Advice for newbie. Evicting Sec8 tenant

[Agatha Simmons]

I’ve camped out on this forum and on Reddit and realize how many newbie mistakes I’ve made but hear me out.

I inherited a S8 tenant with my new 2-family home in NYC. I live on the main unit. It started with heat complaints. I addressed them each time, but the unit was never warm enough for them. It was also difficult to assess the heating situation after repairs since tenant refused to provide key to access unit for repairs and/emergencies, citing “privacy and safety” concerns. I decided not to fight the situation. Months later, Tenant then accuses me of “threatening” her because of the keys situation.

Next up, tenant complains of mold and faulty cabinets. I go in the unit, no signs of mold and sturdy cabinets. 

  Next up roaches. Tenant initially says it’s a new roach problem that “started when I bought the house”. I provided gel bait, then exterminator. Tenant is now saying that she’s in a hotel because the issue is getting worse and that the apt has had roaches for “years”. 

There are couple more but that will take too long to detail. 

The final straw was just last week when tenant randomly attacked my competency in my professional career. The lease ends in December and I will not renew. I hope tenant willingly leaves because NYCHA actually notified months ago that she was approved for another voucher. So I know she is looking but she told me she was not moving yet because it takes a long time to find another unit.

I’ve seen discouraging accounts about evicting S8 tenants and want to see if anyone has had success and how to go about it if she refuses to leave. Does she have any legit habitability claims to sue for, especially since she claims to stay in hotel now? I have made reasonable efforts on all complaints - but I guess you can never make some people happy. I’ll obviously contact a local attorney but any advice or suggestions would be helpful. 

[Mohammed Rahman]

Hey @Agatha Simmons - firstly, sorry for the experience you're having right now. Most section 8 tenants are decent, few bad apples ruin the bunch. 

Based on what you're telling me, I'd also advise you to begin the process of evicting/non-renewing the lease. My advice would be to specifically retain a potential eviction attorney from the start, in order to be prepared for how this *may* go. 

If your tenant has been playing these "schemes" then likely they've done this with the previous landlord and gotten away with it - so I hope you bought the property for a good price in order to account for this potential headache. 

If the tenant is claiming to be living in a hotel, she may try to get you to reimburse for that cost unless section 8 has a new process to reimburse them for this... which sounds absurd but I'll let you deduce whether or not you're dealing with someone who is used to paying for things out of their own pocket. 

Let me know if you'd like to hop on a call to chat, but this is one of the reasons why I mostly advise clients to always negotiate vacant delivery on properties before closing. 

[Theresa Harris]

Talk to her case worker and let her know that you aren't renewing her lease.  If there are lease violations, mention them-you not having a key to access the unit WITH proper notice or in case of emergency is one of them.

I'd also tell the tenant that they are clearly not happy there, so finding a new place is in their best interest as well and as they have several months, they should have lots of options. I'd also tell them if they need to leave before Dec, as long as they provide 30 days' notice, you are fine with it.

[Agatha Simmons]

Quote from @Mohammed Rahman:

Hey @Agatha Simmons - firstly, sorry for the experience you're having right now. Most section 8 tenants are decent, few bad apples ruin the bunch. 

Based on what you're telling me, I'd also advise you to begin the process of evicting/non-renewing the lease. My advice would be to specifically retain a potential eviction attorney from the start, in order to be prepared for how this *may* go. 

If your tenant has been playing these "schemes" then likely they've done this with the previous landlord and gotten away with it - so I hope you bought the property for a good price in order to account for this potential headache. 

If the tenant is claiming to be living in a hotel, she may try to get you to reimburse for that cost unless section 8 has a new process to reimburse them for this... which sounds absurd but I'll let you deduce whether or not you're dealing with someone who is used to paying for things out of their own pocket. 

Let me know if you'd like to hop on a call to chat, but this is one of the reasons why I mostly advise clients to always negotiate vacant delivery on properties before closing. 

Yes, I’d love to. What time are you available and I’ll give you a call

[Agatha Simmons]

Yes I’d love to. When are you available and I’ll give you a call

[Mohammed Rahman]

Hey @Agatha Simmons - shoot me a text at the number in my post signature, or just send me a direct message via BiggerPockets. 

I can't write my phone number in this post because BP moderators will take it down, but you're welcome to text first and we'll find a mutual time that works. 

[Agatha Simmons]

Quote from @Theresa Harris:

Talk to her case worker and let her know that you aren't renewing her lease.  If there are lease violations, mention them-you not having a key to access the unit WITH proper notice or in case of emergency is one of them.

I'd also tell the tenant that they are clearly not happy there, so finding a new place is in their best interest as well and as they have several months, they should have lots of options. I'd also tell them if they need to leave before Dec, as long as they provide 30 days' notice, you are fine with it.

Yes, will do. Thanks Theresa.

[Agatha Simmons]

Quote from @Theresa Harris:

Talk to her case worker and let her know that you aren't renewing her lease.  If there are lease violations, mention them-you not having a key to access the unit WITH proper notice or in case of emergency is one of them.

I'd also tell the tenant that they are clearly not happy there, so finding a new place is in their best interest as well and as they have several months, they should have lots of options. I'd also tell them if they need to leave before Dec, as long as they provide 30 days' notice, you are fine with it.

Yes, will do. Thanks Theresa.

[Nathan Gesner]

Quote from @Agatha Simmons:

Uffda.

One of the biggest mistakes landlords make is failing to stand up to a problematic tenant. This one has been walking all over you. I guarantee your life would be so much better if you removed her and replaced her with a good renter.

Do yourself a favor: buy "Every Landlord's Legal Guide" by NOLO. Written by attorney investors, it's full of practical advice about the management of investment property, has sample forms that can be edited, and - most importantly - tells you what your primary state laws are and where you can read them. It's updated yearly and is the best $40 you'll spend as a Landlord. 

[Agatha Simmons]

Quote from @Nathan Gesner:

Quote from @Agatha Simmons:

Uffda.

One of the biggest mistakes landlords make is failing to stand up to a problematic tenant. This one has been walking all over you. I guarantee your life would be so much better if you removed her and replaced her with a good renter.

Do yourself a favor: buy "Every Landlord's Legal Guide" by NOLO. Written by attorney investors, it's full of practical advice about the management of investment property, has sample forms that can be edited, and - most importantly - tells you what your primary state laws are and where you can read them. It's updated yearly and is the best $40 you'll spend as a Landlord. 

Thanks Nathan. Yes, I can see that. Definitely an experience I’ll be learning a lot from. Thank you.

[James Wise]

Quote from @Agatha Simmons:

I’ve camped out on this forum and on Reddit and realize how many newbie mistakes I’ve made but hear me out.

I inherited a S8 tenant with my new 2-family home in NYC. I live on the main unit. It started with heat complaints. I addressed them each time, but the unit was never warm enough for them. It was also difficult to assess the heating situation after repairs since tenant refused to provide key to access unit for repairs and/emergencies, citing “privacy and safety” concerns. I decided not to fight the situation. Months later, Tenant then accuses me of “threatening” her because of the keys situation.

Next up, tenant complains of mold and faulty cabinets. I go in the unit, no signs of mold and sturdy cabinets. 

  Next up roaches. Tenant initially says it’s a new roach problem that “started when I bought the house”. I provided gel bait, then exterminator. Tenant is now saying that she’s in a hotel because the issue is getting worse and that the apt has had roaches for “years”. 

There are couple more but that will take too long to detail. 

The final straw was just last week when tenant randomly attacked my competency in my professional career. The lease ends in December and I will not renew. I hope tenant willingly leaves because NYCHA actually notified months ago that she was approved for another voucher. So I know she is looking but she told me she was not moving yet because it takes a long time to find another unit.

I’ve seen discouraging accounts about evicting S8 tenants and want to see if anyone has had success and how to go about it if she refuses to leave. Does she have any legit habitability claims to sue for, especially since she claims to stay in hotel now? I have made reasonable efforts on all complaints - but I guess you can never make some people happy. I’ll obviously contact a local attorney but any advice or suggestions would be helpful. 

 Evicting a Section 8 tenant is the exact same thing as evicting any other tenant.