baltimore landlords, we must fight the following......

baltimore landlords, we must fight the following......

Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 688 votes
There exists a significant problem in district court procedures that we must all be concerned with. Legally, there are three ways in which rent can be paid. These are to pay rent as required by the lease to your landlord, to receive a failure to pay rent judgement for not doing so, or to assert in or before rent court that a serious threat known to landlord, yet not repaired exists, and to pay all rent owed into a rent escrow account at the time of filing. Summarized, LEGALLY, THERE EXISTS NO OPTION FOR NON-PAYMENT OF RENT.
As many of you may be aware, district court, despite the law, has decided the a rent escrow case can be filed without rent being paid into court at the time of filing. THIS IS A VIOLATION OF THE LAW.
What is happening as a result, is that a tenant who wants to get out of a rent judgement (even during the rent judgement hearing itself) can pay a 30 dollar filing fee and delay a rent judgement from anywhere from 2 weeks to months without having to pay any rent, all while living comfortably in your home. Tenants are learning more and more of this procedure (and are even shown a video preempting rent court how to do so) and utilizing it in order to escape judgements and eviction.
Further, a tenant would now be incentivized to damage your house in order to justify/ elongate the escrow procedure.
Rest assured, if district court followed the letter of the law by requiring tenants to pay all rent owed "at the time of assertion of an escrow claim", none of the above would be a concern.
I recently got an invite to the monthly rent escrow procedures meeting at district court (attended by several judges, clerks, various attorneys, etc) and brought this problem to everyones attention, where this issue was dismissed despite it being the law.
As people that depend largely on the poor to pay their rent (or section 8 which means you are beyond poor) proper adherence to the letter of the law in these matters is vital.

The law can be found under the preconditions heading of rent escrow law in baltimore city's public laws, section 9. This paying of rent condition does not contain any ambiguity. What do we do???? not sure. however, a tenant being provided a legal way to live in a house without paying rent DESPITE THE LAW STATING THE OPPOSITE, is unacceptable I implore you, if you ever find yourself in an escrow hearing, request a dismissal due tot he fact that the preconditions have no t been met, and appeal to circuit court if not granted. If enough people follow this procedure, district court will eventually get the message. lets Scientology these people into submission. *scientology filed lawsuits on IRS agents all over the country until they were granted tax exempt status)
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Ned CareyPro Member
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Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
10y

There is no better way to promote poverty, injustice and prejudice than to selectively apply the law. 

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  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    10y

    I was just in landlord/tenant court today in Frederick. It's insane some of the stuff you hear out of the mouths of these tenants. Luckily I have yet to experience the situation you describe Seth.

    I think all new investors should consider spending a few days sitting in and listening at housing court, and at real estate commission hearings. The information one would learn would be an invaluable education for absolutely free.

  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    There is no better way to promote poverty, injustice and prejudice than to selectively apply the law. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Russell Brazil@Ned Carey@Account Closed  now you landlord types understand how us lender types like it when a defaulted borrower lawyers up and lives in the house for free many times for years and years...

    In Vegas there were billboards touting this.. for 990.." I can keep you in your house for one year call me "

    With the tenant base your dealing with most will know these tricks very shortly.. just like they know how to manipulate every single social program out there. 

    sad commentary really

  • Real Estate Investor · Arlington, VA · Member since 2012 · 302 posts · 277 votes
    10y

    @Account Closed Ugh, the Baltimore District Court: I had a judge, honorable Devy P. Russell...She shows up an hour late, doesn't even read the docket or evidence of the case, and dismisses it after a few minutes of all oral testimony - evidence, schmevidence, right?

    I felt leaving the district court feeling like I had dressed like a bum and didnt have a lawyer, I would have gotten better treatment. However, my silly mistake was that I was dressed nice, had on a nice dress and pearls, and a lawyer, so nothing about the unconstitionality (or adherence to precedent) meant anything. You are correct: We are appealing as far as we can. The district court system is a joke, and the only hope IS to get to a higher court where that ridiculousness,  (and lack of preparedness, and apparently, classism) isnt allowed, and the actual law, facts, and evidence actually gets read. I'll explain more on my blog post in a week or two about this in detail of what happened.

    Seth Sherman is right...I as so shocked at the blatant disregard for common legal courtesies (like, spending more than a few minutes on a very important case and reading the Freaking EVIDENCE) didn't happen. Ah well, onto appealing at the circuit court, then if need be, as high as we need to go. Now i just want the corruption, as well as lack of adherence to basic legal findings, is exposed. And hopefully, embarrasses them all. At this point, im paying to get this ridiculousness out into the open.

    However, I will now say with absolute conviction, that if Baltimore chases people who are honest (and apparently good dressers) away, who dont have sob stories, and keeps those that do, they are literally curating a society of people who dont have their act together, and driving away people that do. Baltimore - your future is of your own self making.

    You can probably tell outside of appealing my lawsuit (which I can't go into detail here about), I am so done with bmore - you can make great returns elsewhere. 

  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    10y

    I should come reread this thread everytime I think about buying a property in Baltimore.  Although the only property I really want in Baltimore is a condo at 234 Holliday st....even though I know that the property wont be a good investment, Im just in love with the units in this building.

  • Real Estate Investor · Arlington, VA · Member since 2012 · 302 posts · 277 votes
    10y

    Its the city workers and courts systems, rather than the tenants, that are the worse. It can be so in your face unjust...unconstitutional...They make you feel like its third world. No, make that Idiocracy. The tenants tend to usually be regular people. I can't say you shouldn't invest in Baltimore, but I will say its a lot of headaches, and you can get the same returns elsewhere. As someone who likes getting good returns with low stress, however, in that case I would advise against it. But, my husband can handle a lot more stress than I can, so he would have a much higher tolerance level of nonsense, so in that case, enjoy the high returns if high handedness of the court system.

  • Real Estate Agent · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2014 · 215 posts · 123 votes
    10y

    @Lisa Phillips@Russell Brazil@Ned Carey@Jay Hinrichs@Account Closed Has anyone tried reaching out to the landlord association? Or what about news outlets? I'm sure there is some way we can fight back...

  • Real Estate Investor · Arlington, VA · Member since 2012 · 302 posts · 277 votes
    10y

    @Gabriel G. Personally, I was just going to spend a lot of money that I may never get back to make a point for myself and other people, using the appeals processes for lack of following constitutional standards (My husband and I are considering it an investment in our lovely country, the USA). So, our target now is getting to the circuit courts, and appealing higher, because I don't think you can get a fair break in district court from what I witnessed.  If enough people want to organize, I would definitely be on board and use whatever platform I have to help mobilize. I never took on a corrupt city, so I don't have that type of background. Usually, the municipalities I deal with follow the law, so it seems like this has really just gotten out of hand in Baltimore over the last couple of years. 

  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    10y

    There is no fighting city hall. 

  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:

    There is no fighting city hall. 

     Wow that is the first thing I have seen you write that I disagree with and I couldn't disagree more strongly. If our founding fathers had that attitude, this country wouldn't exist and neither would the bill of rights. Your right, to wright those words wouldn't exist. 

    If more people stood up to corruption we would have less of it.

  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    Originally posted by @Lisa Phillips:

    I read that quickly and thought it said "Rob Stores" not "Sob Stories"  The point is kind of the same either way.

  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Gabriel G.:

    @Lisa Phillips@Russell Brazil@Ned Carey@Jay Hinrichs@Account Closed Has anyone tried reaching out to the landlord association? Or what about news outlets? I'm sure there is some way we can fight back...

     Gabe, I used to be involved with the Property Owners association who did a lot of lobbying.  They couldn't get enough members to continue and merged with the apartment owners association. Sadly it was simply because so many landlords were simply to cheap to join. 

    In addition to being involved with them I have been down to both the state house and senate to testify on some real estate issues. I wish I had more time to be involved with that type of work.

    I wish people in the city with power to make decisions, understood how much investment never comes to the city because of their short sighted policies.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Ned Carey  Try being in Orygun were this state feels that we are Orygun everyone wants to be us.. therefore you will bend to whatever BS tax's and rules we have for business.

    Oregon survives for basically 4 reasons.. Phil Knight at Nike.. Intel has there largest employee base here so they CANT leave  tourism and AG and you know how switched on those AG folks are.. then you have the PDX  inner city folks  Keep Portland weird just watch Portlandia it is not far from the truth and actually I would say is a pretty good representation of many of our esteemed residences.. But what we don't have is any ethnic diversity.. the state is 94% Caucasian so pretty Vanilla up this way

  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    @Jay Hinrichs What is "AG"? Attorney General?

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Ned Carey  Agricultural ground IE farm land. OREGON protects the farm land first at all costs then everything comes second.. next is Timber.. job development through development is a distant 3rd

  • Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 688 votes
    10y

    @Lisa Phillips I know Devy Russell, I have been in front of her multiple times. She's both a competent and very reasonable lady. Perhaps you should consider a different lawyer if you have a legitimate case that she wouldn't go your way on.

  • Real Estate Investor · Arlington, VA · Member since 2012 · 302 posts · 277 votes
    10y

    That wasn't my experience. Well, that is to say, she was really accommodating to the people with sob stories before me.  The evidence for the case wasn't read or even looked at, and she just had her mind set she wasn't listening to anything my lawyer was saying. It was the biggest mess I've ever witnessed. It seems like when the whim strikes, the judge you saw is there, but that wasn't evident when I was in front of her. I was appalled, really. When I saw this post, if what i was is going on, there is definitely a problem in Baltimore. However, I am learning appealing to the circuit court can be quite a pricey proposition.

  • Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 688 votes
    9y
    Lisa Phillips what typeof case was this and how did the appeal go?
  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    If you are investing in a tenant friendly district you need to understand that your courts mandate is to not evict tenants.

    Landlords must accept the fact that they are never going to change policy and are wasting their time chasing windmills if they think otherwise. I have experienced such a system first hand for a very long time and know better than to bang my head against a brick wall trying to change the "system". Tenants get away with murder because that is what the courts want, get over it. 

    You must learn how to work the system to your advantage by finding the weaknesses and use the applications that are enforced. As a example our courts will not evict for non payment of rent but will order tenants to pay or be evicted. This order is always applied to non payment and comes with a stiff financial penalty to the tenant. I therefor do not apply to evict for non payment I apply for a order to pay rent owed. I always get paid and the tenant learns a very costly lesson that they seldom repeat. 

    Learn the system, use the system and be creative when dealing with tenant problems.  Learn to "adjust tenant attitudes" outside the system.  

  • Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 688 votes
    9y
    Greg S. Im not blinded by pride, and understand all too well the inner-workings as well as how to manipulate them to my advantage. Saying that, there exists a policy in this situation where a tenant is legally authorized to live in a rental while not paying rent. The law states with no ambiguity that this policy is false. Must be fought
  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    I hear what you are saying, I operate in the most landlord oppressive jurisdiction imaginable where the system has no problem forcing landlords into bankruptcy to protect tenants.

    However you will notice that corporate landlords do not fight the system. The reason for this is because they know better. Moral outrage and righteous indignation is little more than a waste of time and energy.

    Organising independent landlords is a waste of time. Most do not even bother to learn their state landlord tenant regulations let alone care about legal issues regarding the operation of a business they treat as no more than a hobby. 

    Take a read through most of the landlord problems posted and you will quickly see they have never even read their state codes let alone dealt with the system. They are not operating a business and will tolerate bad tenant behaviour or throw money at tenants to resolve issues.

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