Joe,
Bad news – Texas has a law that I was not aware of that prohibits wage garnishments. Please see the attached.
I’ve done a little research, and this seems to be a bad law, or at least a bad interpretation of Texas law, since this is an Ohio judgment and the US Constitution requires each state to honor other states’ judgments and court orders.
Still, in order to start arguing with Nordstrom (and eventually Sephora) over their application of the Texas law, I would have to start charging you hourly – and I’m not sure that effort is worthwhile.
The cheaper way to go is to send a subpoena to Nordstrom and Sephora and require those employers to tell us what bank they are depositing Beth and Clancy’s paychecks into. (This assumes they use direct deposit.) Once money is in a bank, it’s no longer “wages” and even under Texas’s bad law, can be seized to pay a judgment.
There will be additional court costs associated with the bank-subpoena route – but again, it will be less than fighting the wage garnishment issue. And as court costs, they will get reimbursed by the former tenants once money comes in (if it ever does).
Shall I proceed with the subpoenas?
Any suggestions here people? Especially you TX landlords?
One thing not yet mentioned is that once you have a judgment from the courts, you can then forgive the bad debt (once you reach the point of giving up on collecting) and issue a 1099C for that forgiven debt to now become income for which the deadbeat now will owe income taxes. That's how forgiveness becomes revenge.
Overall, this is pretty good advice @Joe Delia (I'm assuming you've got an Ohio judgment against someone who has moved to Texas.) Your lawyer is correct that you can't garnish wages down here. (I say this as a landlord and a lawyer.) If you domesticate a judgment down, here it's my recollection (you'd need to double check me) that you'd have to use Texas collection procedures.
Your lawyer looks to be suggesting that you go the writ of garnishment route. That is, figure out where they bank and garnish the bank account. The problem is that in order to do this, you have to know where they bank. As soon as you send the subpoena to find out where they bank, the garnishees (the judgment debtors) will be tipped off that you are pursuing them, and they will close their bank accounts. You'll then have to send another subpoena to figure out where their new bank is located. It's kind of a never-ending cat-and-mouse game. The only way I've ever seen this work is when you catch the garnishee unaware.
How big is the judgment? This isn't exactly the cheapest procedure and if you get it wrong, you can be on the hook for their attorney's fees. Unless it's a lot of money at stake, I'd probably let it go.
How big is the judgment? This isn't exactly the cheapest procedure and if you get it wrong, you can be on the hook for their attorney's fees. Unless it's a lot of money at stake, I'd probably let it go.
Thank you for the advice, $3500 is the amount. Letting it go will not be an option for me.
I do have a judgement. From reading, there is an exception:
If you have moved to Texas from another state where a judgment was entered, there is a possibility of garnishment, especially where you transferred and are still working for the same employer.
I found that online. Thoughts?
So, in TX, you guys don't collect judgements essentially? My understanding was TX was business friendly so this shocks me.
Unfortunately, that be something I would have to research. (I really don't know the answer when someone moves from out of state.) Remember, though, you would be in state court in Texas and the general assumption down here is that wages cannot be garnished (except for something like child support). I would take anything I found online with a grain of salt. In my opinion, $3500 would probably not be worth pursuing unless you had a sure way of garnishing wages. (If your lawyer doesn't feel comfortable that's attainable, then I would trust his or her judgment.) Wish I had more information to share.
I appreciate what you've shared. Just shocks me that Texas landlords can't collect back rents essentially.
Even with wage garnishment, some of these lower income earners will just jump from one job to the next to make you try to catch up with their employer.
When wondering what the true law is, I find it best to go directly to the code itself. As I have come to understand it, Texas State Law says you may not request turnover of wages on a judgment until after the debtor has been paid in some form for service (work, basically). It may be affordable to go the more difficult route if you give up the lawyer. You'd be surprised what you can legally accomplish yourself with some research and motivation. I've noticed that judges also favor pro Bono plaintiffs.
Sec. 31.0025. AUTHORITY OF COURT TO ORDER TURNOVER OF WAGES. (a) Notwithstanding any other law, a court may not, at any time before a judgment debtor is paid wages for personal services performed by the debtor, enter or enforce an order that requires the debtor or any other person to turn over the wages for the satisfaction of the judgment.
(b) This section applies to wages in any form, including paycheck, cash, or property.
(c) This section does not apply to the enforcement of a child support obligation or a judgment for past due child support.
Added by Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 671, Sec. 1, eff. Aug. 26, 1991.
View Code Here@Joe Delia Yeah, it was definitely a little surprising to me, too. However, I've come to believe that it's offset quite a bit by very favorable landlord laws that allow us to get our properties back in weeks (not months) in the event of an eviction. I just had an eviction on $1200/month house and backrent was only $1095.
Plus, as @Steve Babiak points out, even with wage garnishment, it's often hard to garnish because they just change jobs.
I've come to believe it's a basic truth that, no matter where you are, it's really, really hard to collect from people without significant assets or income, or at least to justify the time and expense involved. Judgments against low income, low asset individuals are, in my opinion, generally worthless.
I have been a landlord here for 8 years. I rarely seek judgments. The only two forms of recourse I have seen effective for a judgement is to file it on their credit, and for public record. This will affect them the most.
I have been unsuccessful in collecting on any of the judgments we have. You might try one of the settlement services that charges you a percent of the judgment for collecting it. I have not tried one before. Hope this helps some, wish there was a better answer for you.
Plus, as @Steve Babiak points out, even with wage garnishment, it's often hard to garnish because they just change jobs.
I've come to believe it's a basic truth that, no matter where you are, it's really, really hard to collect from people without significant assets or income, or at least to justify the time and expense involved. Judgments against low income, low asset individuals are, in my opinion, generally worthless.
Not in michigan, despite clueless people bashing us we garnish their tax returns.
"I've come to believe it's a basic truth that, no matter where you are, it's really, really hard to collect from people without significant assets or income, or at least to justify the time and expense involved. Judgments against low income, low asset individuals are, in my opinion, generally worthless."
Judgment proof. You have to be careful about throwing good money after bad, and more importantly, spending your time and attention on garbage, rather than on something good and fulfilling.
John, can you attach their tax refunds?
Are you able to seize property in Texas? I know a local court officer who loves seizing vehicles from deadbeats. He told me he once had a judgment against a gas station owner and was going to seize his fuel. He had a tanker truck lined up and another gas station ready to buy at a discount when the owner paid up.
I too am surprised that Texas won't garnish wages. I've heard that some states are more difficult than others. I think that's why OJ Simpson moved to Florida - to protect his assets.
John, can you attach their tax refunds?
Federal tax refunds can't be garnished. State tax refunds can be, but Texas is too cool for a state income tax.
@Jon Klaus completely agree with you. Setting aside the money issue, as you point out, time wasted chasing bad debt detracts from more worthwhile ventures. Plus, I think it makes you focus too much on past wrongs as opposed to future opportunities. Not saying never to chase a bad debt but it really needs to be worth it and not just a knee jerk, angry reaction.
That would be my mentality too if i lived in a state where you can't collect debt. For the rest of the 49 states, it's annoying you can't hold people accountable in a state where they tout themselves as business friendly.
You could always send them a check for some small amount. Then when they deposit it you will have their banking information. Then you can file a writ of execution to be served on that bank.
I have seen some do a shotgun approach and file the writ to be served on banks near where the deadbeat, uh, I mean the poor unfortunate person lives or works. Since they usually bank nearby. All you need is their name and SS#. It can be pricy and you can seek to be reimbursed for the costs but it is a toss up at best.
Once the subpoena is filed, they will close all of their bank accounts and start cashing their employment checks or get them loaded onto a reloadable VISA or MC. Good luck tracking that down.
Joe, a few of us from Texas have tried to help you. Bashing our state isn't helping. I am sorry we don't have the answer you want. I really wish we did because this same situation affects us and our business too.
I don't think he was bashing TX. He is facing the reality just about everyone does after the first time they have won a hard fought victory in court and have that piece of paper called a judgment in their hands. It's official looking and says you are owed a sum of money.
Then, suddenly, reality starts to set in. It is just a piece of paper and unless the person owing the money voluntarily steps up to meet their obligations, the real struggle has only just begun.
Collecting a judgment is hard, sometimes very hard, sometimes impossible. That is one reason why you never sue on principle and why attorneys are picky about the contingency based cases they will take.
I think of "Bashing" as someone speaking about something who doesn't know the facts. That is not my intent at all. Nationally all we hear is "texas is open for business", "texas is business friendly", and then this pops up, i thought it was april 1st.
If being shocked is bashing, i guess i'm guilty. I appreciate yours and others input.
That would be my mentality too if i lived in a state where you can't collect debt. For the rest of the 49 states, it's annoying you can't hold people accountable in a state where they tout themselves as business friendly.
Joe,
I'm jumping in a little late but this statement made me want to respond.
It's not about holding people accountable, it's about smart business decisions. I hold my kids accountable because I want them to grow up and be a certain kind of person. The people you're going after are already grown and holding them accountable, while making you feel better, isn't going to change their ways.
If you had a judgement for say $20,000 and they had assets, then it may make sense from a business standpoint. Treat it as a business decision.
Just my 2 cents, plus interest.
I know that many people have the attitude to just "let it go", but I think that you should go after it, as long as you're not spending too much time or money doing so. Not only can you get the money that is rightfully yours, but you will have a new level of confidence when dealing with the next jerk. Plus, a little bit of revenge is fun once in a while.
I used to let bad debts go because I had a hard time collecting. I have since learned which ways are easy and which are difficult. I tried seizing a vehicle once and was unsucessful. On two occasions, I tried garnishing bank accounts without success. One of my friends garnished a bank account and did succeed. I have had great luck going after state tax refunds. It's an easy process and pays off big time.
Recently, I garnished a former tenant's wages. I had forgotten about him, but for whatever reason, Googled him. His Facebook page listed where he works. What a dummy. So far, I've received seven checks ranging from $100-$170. It's money that I deserve. I also had a great laugh amongst my friends. We joked about this guy thinking he had "stuck it to his landlord", only to find that a portion of his puny paychecks were going to me right before Christmas. You might think It's bad for us to laugh at this guy's misfortune, but he brought it all upon himself.
I hope Joe is successful getting paid from these deadbeats. They know that they owe him the money, and a jufge agreed and signed the paper. I believe that they should be forced to pay.
If all else fails, you could find some bikers in Texas to pay them a visit.
I appreciate the input. The texans are saying "let it go" because that is what they essentially have to do, let it go, they have no option. I really spend no time on this issue other than tell the lawyer which route to go, so i have no time invested. I've never been to court, i leveraged "my guys" to do the move out inspection and change the locks, i literally have almost 0 time invested, and a few hundred bucks to pay the lawyer and court fee's, some of which is apart of that 3500 number. Telling her to spend a few hundred more to tag their bank accounts may or may not be worth it.
I'm thinking I will tag their accounts, if they move banks, then i'll place calls to their superiors at their work places and their current landlord letting them know they're housing people with eviction records and a judgement against them. He's a VET, so in order for him to ever get VA funding, he'll need to make me whole one day.