Architect · Sonoma, CA · Member since 2013 · 53 posts · 30 votes
Closed Tuesday but the previous renters moved back in Wednesday. The place they had lined up to move into ended up being sold so the landlord returned their deposit and 1st months rent. They had no place to go but still had keys to the place they just moved out of so they moved back into the house I now own. I had plans to start the rehab next week.
Would you:
A. Begin the eviction process
B. Get them on a month to month lease and start cashflowing (at 10% less rent than you projected) on day one even without rehabbing.
C. Some other option
I think this could work out pretty okay or go really, really wrong.
Real Estate Agent · Buena Park, CA · Member since 2016 · 743 posts · 424 votes
10y
Tell them their problems are not yours,they are trespassing! They have no legal right to be in your property and must depart immediately or face legal action. Tell them to move into a cheap hotel until they find a new apartment.Don't take one penny from them to give them tenants rights.Don't ever let someone deny you your property and dictate what you will do with your property.
Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2014 · 54 posts · 5 votes
10y
That is tough, I think if you want them it may be a good idea get a lease in place even if it is month to month to set the terms in place in case the fail to pay on time. If not I would start the eviction.
Professional · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 63 posts · 30 votes
10y
Yowza, pretty unique situation... concur with @Jerry Robinson that if you keep them, you need to follow the same due diligence - background check, lease etc., and on your own rental terms. Probably depends on your goals for the property and your own situation.
Real Estate Agent · Buena Park, CA · Member since 2016 · 743 posts · 424 votes
10y
Tell them their problems are not yours,they are trespassing! They have no legal right to be in your property and must depart immediately or face legal action. Tell them to move into a cheap hotel until they find a new apartment.Don't take one penny from them to give them tenants rights.Don't ever let someone deny you your property and dictate what you will do with your property.
Architect · Sonoma, CA · Member since 2013 · 53 posts · 30 votes
10y
@Jerry Robinson - Yeah, that is my plan. They have rented there for two years already. I am sending them my rental application and if they are someone I would rent to normally and everything checks out, I am going to get them on a month to month ASAP. They said they are going on vacation back home to visit family the month of July while the kids are out of school. I might do a quick turn over and spruce the place up a bit while they are away. I need to get the place bank appraisal/financing ready so I can pull my cash back out. I guess this would be the BRRRR strategy but in the wrong order. Buy - Rent - Rehab - Refinance - Repeat
Tell them they are trespassing and to move their stuff to storage and get themselves to a motel. If they tell you to rub salt or ask for help you have two options.
1) File an eviction notice
2) File an eviction notice and tell them if they are out before it is completed you will withdraw it.
Architect · Sonoma, CA · Member since 2013 · 53 posts · 30 votes
10y
As expected, there seems to be two camps here. While I do agree that the trespassing/eviction is the sure fire solution, it also is why some landlords can get a bad reputation. I would rather try to work something out first then come into the neighborhood with an iron boot to kick them to the curb.
Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y
I am going to split the middle here. I would inform them that they really had no right to move back in and really let them know that just because you have keys doesn't mean you can do that. It is trespass. I would then put yourself in the drivers seat and lay out your terms for them staying with the other option being eviction. Nice but firm. Right now I assume they are in a house without deposit or payment. Collect something non-refundable now and go from there.
Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2015 · 492 posts · 267 votes
10y
Ryan H they are trespassing and have no paper to be there. Call the cops and have them removed for trespassing, there is no need to evict cause they have no lease from you.
Architect · Sonoma, CA · Member since 2013 · 53 posts · 30 votes
10y
I am a little surprised how many people are totally fine with having a grandmother and three grand kids removed by the cops and slapped with a criminal charge.
De Pere, WI · Member since 2016 · 83 posts · 39 votes
10y
What is scary is that you made it sound as if they just moved right back in without finding out who actually owns the place. Since they were moving out at the same time you were purchasing the property my assumptions would be they were clearly made aware that the property was for sale. They had no right to move back in. I would definitely be concerned and want to call the police for trespassing. I definitely see why trying to make a deal with them would be helpful/convenient for everyone, but they went around it the complete wrong way... I think the biggest question and concern is that if they have the gall to do something like this, what else may they try to pull? If you do go ahead and rent to them I'd make sure every t is crossed and every i is dotted. I would also hold off on any renovations unless absolutely necessary to get your money out. Again, I would be concerned over what they may do in the future if they think they can do this now... they are acting like THEY are the ones who own the property. So I would definitely just keep that in mind.
Guy with Great Hair · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y
Anyone who would think renting to these people is a good idea, is wrong.
They didn't take any responsibility for themselves, hell they didn't even get a hotel they instantly made their problems your problems with complete disregard for the law, your property, and social responsibility.
This level of irresponsibility is appalling. I would call 911 for trespassing immediately. If you 'work' something out for them, what's going to happen when the lease is up next time? You going to boot them? I know you won't because you have that opportunity now. They are never ever leaving after this.
I am a little surprised how many people are totally fine with having a grandmother and three grand kids removed by the cops and slapped with a criminal charge.
Totally fine with calling the cops. It's only criminal if she stays and defies the officer, who will no doubt give her a small amount of time to clear her possessions.
Now the officer may try and wriggle out and say that this is civil, that's when you start with a lawyer. And as someone else says, in another thread, if you get an eviction on your record, finding a new place will be that much harder.
San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
10y
@Ryan H Think about their reason for moving back in. They packed up all their belongings and drove to their new place and wow! Surprise with no warning, when they arrived at their leased home with their moving truck the owner said, "Oh, sorry, the place just sold this very minute and I didn't have time to even call you. Here's your money."
Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y
@Ryan H I suspected you may have had that conversation with them, whether you decide to have them stay or go I think you are on the right track by laying out the issue and working a solution rather then getting really confrontational. I highly doubt the police would remove them and I do think they would probably be considered tenants. Let us know where it goes this is one of the postings where I am curious about the end of the story.
Specialist · Kirkland, WA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 817 votes
10y
Lesson Learned about changing the locks. As soon as the ink is wet!
Anything other than immediately calling the cops and stating trespass is going to open you up to tenant rights. I've been soft once to often, and wonder why I have to keep evicting people. Costing me more money but generating wonderful stories to tell to my local REIA.
There are rules that we must all abide by. Failure to abide by those rules result in consequences. There are some people who do a wonderful job of providing awesome housing choices for people but only when they abide by the rules. Moving into a place they didn't have a lease for, and having to failed returning their keys on move out proves that these aren't rule abiding people and need to be dealt with. You came asking a question on what you should do, at least no-one has suggested starting the rehab by removing the front door and breaking the windows out while they are away at work.
Is anyone on this forum certain they have no tenant rights in CA. They have a lease with the old landlord, is there any paperwork to prove they terminated their lease and vacated the property or only the word of the previous landlord.
These people are obviously irresponsible individuals to have moved without confirmation and extremely arrogant to assume they can simply move back into a unit after vacating. I suspect they are possibly low quality individuals that will do what ever they please and a eviction will be your only recourse once they show the police their lease. Remember a lease transfers with the sale of the property in most states.
You better get a notarized statement from the previous landlord confirming they vacated the property as evidence.
"removing the front door and breaking the windows out while they are away at work".
That would have been my plan B after the police said it was a civil matter and walked away.
Architect · Sonoma, CA · Member since 2013 · 53 posts · 30 votes
10y
First of all... thanks to everyone who took time out of their day to respond to this post.
Second... as with most post... you can only provide some much of the details before it gets to be a bore. So here are a few more facts that impact the case and some of the responses.
1. The property is in Texas. A landlord friendly state, depending on who you ask.
2. I am not in Texas currently.
3. I have lots of family who are in the the city of this property and have been checking on it for me.
4. The title company did not inform me when the property was going to close/had closed. I called them and found out it closed two days later. It was locked up in probate for two months.
5. The seller confirmed the tenants had vacated prior to closing. I did not because I never received a confirmed closing date until after the fact.
6. As soon as I found out the property closed, I arranged to get keys to have the locks changed. that's is when we found the tenants back inside.
Manville, NJ · Member since 2015 · 141 posts · 87 votes
10y
I feel like @Ryan H is opening himself up to a lot of potential future problems. I would evict. Evict... I would just call the police. This does seem to be a criminal matter. Besides that, you have to remember- you give somebody one finger, next thing you know, you don't have an arm. Just my two cents...
Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 36 posts · 21 votes
10y
@Ryan H I don't think the tenants ever moved out. This story doesn't make sence.
If your plan was to flip the property then you have to evict them. Calling the police and claiming that they are trespassing is not going to work. If living there for two years does not make them tenants I don't know what would. However you can try it's free.
If your plan was to rehab and rent send them a new lease with after rehab rent after you run a background check on them. If they sign you'll be getting after rehab rent without spending a dollar. If they don't then give them a notice to vacate. Not sure what is in Texas most likely 30 days for month to month lease.
Architect · Sonoma, CA · Member since 2013 · 53 posts · 30 votes
10y
Anyone ever read "If You Give a Pig a Pancake" or "If You Give a Cat a Cupcake" or "If You Give a Mouse a Cookie" etc. ?
I have...
...about 50 times each.
While those stories go on and on about how people (fictitious animals) keep taking if you keep giving, what they don't cover is once you stop... you stop.
Basically the future problems are now.
I have a property that I was planning on rehabbing and renting out.
It currently has the previous renters of two years inside.
They want to pay and stay for another month until school ends for the kids and then get out or stay and pay the market rent.
If they don't pass the rental application process, they are out. And here comes to Po-Po.
If they do, then I am cashflowing on day one which was not originally planned based on the contract stating the property will be delivered unoccupied. I would suspect a fair few of you would not mind having a turn key property on your hands with plenty of upside value add still available in it on day one.
I do agree with the comments about how the moral aspect of the renters is questionable at best, for now, I am thinking about the best mutually beneficial arrangements for both parties.
BTW: One other detail... my cash invested will be covered in 5 years if the current renters stay and I don't raise the rent. A owner financed note comes to mind.
As expected, there seems to be two camps here. While I do agree that the trespassing/eviction is the sure fire solution, it also is why some landlords can get a bad reputation. I would rather try to work something out first then come into the neighborhood with an iron boot to kick them to the curb.
Hilarious situation! Never heard that one before. While I would always try and behave ethical and respectful towards people in general I would (fron experience) recommend to channel your altruistic needs elsewhere.
The bad news here is not that they would like to live in their old unit, (which given their situation is understandable) but the fact that they just moved back in without asking first. That does not bode well. If you do decide to "help them out" for a period of time make you do it for your own reasons. I would not worry too much about what "the neighborhood" thinks either. They will A. Not know or care, B. Understand you are getting rid of squatters or C. Don't understand, but how does that case affect you really? If anyone talks to you about it tell them the truth and ask they what they would do in your shoes?
The bigger lesson here is: Always change the locks: right away.:))