Pit Bulls, Horses, and Poor People

Residential Real Estate Agent · Cookeville, TN · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 948 votes

There's so much in this business that I just don't understand. On a fairly regular basis I will get a call from someone who needs to rent or they want to buy with owner-financing. And they have no money for the down-payment, a credit score of 403, and they can't afford monthly payments of more than $450 per month. And they have pit bulls or horses. Now I know that horses are expensive to feed and keep, so why not sell the horses so that you can have a little money to house yourself? And the pit bulls - really, I don't think I know of a single person with pit bulls who has their finances in order. I don't think the pit bulls cause a person to have bad finances, but why is there a correlation in the first place?

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Pete T.

Real estate investor · Las Vegas · Member since 2013 · 798 posts · 171 votes

12y

@Duncan Taylor

I dont want to call anyone out in this group of posts, but I'll just say you might be losing some money with those "rules" I guess you could make some leap that someone w/ visible tats could affect...? Not really sure. If they are making a good living and visible tats are not a factor in their workplace, not sure why it matters. Same goes for pits. I understand no dogs for various reasons (hair, fur, wear, accidents, destruction, smells, etc.), but to single out pits just seems ignorant to me. If this is what some people say they base their decisions on, I am nervous about what they are not saying. For me, it makes more sense to base judgements off income, credit, criminal history, judgements, etc. I am not saying some tenants dont raise red flags, just dont get the pit bull and visible tat grouping.

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John Rooster
Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 409 posts · 105 votes
12y
lol, great title! Maybe some day Section 8 will be expanded to include Horses and Pit Bulls.
2 Reply
Aaron Mazzrillo
Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
12y
I have a friend who sells mobile homes on land via seller financing in Texas. He says as soon as he sees a horse show up, he knows he's getting back that property!
1 Reply
Pat L.
Rental Property Investor · Upstate, NY · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
12y
We have a rural neighbor that rents his Bobcat out to us even though he is on SSD.

they are always crying poor...... yet they have 19 dogs!!! 10 are Pits & if you ever go inside their 'Barn of a home' you would literally gag from the smell.

They also have two 20 something tattooed, body pierced unemployed kids still living in the basement. It must be a cult :)

0 Reply
Kassandra T.
Real Estate Professional · Anchorage Area & Vancouver WA · Member since 2010 · 72 posts · 37 votes
12y
I think this goes back to what your grandma's always said. "Like minds hang out together". So the coloration is that people of certain class or working groups have a tendency of being similar.....thus you find trends among their decisions....so you end up avoiding them.
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Jon Klaus
Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
Originally posted by @Kassandra T.:
I think this goes back to what your grandma's always said. "Like minds hang out together". So the coloration is that people of certain class or working groups have a tendency of being similar.....thus you find trends among their decisions....so you end up avoiding them.

All those people at BiggerPockets are obsessed with ROI, Cap rates, IRR, NOI, net worth, tax efficiency, AND they hate pits.
3 Reply
Cory BinsfieldPro Member
Financial Advisor · Duluth, MN · Member since 2012 · 156 posts · 194 votes
12y
As a landlord who has rented to Pitt Bull owners, I have a simple rule. Never rent to a Pitt Bull owners. 10% of the owners are awesome. I just can't figure out how to weed out the other 90%.
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Account Closed
Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
12y
And we're not supposed to profile because it's politically incorrect. Sometimes I'm not sure if our politicians are naive or ignorant, or ...... you fill in the blank.

Sigh................
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Mary B.
Real Estate Investor · Lansdowne, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 656 votes
12y
Lots of people care for animals way more than they do people. However some of those people can't afford those animals and know they can't but still they keep them and even get more animals. My guess is the residence can't be that sanitary if they have dogs and horses yet can't afford to pay more than $450/mo...

Kudos,

Mary
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Duncan Taylor
Real Estate Investor · Member since 2013 · 866 posts · 487 votes
12y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
And we're not supposed to profile because it's politically incorrect.

You HAVE to profile, you just can't discriminate.

One rule I have always insisted on is if the tats are visible, they are not going to be approved. I can't refuse to take the application, but I can refuse to run the credit or even consider them. Just returned the checks uncashed saying a qualified tenant was found before processing their application. There is nothing requiring the applications to be processed in the order received.
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Bill S.Pro Member
Moderator
Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
12y
@Account Closed we are not profiling (cops are/were the ones profiling). We don't pull over people with pits and tell them we won't rent to them :). We can and do discriminate LEGALLY (against non-protected classes like poor credit, history of evictions, and etc). Fortunately we don't, yet, have to assume everyone is qualified unlike the police who must assume everyone is innocent (which comes from the Bill of Rights).

@Bryan L. I have been told the book "A Framework For Understanding Poverty" by Ruby Payne, explains these things if you are questioning and want to understand.
2 Reply
Jon Klaus
Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
You can discriminate, should discriminate, just not illegally.
4 Reply
Duncan Taylor
Real Estate Investor · Member since 2013 · 866 posts · 487 votes
12y
Originally posted by @Jon Klaus:
You can discriminate, should discriminate, just not illegally.

Excellent distinction!
0 Reply
Pete T.
Real estate investor · Las Vegas · Member since 2013 · 798 posts · 171 votes
12y
@Duncan Taylor

I dont want to call anyone out in this group of posts, but I'll just say you might be losing some money with those "rules" I guess you could make some leap that someone w/ visible tats could affect...? Not really sure. If they are making a good living and visible tats are not a factor in their workplace, not sure why it matters. Same goes for pits. I understand no dogs for various reasons (hair, fur, wear, accidents, destruction, smells, etc.), but to single out pits just seems ignorant to me. If this is what some people say they base their decisions on, I am nervous about what they are not saying. For me, it makes more sense to base judgements off income, credit, criminal history, judgements, etc. I am not saying some tenants dont raise red flags, just dont get the pit bull and visible tat grouping.
5 Reply
Account Closed
Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes
12y
Pete,

Pit bull considered a very dangerous dog just ask the people that have been attached by them and ask your local police about pit bull dogs. Let's say you rent to someone that have a pit bull, and you know they have one a lawyer will have a field day with you in court if the dog attach someone. I thought only drug dealers have pit bull, and a normal citizen doesn't need a pit bull.

Joe Gore
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Jon Klaus
Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
Pete, my insurance carrier has singled out pit bulls, along with other dangerous breeds.
1 Reply
Pat L.
Rental Property Investor · Upstate, NY · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
12y
For us

pit bulls = cancelled insurance no exceptions !!
2 Reply
Duncan Taylor
Real Estate Investor · Member since 2013 · 866 posts · 487 votes
12y
Originally posted by @Pete T.:
@Duncan Taylor

I dont want to call anyone out in this group of posts, but I'll just say you might be losing some money with those "rules" I guess you could make some leap that someone w/ visible tats could affect...? Not really sure. If they are making a good living and visible tats are not a factor in their workplace, not sure why it matters. Same goes for pits. I understand no dogs for various reasons (hair, fur, wear, accidents, destruction, smells, etc.), but to single out pits just seems ignorant to me. If this is what some people say they base their decisions on, I am nervous about what they are not saying. For me, it makes more sense to base judgements off income, credit, criminal history, judgements, etc. I am not saying some tenants dont raise red flags, just dont get the pit bull and visible tat grouping.

I don't mind being called out. I'm old, but certainly not too old to be corrected when appropriate.

Let me explain on the tats and by extension the pit bulls.

It is an indicator of judgement. Having visible tats is an indication of going contrary to herd. Now, going against the herd is often a very good thing. But, visible tats are equivalent to a big sign over them saying, "I don't give a crap about the social or business norms, if you don't like who I am you can go f' yourself." An attitude like that does tend to limit ones income generation ability because like it or not, employers are looking for conformity when hiring someone to represent their company. Yes, even the person manning the drive-thru at the local fast food joint is representing that company.

So, for me, it was simply an indicator of their inability to use good judgement.
3 Reply
Joel OwensBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
12y
As mentioned pit bulls are considered an aggressive breed by insurance companies.

They can cancel the whole policy and will not cover your claim as an exception to the policy. In addition they also add liability. A pit gets out and bites a child or attacks someone. If you allow that dog to stay there as said the lawyer will eat you up.

You can take a much larger deposit to cover for pit damage but again it's not just the damage it's the liability. Tenants will say they will get insurance coverage and then drop it after the first payment and not tell you.

I have been through this many times. The dogs instill fear in other tenants in an apartment building versus other smaller dogs. One tenant I know had a daycare at her place and a tenant moved in at the apartments and was not supposed to have a pit. That tenant had to be evicted immediately as it was against policy.

Nothing against the dog but for investments property owners do not need them there.
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Ryan Watson
New to Real Estate · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 170 posts · 23 votes
12y
This is a good thread. I do have to say people are mostly right. Ive been around a few losers in bad neighborhoods through friends, and they do have financial problems. House smells like dog ****, and the food stamp card is on the coffe table next to a pile of roaches and a sack of weed. Amung about 50 fountain pop cups that they burn 4.00 a gallon gas to go fill up at the gas station.

As far as singling out the breeds? Its all in how you raise them. Personally ive run into more mean German Shepards and chows, and have yet to meet a mean pitbull.
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Jon Klaus
Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
German Shepherds and Chows are on the dangerous breeds list, however pit bulls attack and cause injury more than any other breed in the US.
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Zac P.
Rental Property Investor · Lexington, KY · Member since 2012 · 115 posts · 64 votes
12y
It seems like all of our tenants that have had Pitbulls are the same people that aren't paying rent, trashing the property or raising hell on the property. I don't understand why there is a correlation there, but it's there. I have been attacked by a tenant's (unauthorized) Pitbull. I'm a Dog lover, but personally, I don't like the aggressive breed.
0 Reply
Jon Klaus
Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
Top 10 dangerous breeds

There is a lot of liability with horses, too. I've leased to horse tenants without mishap, but they were responsible and insured.
0 Reply
Pete T.
Real estate investor · Las Vegas · Member since 2013 · 798 posts · 171 votes
12y
@Jon Klaus l get the insurance portion or liability, that makes sense. However, there are a lot of statistics that are contradict your stance on the breed. Even the link you provided "has pit bull type" included. While I would agree those dogs can inflict more damage than most other breeds, the issue is the reputation, what is considered a pit bull (largest breed group, lots of mixed and not related breeds lumped in), and what is reported. To me, the classification of "aggressive breeds" is as simple as classifying people by race. I can only speak to my experience and research and have found small dogs to be much more aggressive than other dogs. But I wouldnt ban anyone w/ Jack Russell just bc I got bit by one.

Sorry for the novel- but thanks for clearing up the pit bull part.
1 Reply
Stephen S.
Wholesaler · Holiday, FL · Member since 2013 · 571 posts · 221 votes
12y
A tenant's pit bull bit me a few months ago. It had barked snarled and backed up away from me routinely for weeks. Then one day I was going out the front door and then suddenly the hand that wasn't on the knob got a little scrambled.

The tenants later said: "She never bit anybody else - you must have cornered her".
1 Reply
Jon Klaus
Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
Check out fatalities over the past 10 years or so

Yeah, there are various breeds that get lumped in under Pit Bull, and prospective tenants learn to use the less used terms like Am Staffordshire Terrier. Landlords need to learn the breeds if they take dogs.
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