I would file the judgment and see if the courts can hunt them down, or pay a PI to serve them... You could hire a skip tracer like American Tracers (The owner is on BP, real good guy), or pay a someone to find and serve the notice, I think American Tracers provides both these services.
In the end, you may just want to file the judgement and ping their credit for a few hundo, then save the thousands you would spend getting revenge, and use it for a relaxing vacation.
*Not legal advice*
Didn't mean to criticize, and sorry if any of that came off giving the wrong impression, in reading my post again it did sound a bit snarky. Landlords should be pulling credit on every applicant and that involves the applicant providing a social security number on their application along with them giving your permission to pull the credit. College towns can be great investments as there is always a steady stream of tenants but the reality is most applicants will have little to no actual income to cover the expense of rent and or utilities. College kids are at a point in their life where they don't worry about their credit score yet so even a judgement could prove fruitless. With any applicant that is under qualified a cosigner is a great option. Especially college students whose parents have interest in them being where they are and will most likely do anything to help them out. Parents have direct interest in protecting their credit and would much rather pay any debts than risk a judgement (and have money to do so). As far as letting the debt get to the point it did, it might make sense to hire a PM to over see the property and payments.
You nailed it. It's a LLC. Non-profit one at that. I have a buddy that is also somewhat invested in this property who is an attorney. I'm going to rope him in to do the filing, but I need to do the leg work prior. I do have parent's addresses. These kids have failed out of school and have probably been kicked out of the house.
I may try to serve them in PA or NJ...but it would be much easier to serve them in WV - where I live and where the property is located.
There are a few tweaks I can make to the business plan - I have to be careful b/c the wrong change will cause me to loose non-profit status.
Thanks for the recommendation. I'll check out American Tracers.
All good advise so far. My son just graduated from WVU in Morgantown and I had to sign as a parent for my son so get that detailed info including SS#'s; copy of Drivers License etc. for the next one. Also 1st time they are late; start the eviction process immediately and call/contact the parents etc. Skip trace to find them and have your lawyer sent letter to both parents and kids. Us landlords will go through this sooner or later. Best of Luck !