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Updated over 8 years ago, 03/14/2016

User Stats

34
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4
Votes
Crystal Dundas
  • Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
4
Votes |
34
Posts

Changing out Electric Heater, does AC needs to be replaced too?

Crystal Dundas
  • Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
Posted

Hi folks,

A few weeks back, I decided, at the advice of all of you beautiful people to convert my rental from electric to gas heating.  I just received the quote and the hvac guy is saying I have to change out my AC unit as well.  There is nothing wrong with the unit that I have.  Do I really need to do both?  If so, I may very well just leave the unit without central air.  I'm in Philadelphia so we get very few days that are so hot that AC is a must have.  and the house has ceiling fans throughout.

Let me know your thoughts.

User Stats

18
Posts
6
Votes
Jacob Felder
  • Property Manager
  • Philadelphia, PA
6
Votes |
18
Posts
Jacob Felder
  • Property Manager
  • Philadelphia, PA
Replied

Depends on the comparable rentals in your neighborhood. Having central A/C is a big bonus and could translate into more monthly rent, but it isn't necessarily a must have in my neighborhood (Southwest Philly). My advice would be to check your rental comps and see what they have. If most have central air, it would probably be in your best interest to have it.

User Stats

34
Posts
4
Votes
Crystal Dundas
  • Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
4
Votes |
34
Posts
Crystal Dundas
  • Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
Replied

oh I know that I don't need central in my neighborhood... I'm more so asking why I can't keep u unit I have with the gas heater being installed.

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Account Closed
  • Investor
  • Henderson, NC
208
Votes |
484
Posts
Account Closed
  • Investor
  • Henderson, NC
Replied

You'd have to provide way more information than you have. Why does he say it needs replacement? Does he have a reason? No, you don't have to replace your A/C when you replace your heater, unless maybe there is some reason the new heater is not compatible.

I'd also seriously question the advice you got before. Gas is generally a negative in a rental. Extra billing, extra risk of fire, gas leak, or CO poisoning, less efficient. Heat pumps cost less to run than natural gas heaters, and they don't require gas! (Plus they give you air conditioning at the same time!) The fewer utilities you have the better off you are.

User Stats

34
Posts
4
Votes
Crystal Dundas
  • Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
4
Votes |
34
Posts
Crystal Dundas
  • Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
Replied

I have had two sets of tenants in that unit and both have come out with electric heating bills upwards of $900... Gas was the best comparable option.  The heater/ac unit are about 7 years old and in perfect working condition. That's why I don't want to replace ac if I don't have to.

Account Closed
  • Investor
  • Henderson, NC
208
Votes |
484
Posts
Account Closed
  • Investor
  • Henderson, NC
Replied

The heater is not the cause of your high bill unless it is all resistance heating. If so the best option is to install a heat pump, not a gas heater.

Anybody can do the math. Electric heat pumps make heat cheaper than natural gas burning heaters in most situations. Especially if you need to install natural gas. 

You still haven't provided nearly enough (any) information about your equipment so nobody can really answer your original question.

User Stats

423
Posts
222
Votes
Kevin Manz
  • HVAC Tech
  • Fort Wayne, IN
222
Votes |
423
Posts
Kevin Manz
  • HVAC Tech
  • Fort Wayne, IN
Replied

You definitely did the right thing installing natural gas. On the AC side, you probably would be best off going w a new ac. Is it possible to save the old ac, yes, but the installer would have to have ur best interest in mind, and sometimes they don't.  I do HVAC, and it's a long complicated answer. If you want more details, feel free to pm me.

User Stats

177
Posts
80
Votes
Mark Redmann
  • Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
80
Votes |
177
Posts
Mark Redmann
  • Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
Replied

Did you ask the HVAC guy why he said to change it? 

User Stats

1,225
Posts
561
Votes
Scott Weaner
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Yardley, PA
561
Votes |
1,225
Posts
Scott Weaner
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Yardley, PA
Replied

@Account Closed is located. Most of us want gas, which is why we have gas heat! 

If electric was better, no one would have gas.

Account Closed
  • Investor
  • Henderson, NC
208
Votes |
484
Posts
Account Closed
  • Investor
  • Henderson, NC
Replied
Originally posted by @Scott Weaner:

@Account Closed, I don't think that typically electric heat with a heat pump is less expensive. Maybe in NC, but not up north where @Crystal Dundas is located. Most of us want gas, which is why we have gas heat! 

If electric was better, no one would have gas.

I'm not trying to be rude, but most people have no idea which is cheaper, and have no idea how to do the math. All electric resistance heat is expensive. An electric heat pump heater, which operates on a completely different principal, almost always creates heat for LESS MONEY than a natural gas furnace. This is a fact in most of the United States. Heat pumps also give you A/C, gas heaters do not.

If you don't believe me post your cost per kilowatt hour for electricity and cost per therm for natural gas and I'll prove it. Most people don't even know what their cost is for these things.

Also you are totally ignoring the fact that it's an extra hassle and expense to add a gas line and another utility to the property. In a rental you always want the minimum number of different utilities. All electric is ideal for the property owner.

User Stats

1,848
Posts
956
Votes
Marian Smith
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Williamson County, TX
956
Votes |
1,848
Posts
Marian Smith
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Williamson County, TX
Replied

Gas heat is cheaper than a heat pump, but some properties do not have gas available. The HVAC guy probably wants to switch your A/c unit to the newer freon but you are nit compelled to get a complete system as Far as I know. Have you tried attic insulation to lower heating costs? Because if you have an insulation problem, your bills with gas will be high too.

User Stats

685
Posts
301
Votes
Billy Smith
  • Shawnee Mission, KS
301
Votes |
685
Posts
Billy Smith
  • Shawnee Mission, KS
Replied

Care full the farther North you get HEAT pumps do not work as well .Try Goodman unit if installed by a pro work just as good as the name brands like  Trane plus  will save you lots of money . Get 3 bids I learn more with  each bid tell I know the answer  to the question I am just see what they say .Then if boils down to money .

Account Closed
  • Investor
  • Henderson, NC
208
Votes |
484
Posts
Account Closed
  • Investor
  • Henderson, NC
Replied
Originally posted by @Marian Smith:

Gas heat is cheaper than a heat pump,

This is entirely false, you cannot post any data to back that up.

I notice nobody took me up on the offer to post electric and gas rates. Probably don't even know what they are... 

Also, keep in mind, this is a landlord forum, if you want advice about A/C and heat you need an HVAC forum. This is the wrong place to ask this question.

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User Stats

423
Posts
222
Votes
Kevin Manz
  • HVAC Tech
  • Fort Wayne, IN
222
Votes |
423
Posts
Kevin Manz
  • HVAC Tech
  • Fort Wayne, IN
Replied
Originally posted by :

Also, keep in mind, this is a landlord forum, if you want advice about A/C and heat you need an HVAC forum. This is the wrong place to ask this question.

Why are you being so persistent on this. Your information is bad. Do you know how a heat pump heats when temperature hits below 40. 

User Stats

423
Posts
222
Votes
Kevin Manz
  • HVAC Tech
  • Fort Wayne, IN
222
Votes |
423
Posts
Kevin Manz
  • HVAC Tech
  • Fort Wayne, IN
Replied
Originally posted by @Kevin Manz:
Originally posted by :ryan

Also, keep in mind, this is a landlord forum, if you want advice about A/C and heat you need an HVAC forum. This is the wrong place to ask this question.

Why are you being so persistent on this. Your information is bad. Do you know how a heat pump heats when temperature hits below 40. 

User Stats

423
Posts
222
Votes
Kevin Manz
  • HVAC Tech
  • Fort Wayne, IN
222
Votes |
423
Posts
Kevin Manz
  • HVAC Tech
  • Fort Wayne, IN
Replied

I don't know why my last post posted like that, but someone living in philadelphia is going to be way better off with gas heat, because when temps hit below 40 guess how a heat pump heats, with resistance heat. Well there went all your savings. If you don't know what your talking about don't give bad information @Ryan Roberts

User Stats

1,848
Posts
956
Votes
Marian Smith
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Williamson County, TX
956
Votes |
1,848
Posts
Marian Smith
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Williamson County, TX
Replied

We are in a temperate climate and almost every new house has natural gas heat because it is cheaper to operate.  Only new houses on acreage w/o gas lines install heat pumps.  If heat pumps were cheaper to operate that would not be the case.  There may be regional differences in the prices of natural gas vs electricity Making heat pumps more cost effective where you live.   I pay around 9.5 cents per kwhour for electric and I do not have gas. I personally have a heat pump and it heats with resistance heat in winter sometimes even in south central Texas.

 Attic insulation really makes a difference too.

Account Closed
  • Investor
  • Henderson, NC
208
Votes |
484
Posts
Account Closed
  • Investor
  • Henderson, NC
Replied
Originally posted by @Kevin Manz:

I don't know why my last post posted like that, but someone living in philadelphia is going to be way better off with gas heat, because when temps hit below 40 guess how a heat pump heats, with resistance heat. Well there went all your savings. If you don't know what your talking about don't give bad information @Ryan Roberts

 This is totally false, you are the one giving bad information. Modern heat pumps work efficiently well below 20 degrees. Some down to ZERO degrees. It all depends on the model. You might be right if we were talking about 1980s equipment.

I do have a lot of experience with HVAC equipment. I'm betting more than anybody else in this thread. But again, this is not an HVAC forum.

Account Closed
  • Investor
  • Henderson, NC
208
Votes |
484
Posts
Account Closed
  • Investor
  • Henderson, NC
Replied
Originally posted by @Marian Smith:

We are in a temperate climate and almost every new house has natural gas heat because it is cheaper to operate.

I notice once again you failed to post the cost of natural gas in your area. Do you even know what it is? Without knowing you cannot make that statement. I'm betting you have not done the math.

I suspect Texas may have cheaper natural gas than most of the rest of the country, due to the oil production there. If this is the case then Texas would be an unusual example.

Also consider you do not need heat in the warm months, but you will still get a gas bill from $10-30, even though you used no gas. And no, you can't just turn it off in the summer, because they also charge a reconnection fee.

I DARE anybody to post your gas and electric rates and prove gas heating is cheaper.

User Stats

34
Posts
4
Votes
Crystal Dundas
  • Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
4
Votes |
34
Posts
Crystal Dundas
  • Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
Replied

Thanks for your input Robert. Lol

Thanks also to all of the rest of you. I am going to continue down the path of installing gas heat. As you said it is a cheaper option here in Philadelphia. 

Not sure if I figured out why I need to change the ac unit as well but if I can't get the price down, I will just go without  a central ac in that unit as we ha e cool enough summer's where wall units and ceiling fans work just fine for most folks.

User Stats

34
Posts
4
Votes
Crystal Dundas
  • Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
4
Votes |
34
Posts
Crystal Dundas
  • Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
Replied

Ps... Robert the gas rates is $1.13 per ccf in Philadelphia. The electric rate is about .09 per kWh. Kind of hard to compare Apple's and oranges and not sure if that it's possible to prove it through that methodology. However anecdotally, everyone I know in Philadelphia prefers gas heat due to the cost difference. I moved into a home with gas heat and am paying about $400  less in winter months to heat it. The electric company told me that Electric heating is just extremely expensive and my hvac guy said the same as did the majority of folks here on this forum. You're the only adamant proponent of electric heating. But hey you may very well have a secret sauce none of us are familiar with. With all of that being said, I'm going to swim with the crowd on this one 😉

User Stats

142
Posts
73
Votes
Nate T.
Pro Member
  • Investor
  • Tempe, AZ
73
Votes |
142
Posts
Nate T.
Pro Member
  • Investor
  • Tempe, AZ
Replied

$900 electric bills tell me that something is extremely out of whack. Unless you pinpoint the problem, changing to gas may or may not be the solution. You might want to get 1 or 2 of those energy efficiency analysis inspections. Of course those companies might try to upsell you on a lot of things like solar or new ac or whatever. But they should at least give you a better idea why the bills are so high, before you start making big changes.

  • Nate T.
  • User Stats

    1,109
    Posts
    897
    Votes
    Mike Wood
    • Developer
    • New Orleans, LA
    897
    Votes |
    1,109
    Posts
    Mike Wood
    • Developer
    • New Orleans, LA
    Replied

    @Crystal Dundas Not sure if anyone actually addressed you question. The answer depends on how the A/C cooling coil is integrated into the furnace air handler inside the house (or attic).   Some furnaces have the cooling coil inside the furnace, sometimes there is an AC cooling coil installed in the ductwork downstream of the furnace air handler.  If the cooling coil is inside the furnace (often the case with electric furnaces), the entire AC system will likely have to be replaced (as the older systems use a different Freon than new systems). 

    I would get some other quotes and let them know you are trying to keep the AC with as little cost as possible.  Just because one company wanted to do it one way does not mean another cant find a solution that works for you keep the AC.

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    User Stats

    34
    Posts
    4
    Votes
    Crystal Dundas
    • Investor
    • Philadelphia, PA
    4
    Votes |
    34
    Posts
    Crystal Dundas
    • Investor
    • Philadelphia, PA
    Replied

    Mike,

    Thank you for your response. That's very similar to what my hvac guy told me. I just needed to confirm because I didn't understand. Thanks for the explanation!

    Crystal

    Account Closed
    • Investor
    • Henderson, NC
    208
    Votes |
    484
    Posts
    Account Closed
    • Investor
    • Henderson, NC
    Replied

    Talk about the blind leading the blind...

    I was trying to save you money, but screw it, I'd rather see you waste some. You're totally wrong.

    To answer your question, yes, it is very easy to compare gas rates to electric rates, this just reinforces your complete ignorance on this subject. I would do the math for you and show you but I'm not going to waste any further time trying to help you. Obviously you have not done the math so how could you possibly know which one is cheaper? You don't.