General Landlording & Rental Properties
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback
Updated about 9 years ago, 10/10/2015
Would you take a smoker who promises to quit?
We just closed on a very nice home and are asking a higher rent for it. It's outside of the summer months when this house would typically rent and we have been struggling to find tenants. We have two young men who are our only candidates at this point, and one of them is a construction worker who smokes. I have been very clear that there is no smoking on or near the premises of our house, not even outside, and surprisingly they have agreed to follow this rule and quit smoking as they really like the house. What should I do? Quitting smoking is very hard to do, and not something everyone is able to accomplish. I hope to find a better candidate before they send me all of their application paperwork so I will have a legit reason to tell them we found someone else first, but that may not happen. I know desperation is never a good reason to find a tenant, but several other REI actions hinge upon us getting this home rented. We have listed it everywhere possible and have gone as low on the rent as we can. I thought about implementing a fine system where if I smell smoke or see a cigarette butt, then they get a $50 fine. Or maybe a larger security deposit? What would you do?
#1 Personal Finance Contributor
- Rental Property Investor
- East Wenatchee, WA
- 16,092
- Votes |
- 10,239
- Posts
#1 Personal Finance Contributor
- Rental Property Investor
- East Wenatchee, WA
True @Nicole A.- I was stating a general guideline about wandering backpackers, not the OP's single-family property so much in an A neighborhood.
By hanging with 'their own kind', I meant a smoker is more likely to get into a relationship with a smoker. 2 single smoker guys are more likely to acquire smoker gf's is all. Now you have 4. You're points are valid. I have a lot of friends and tradesmen that smoke. Thanks for letting me clarify!
#3 Guru, Book, & Course Reviews Contributor
- Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator
- Springfield, MO
- 12,874
- Votes |
- 21,918
- Posts
#3 Guru, Book, & Course Reviews Contributor
- Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator
- Springfield, MO
Originally posted by @Shannon Sadik:
We just closed on a very nice home and are asking a higher rent for it. It's outside of the summer months when this house would typically rent and we have been struggling to find tenants. We have two young men who are our only candidates at this point, and one of them is a construction worker who smokes. I have been very clear that there is no smoking on or near the premises of our house, not even outside, and surprisingly they have agreed to follow this rule and quit smoking as they really like the house. What should I do? Quitting smoking is very hard to do, and not something everyone is able to accomplish. I hope to find a better candidate before they send me all of their application paperwork so I will have a legit reason to tell them we found someone else first, but that may not happen. I know desperation is never a good reason to find a tenant, but several other REI actions hinge upon us getting this home rented. We have listed it everywhere possible and have gone as low on the rent as we can. I thought about implementing a fine system where if I smell smoke or see a cigarette butt, then they get a $50 fine. Or maybe a larger security deposit? What would you do?
Didn't read the thread.
I had a wife that took me after I promised to quit smoking, we got married and I quit. Later on, I quit her too!
Any fine you try to impose like that won't stand, how can you prove someone else didn't drop a butt? Car drives by, tosses a butt or a paper cup out, either blows into the yard, your claim is that it belongs to them?
If you really don't like smoking that much, don't marry them in the first place in business! :)
Nope
No smoking, period!
Sooner or later they will leave and you will be looking for new tenants again and most applicants will complain about the smoke and move on to the next property.
On the other hand, 99/100 properties are non-smoking, this may be an opportunity to take advantage of the situation and advertise to smokers who are willing too pay more to enjoy their habit. You won't need to worry about removing the smell because you are targeting smokers.
I'm not too sure if targeting smokers will affect insurance rates?
Try him out or sit tight. Outdoor smoking tenants are the least of our problems owning and controlling assets.
Frank
It depends on your long-term goals about this being a non-smoking property and your own tolerance and sensitivity to smoke. If it's in an A neighborhood and you want this place to be a non-smoking property, you won't be able to get rid of the stench to a level that would be acceptable to many non-smoker tenants. I'm a non-smoker with a very sensitive sense of smell and certainly can tell if there's been any kind of smoking in a space. That being said, we have great tenants who do occasionally smoke outside (or have family members who do) and my nose can tell they're being good and never smoking inside.
Is there carpeting in the house? You may have to change carpets if they smoke. Is there a fireplace with a stone hearth? Residue from both the wood smoke and cigarette smoke will get into the nooks and crannies of the stone, and is impossible to get rid of. I have a friend going through this right now and is considering either getting rid of her hearth or moving because of the stench.
Regarding the smell on their clothing (especially outerwear)- that will depend on how heavily they smoke. When meeting with them I'd be able to tell how seriously they're trying to quit by the smell on their jackets. I once had a home visit from a sales rep who obviously had a few cigs in his car before entering my home to talk about his product (maybe he was nervous?). He reeked. It was awful. I complained to his supervisor.
On edit - this story in today's local news
Anyone who says it sticks to your clothes and make the house stink, you have been lied too. if the house stinks its because someone smoked inside. It doesn't just make your home smell because you can smell it on your clothes.
Try this with any outside only smoker who hasn't has a cig in the last 15 minuets. stand 10 feet from them and see if you can smell it. I bet you cant...
Originally posted by @Kevin Harrison:
This is always a touchy situation. There have been Heroin addicts that say cigarettes are harder to quit than smack, but then there is people like my old boss who would smoke a pack a day consistently then just decide 1 day to quit for 3-6 months like it was nothing.
What I will say is that I think your policy is too strict for someone who is desperate to rent, it would be fine if you had candidates beating down your doors to get this place but that does not seem to be the case. I think as long as people agree to not smoke inside and clean up the cigarettes after themselves then there should be no issue.
This is really a personal preference.
Yes, quitting absolutely can just as hard or sometimes harder than quitting heroin. In fact, about seven years ago I was over at a friend's house. Her husband is a former heroin addict. When I described to him exactly what I went through every time I'd tried to quit smoking, he put his hand on my shoulder and he said, 'You just described what I went through.'
I finally had to use Chantix because I was medically forced to quit. Six years after I quit, my hubs finally agreed to letting me start vaping because I was still dealing with the psychological addiction of smoking. And I have bad nerves and an anxiety disorder to begin with! My personal vaporizer has been a life-saver!
As far as any prospective tenants in the future and smoking, I would advertise 'no smoking indoors - vaping allowed.' And as a courtesy to anyone who would smoke, I'd put a decorative ash can or bucket outside for their use as a way to deter them from leaving butts all over the place.
Then I would suggest to them that they empty the can/bucket at least once a week. And I'd also suggest they try - if they hadn't already - using a PV (personal vaporizer) indoors, especially during the winter months or rainy days.
The ones "trying to quit" seldom do. They may even be trying to evade your non-smoking screening, and worse yet, they will be smoking inside in hiding, a fact you may not discover until move out.
You may be better with a distant designated smoking area --to have it out of the house--or not getting a tenant with a smoking background altogether.
My win/win here If they are construction workers, offer to buy the materials for them to build a little covered shed or gazebo 50-100 feet from the house where they can smoke their hearts out. That way it is honest and in the open--but never in or near the house.... If it is that important, maybe think about it. Otherwise, just get non-smokers. It is too hard to police everyday and not a workable system (you'd be stressed and in conflict and maybe violating their privacy if peeking in or around the place too much).
Renter pays rent for 2 years and leaves all is well. You look at the house and the paint is a little faded. The carpet while clean is a little mashed down but all normal "Wear and tear". You realize you have to repaint and replace a carpet or two to continue to charge a premium. No big deal it's the cost of doing business.
Case one you spend a few bucks and are out renting it again.
Case two: You smell a hint of smoke and the lease says no smoking. You now have a security deposit to help replace that paint and carpet with and are out renting it again.
:)
- Mike Cumbie
"Quitting smoking is easy...I have done it 1000s of times" --Mark Twain
in other words, no they will not quit for the home.
Everyone, thanks for your input. My question was never IF they were going to quit. I assumed that would be next to impossible. It was more a legal question/discrimination issue that if your rules state no smoking and they say they won't, then what? How can you say "Sorry, I don't believe you." In the past, I've smelled smoke on applicants very strongly and asked them point blank if they smoked and they said no. Fortunately, I could find other reasons not to rent to those folks and def wouldn't since now I KNOW they are liars, but in this situation, I had no other option. Everything else checked out and no one else lined up.
After all that, it's a non-issue now because after a week of communication and me checking all their references, etc, they have just announced that maybe the place is too expensive for them, so now I'm back to hunting again. :/
Anyone have creative ideas on how to rent in a non-peak season for a high rent? Should I offer a free TV?? :)
yes as long as they put down a security deposit and with an agreement not to smoke inside the dwelling or they will forfeit the deposit.
@Shannon Sadik I do not want to rent to smokers. I'm not sure what I would do if I were you. I have however experience cleaning out an apartment which had been rented to a smoker for 5 years. The property belonged to my brother who was hospitalized and needed his rental property prepared to be re-rented.
They left butts in the carpet, cabinets, sink and etc. I opened the windows for two consecutive weeks. I pulled up the carpet (thank God there were hard wood floors underneath). I had the floors resurface. I washed the walls. In the final analysis I got rid of the smell.
I said all of that to give you an ideal of what you may be in for. I would ask for an extra fifty for the first 18 months. If they leave before 18 months less damage. If they stay longer you will have 900.00 that can be used to clean.
If you decide to paint the interior please spend the time to has the walls washed before painting to prevent the smoke from being trapped into the walls.
Enjoy as you prosper.....
@Shannon Sadik I meant to add all smokers aren't the same. I have had two friends that smoke that never smelled like smoke in their homes, cars, nor clothes. I learned that one smoked after 4 years when I noticed a cigarette in his car.I complained saying that it was rude for someone to leave it in his car. He explained that the cigarette was his. That he been a smoker for over twenty years. That he always smokes outside and stays out for a while after he finish smoking to air out his clothing. I said it works. I wanted to acknowledge that there are considerate smokers.
I would go with a higher security deposit. It's unfortunate that you have to settle on less than ideal tenants. I would insist on a 6 month lease right now as well and have the renewal be during the summer when there is a larger renters pool. If it doesn't work out over 5 months kindly give them a 30 day no cause notice that you won't be renewing the lease.
Best of luck!
Originally posted by @Matt Motil:
I would add a penalty into the lease, kind of like a service call for stupid stuff. Honestly, you will never stop someone from smoking outside the property if that's what they choose to do, but as long as they clean up after themselves then it shouldn't be the end of the world. I'd tell them that you'll make monthly inspections of the property and the fines will be assessed accordingly.
Only problem with that is you typically need to give at least 24 hours' notice before inspecting a rental and that would give them time to clean up after themselves, so you still wouldn't know, except if the inside smells of smoke.
Originally posted by @Maggie Tasseron:
Originally posted by @Matt Motil:
I would add a penalty into the lease, kind of like a service call for stupid stuff. Honestly, you will never stop someone from smoking outside the property if that's what they choose to do, but as long as they clean up after themselves then it shouldn't be the end of the world. I'd tell them that you'll make monthly inspections of the property and the fines will be assessed accordingly.
Only problem with that is you typically need to give at least 24 hours' notice before inspecting a rental and that would give them time to clean up after themselves, so you still wouldn't know, except if the inside smells of smoke.
Isn't that the whole point? You don't want them smoking in the house. As long as they are picking up after themselves around the exterior of the property it's accomplishing what you are trying to have done. It's not about collecting money from your tenants, it's about keeping them from smoking inside and keeping the exterior tidy.
Originally posted by @Matt Motil:
Originally posted by @Maggie Tasseron:
Originally posted by @Matt Motil:
I would add a penalty into the lease, kind of like a service call for stupid stuff. Honestly, you will never stop someone from smoking outside the property if that's what they choose to do, but as long as they clean up after themselves then it shouldn't be the end of the world. I'd tell them that you'll make monthly inspections of the property and the fines will be assessed accordingly.
Only problem with that is you typically need to give at least 24 hours' notice before inspecting a rental and that would give them time to clean up after themselves, so you still wouldn't know, except if the inside smells of smoke.
Isn't that the whole point? You don't want them smoking in the house. As long as they are picking up after themselves around the exterior of the property it's accomplishing what you are trying to have done. It's not about collecting money from your tenants, it's about keeping them from smoking inside and keeping the exterior tidy.
That's true. I wouldn't have a problem with tenants smoking outside either. However, I've lived in extreme heat and extreme cold and I know my tenants would smoke in the house during the mean seasons. Guess it's just a judgment call...