Tenant Personal Items

[Carl W.]

Hello all,

I had repairs done in tenant's unit and they had a meltdown over damaged property. Tenant still seems to believe I am responsible for their personal items. (We've had a prior incident but tenant dropped it after I said no.) But when I said no this time, tenant wanted to exchange words with the contractor. I felt that was inappropriate. Apparently, the two parties had a conversation before work even started after concern was expressed by the tenant. Tenant took contractor's word that everything was fine and did nothing. (The particular area the contractor was working in was clear so the contractor felt confident that things were indeed fine.) However, damage occurred anyway as a result of the nature of the work being performed. My response to the tenant was that expressed concern meant risk was known beforehand and proper steps should've been taken to protect property regardless.

I'm struggling to find a nice way to reinforce the fact that I am not responsible for tenant's personal items. I've already referred them back to their lease agreement. I thought this issue was resolved after the last incident.

I now dread having repairs done in the unit. I feel like I need to stay and supervise every second to make sure personal property is protected. Not to mention, it's becoming increasely difficult to find people who'll agree to return to the unit to perform repairs due to tenant's behavior.

How would you handle this?

[Kevin Sobilo]

Quote from @Carl W.:

Hello all,

I had repairs done in tenant's unit and they had a meltdown over damaged property. Tenant still seems to believe I am responsible for their personal items. (We've had a prior incident but tenant dropped it after I said no.) But when I said no this time, tenant wanted to exchange words with the contractor. I felt that was inappropriate. Apparently, the two parties had a conversation before work even started after concern was expressed by the tenant. Tenant took contractor's word that everything was fine and did nothing. (The particular area the contractor was working in was clear so the contractor felt confident that things were indeed fine.) However, damage occurred anyway as a result of the nature of the work being performed. My response to the tenant was that expressed concern meant risk was known beforehand and proper steps should've been taken to protect property regardless.

I'm struggling to find a nice way to reinforce the fact that I am not responsible for tenant's personal items. I've already referred them back to their lease agreement. I thought this issue was resolved after the last incident.

I now dread having repairs done in the unit. I feel like I need to stay and supervise every second to make sure personal property is protected. Not to mention, it's becoming increasely difficult to find people who'll agree to return to the unit to perform repairs due to tenant's behavior.

How would you handle this?

@Carl W., first off you never state who should be paying for the damage? You seem to be putting the responsibility on the tenant but the tenant just listened to the contractor. 

The contractor is responsible. A licensed and insured contractor has insurance coverage for damage they cause while doing their work. So, if its a small claim they should pay it out of pocket otherwise they should turn it over to their insurance to pay.

If you hired someone uninsured, then of course that falls on you.

I'm not sure, but from a who is responsible to who standpoint, since the tenant contracts with you for the rental, you may be responsible to pay the tenant and then get reimbursed from your contractor. That is probably the best way to handle it.

[Nathan Gesner]

Quote from @Carl W.:

It would help if your description weren't so vague. What work was done? What was damaged?

In the future, let the tenant know they need to clear their personal items out of the area that will be worked on. I have handled thousands and thousands of maintenance requests over the years and there's only been 2-3 instances where the tenant suffered some damage.

[Carl W.]

Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:

Quote from @Carl W.:

Hello all,

I had repairs done in tenant's unit and they had a meltdown over damaged property. Tenant still seems to believe I am responsible for their personal items. (We've had a prior incident but tenant dropped it after I said no.) But when I said no this time, tenant wanted to exchange words with the contractor. I felt that was inappropriate. Apparently, the two parties had a conversation before work even started after concern was expressed by the tenant. Tenant took contractor's word that everything was fine and did nothing. (The particular area the contractor was working in was clear so the contractor felt confident that things were indeed fine.) However, damage occurred anyway as a result of the nature of the work being performed. My response to the tenant was that expressed concern meant risk was known beforehand and proper steps should've been taken to protect property regardless.

I'm struggling to find a nice way to reinforce the fact that I am not responsible for tenant's personal items. I've already referred them back to their lease agreement. I thought this issue was resolved after the last incident.

I now dread having repairs done in the unit. I feel like I need to stay and supervise every second to make sure personal property is protected. Not to mention, it's becoming increasely difficult to find people who'll agree to return to the unit to perform repairs due to tenant's behavior.

How would you handle this?

@Carl W., first off you never state who should be paying for the damage? You seem to be putting the responsibility on the tenant but the tenant just listened to the contractor. 

The contractor is responsible. A licensed and insured contractor has insurance coverage for damage they cause while doing their work. So, if its a small claim they should pay it out of pocket otherwise they should turn it over to their insurance to pay.

If you hired someone uninsured, then of course that falls on you.

I'm not sure, but from a who is responsible to who standpoint, since the tenant contracts with you for the rental, you may be responsible to pay the tenant and then get reimbursed from your contractor. That is probably the best way to handle it.

Thanks for the feedback. My only issue is the tenant is a repeat offender and was already put on notice regarding this issue. IMO, they only asked the contractor in order to shift blame. How many times can I have repairs done in their unit and they cry afterwards that they didn't know they needed to properly secure personal items? So if I'm understanding you I should completely remove myself from these situations moving forward? I'm honestly tired of being stuck in the middle.

[Kevin Sobilo]

Quote from @Carl W.:

Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:

Quote from @Carl W.:

Hello all,

I had repairs done in tenant's unit and they had a meltdown over damaged property. Tenant still seems to believe I am responsible for their personal items. (We've had a prior incident but tenant dropped it after I said no.) But when I said no this time, tenant wanted to exchange words with the contractor. I felt that was inappropriate. Apparently, the two parties had a conversation before work even started after concern was expressed by the tenant. Tenant took contractor's word that everything was fine and did nothing. (The particular area the contractor was working in was clear so the contractor felt confident that things were indeed fine.) However, damage occurred anyway as a result of the nature of the work being performed. My response to the tenant was that expressed concern meant risk was known beforehand and proper steps should've been taken to protect property regardless.

I'm struggling to find a nice way to reinforce the fact that I am not responsible for tenant's personal items. I've already referred them back to their lease agreement. I thought this issue was resolved after the last incident.

I now dread having repairs done in the unit. I feel like I need to stay and supervise every second to make sure personal property is protected. Not to mention, it's becoming increasely difficult to find people who'll agree to return to the unit to perform repairs due to tenant's behavior.

How would you handle this?

@Carl W., first off you never state who should be paying for the damage? You seem to be putting the responsibility on the tenant but the tenant just listened to the contractor. 

The contractor is responsible. A licensed and insured contractor has insurance coverage for damage they cause while doing their work. So, if its a small claim they should pay it out of pocket otherwise they should turn it over to their insurance to pay.

If you hired someone uninsured, then of course that falls on you.

I'm not sure, but from a who is responsible to who standpoint, since the tenant contracts with you for the rental, you may be responsible to pay the tenant and then get reimbursed from your contractor. That is probably the best way to handle it.

Thanks for the feedback. My only issue is the tenant is a repeat offender and was already put on notice regarding this issue. IMO, they only asked the contractor in order to shift blame. How many times can I have repairs done in their unit and they cry afterwards that they didn't know they needed to properly secure personal items? So if I'm understanding you I should completely remove myself from these situations moving forward? I'm honestly tired of being stuck in the middle.

Who were they supposed to ask what they needed to secure and what they didn't? The CONTRACTOR knew EXACTLY what the work would entail the tenant did not. You also stated that the area the contractor was working in was "clear".

In fact, the contractor could have should have moved items if need be.

If you hired a painting contractor to paint a room, that MIGHT include them moving all the furniture, covering it etc to protect it. So, contractors deal with this issue themselves all the time.

If the contractor broke one of the windows would that also be the tenant's fault or would it be your fault for not removing the window before the contractor did the work? OR would it be the CONTRACTOR's responsibility?!?

The contractor is responsible that is why you hire reputable licensed and insured contractors. If the tenant refused to cooperate to make the work area ready for work to begin the contractor should just walk away, if they say the work area is ready to go then that's on them whatever happens. Like I said contractors carry insurance that covers this type of issue that's what its there for.

The only way for you to remove yourself would be to hire a PM and then the PM would be in the middle. If you want to self manage your properties THIS is the work you are CHOOSING to do. So, why be frustrated by something you CHOOSE to do. That would be like ordering pizza and then complaining that the delivery guy brought you a pizza! 

[Andrew B.]

If contractor told tenant they did not need to move their property, then the contractor is responsible for the damage. I can't believe we are having this conversation. 

[Carl W.]

Quote from @Andrew B.:

If contractor told tenant they did not need to move their property, then the contractor is responsible for the damage. I can't believe we are having this conversation. 

If you cannot believe we're having this conversation maybe you don't need to participate in it. No one is forcing you to be here. Thanks.

[Adam Bartomeo]

Our only response to our tenants in these situations is, 

Please contact your rents insurance agent, they should be able to help you...

[Carl W.]

Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:

Quote from @Carl W.:

Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:

Quote from @Carl W.:

Hello all,

I had repairs done in tenant's unit and they had a meltdown over damaged property. Tenant still seems to believe I am responsible for their personal items. (We've had a prior incident but tenant dropped it after I said no.) But when I said no this time, tenant wanted to exchange words with the contractor. I felt that was inappropriate. Apparently, the two parties had a conversation before work even started after concern was expressed by the tenant. Tenant took contractor's word that everything was fine and did nothing. (The particular area the contractor was working in was clear so the contractor felt confident that things were indeed fine.) However, damage occurred anyway as a result of the nature of the work being performed. My response to the tenant was that expressed concern meant risk was known beforehand and proper steps should've been taken to protect property regardless.

I'm struggling to find a nice way to reinforce the fact that I am not responsible for tenant's personal items. I've already referred them back to their lease agreement. I thought this issue was resolved after the last incident.

I now dread having repairs done in the unit. I feel like I need to stay and supervise every second to make sure personal property is protected. Not to mention, it's becoming increasely difficult to find people who'll agree to return to the unit to perform repairs due to tenant's behavior.

How would you handle this?

@Carl W., first off you never state who should be paying for the damage? You seem to be putting the responsibility on the tenant but the tenant just listened to the contractor. 

The contractor is responsible. A licensed and insured contractor has insurance coverage for damage they cause while doing their work. So, if its a small claim they should pay it out of pocket otherwise they should turn it over to their insurance to pay.

If you hired someone uninsured, then of course that falls on you.

I'm not sure, but from a who is responsible to who standpoint, since the tenant contracts with you for the rental, you may be responsible to pay the tenant and then get reimbursed from your contractor. That is probably the best way to handle it.

Thanks for the feedback. My only issue is the tenant is a repeat offender and was already put on notice regarding this issue. IMO, they only asked the contractor in order to shift blame. How many times can I have repairs done in their unit and they cry afterwards that they didn't know they needed to properly secure personal items? So if I'm understanding you I should completely remove myself from these situations moving forward? I'm honestly tired of being stuck in the middle.

Who were they supposed to ask what they needed to secure and what they didn't? The CONTRACTOR knew EXACTLY what the work would entail the tenant did not. You also stated that the area the contractor was working in was "clear".

In fact, the contractor could have should have moved items if need be.

If you hired a painting contractor to paint a room, that MIGHT include them moving all the furniture, covering it etc to protect it. So, contractors deal with this issue themselves all the time.

If the contractor broke one of the windows would that also be the tenant's fault or would it be your fault for not removing the window before the contractor did the work? OR would it be the CONTRACTOR's responsibility?!?

The contractor is responsible that is why you hire reputable licensed and insured contractors. If the tenant refused to cooperate to make the work area ready for work to begin the contractor should just walk away, if they say the work area is ready to go then that's on them whatever happens. Like I said contractors carry insurance that covers this type of issue that's what its there for.

The only way for you to remove yourself would be to hire a PM and then the PM would be in the middle. If you want to self manage your properties THIS is the work you are CHOOSING to do. So, why be frustrated by something you CHOOSE to do. That would be like ordering pizza and then complaining that the delivery guy brought you a pizza! 

I'm frustrated because I care about my property and the happiness of both parties that I'd like to continue to do business with. I turn to the boards for support, as they've been helpful in the past providing insight. Maybe there will come a point where I no longer care and it just becomes work to me too. Thanks for your feedback.

[Carl W.]

Quote from @Adam Bartomeo:

Our only response to our tenants in these situations is, 

Please contact your rents insurance agent, they should be able to help you...

Got it. Thanks for the feedback.

[Theresa Harris]

Have the tenant talk to the contractor.  Not sure what happened (eg glass vase fell off a counter when jackhammering was done) or the value of the item, but the contractor said tenant's stuff should be fine and clearly it wasn't.  Let them sort it out.

If this tenant is a problem, I would suggest not renewing their lease when it comes up for renewal.

[Butch Greene]

Any time a contractor goes in a property, you can have their insurance agent send you a certificate of insurance w/ you as Certificate Holder.  Just because a policy date is on the original, doesn't mean the contractor's policy is active.

We do it all day every day for property owners.  

Also, Adam is partially correct, but that can be messy for you and the tenant.  If they file a renters insurance claim, the carrier may seek recompensation from your contractor and/or you if it's the contractors responsibility to cover the damages.  If the contractor is uninsured, it falls to you.  

I'll assume you don't know this, but you should require every renter to have you as an Additional Named Insured on their renters insurance policy for the same reason you want to get a Certificate from a contractor doing new work.  If tenant doesn't pay their policy, you get a notice & can take action to enforce it.

[Adam Michael Andrews]

Quote from @Andrew B.:

If contractor told tenant they did not need to move their property, then the contractor is responsible for the damage. I can't believe we are having this conversation. 

This goes to basic fairness that if the tenant spoke to the contractor and secured items as instructed that they should not be responsible for items damaged. Unfortunately you do need to help them litigate this as the one who hired the contractor.

If the damage was obvious, it’s rather disappointing that the contractor wouldn’t leave a note with tenant about the issue and leave you out of it. You seem to be attaching the blame to the tenant, but really the contractor has multiple & the most options to prevent this. Namely, giving better instructions to the tenant, working more carefully to prevent damages, and if damages do occur, settling that with the tenant on their own. So really your contractor let you down on three counts here, not the tenant. The tenant has one responsibility- to follow the instructions given by the contractor, which it sounds like they did.

[Dan H.]

Quote from @Carl W.:

Quote from @Andrew B.:

If contractor told tenant they did not need to move their property, then the contractor is responsible for the damage. I can't believe we are having this conversation. 

If you cannot believe we're having this conversation maybe you don't need to participate in it. No one is forcing you to be here. Thanks.

 You post in a forum but do not like the response.  I propose in such case you should not post in a forum.  Forums exist in large part to get opinions/advice on the thread subject.

It is not reasonable for a tenant to protect their belongings for anything that can go wrong.  

I require my tenants to have renter insurance and for a large expense that would be an option.  My handyman broke a bed.  I paid for a new bed and did not expect the tenant to file a claim.  If it was a licensed contractor, I would have expected the contractor to pay for damage they caused especially true if the contractor had verbalized that the tenant’s belongings were going to be safe where they were located.

If a contractor believes the items are safe and likely has the best understanding of the work to perform, then why would the tenant believe otherwise?

the one party I know should not be paying for the damages is the tenant regardless of if it has happened before.  

Good luck