Top Markets to invest in for the next few Decades?
Most Popular Reply
Joe VilleneuvePro Member
Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votesFirst, can you explain to me what the heck you're mumbling about in the first 4 lines of this post?
Second, if you're a smart REI, you're not choosing between CF and appreciation. You're looking for both.
Third, what makes you think the mid west down't have appreciation?
50 Replies
- 4yJoe VilleneuvePro MemberPlymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
First, can you explain to me what the heck you're mumbling about in the first 4 lines of this post?
Second, if you're a smart REI, you're not choosing between CF and appreciation. You're looking for both.
Third, what makes you think the mid west down't have appreciation?
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes4y
Quote from @Susan O.:
Look for cities with a population of 50,000 - 100,000 and strong job prospects, low tax rates, good school systems, and generally conservative values.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews - Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2021 · 9k+ posts · 5k+ votes4y
Austin Texas. Don't look past us
- Real Estate Broker · Austin, TX · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes4y
I second @Eliott Elias Austin Texas metro. If you haven't been here then you should come check it out and eat some of the best bbq ever. Austin metro has been growing since the 1950's. That is one heck of a track record
- Real Estate Agent · Austin, TX · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 941 votes4y
Quote from @Susan O.:
I was wondering what you all think are some good solid markets:
Rising Populations - Migration expected to increaseSolid strong economy. With different industries
Jobs Jobs JOBS long term
Good weather long term - despite global warming, temperate climates - I know CA is the only place with really good mediteranian weather, but I live here so wanted to buy oos.
I was thinking Texas, Florida, West etc. Sun belt areas. Which specific cities look good for both GROWTH and some CASH FLOW or opportunities long term?
What do you all think about high cashflow (lower appreciation areas) like the mid west, MN, Upstate NY etc?I plan to be expanding more into new markets. Mainly multifamily but could consider other ways too
Austin or if you want more cash flow you can go for one of the booming suburbs.
It's important to look at the job trend aspect, but at the same time, remote-working is increasingly becoming a norm for much good-paying technology and finance sector.
In terms of climate, I've lived in Midwest (Michigan, Minnesota, and Wisconsin) for the past 15 years, the winter seems to be getting better...- 4yWale LawalBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · Houston | Dallas | Austin, TX · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
I recommend you consider Houston, TX!
I personally have rentals here in Houston, the cash-on-cash return and appreciation are steady.
You should select a market that will meet your investment goals.A local Investor-Agent can help shorten your learning curve and save you a lot of headaches as they tend to understand the market better.
Good Luck!
NETWORTH BUILDERS5236 Reviews - Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes4y
Lol, CA "only" place with "good" weather, I find that hilarious.
I would not call annual smoke drenched sky's "good" weather, nor ignore the fact of wondering where majority of state is going to get water from.
There is a reason the mid-west is known as "good ole reliable".
Smart $ is on MN.
Water, we have 0 problems, and are now looking at becoming the "middle east" of water, reaping benefits of potential export economy from such. Major natural resource exporter, not only as world leader for taconite mining but also now gold and additional. Major farming economy, bio-medical, aerospace engineering, healthcare, finance and the list goes on and on. Currently #3 economy in mid-west with projections to over-take Chicago in a rather near term. With multiple international trade routes via land, rail and sea. One of the top tourism economies. The list goes on and on.
Diversification is the key to a strong economy, and MN has it on level hard to find or beat anywhere in N.America, with so many different sectors and strength of positioning in so many.
I don't know how anyone could call 20%+ appreciation rate "low", I would be interested in seeing where your plucking your notion from as to a low appreciation rate in MN.
And remember, not everyone likes seasons of just summer and scorching summer, many and I mean many MANY millions like this thing called "moderate climate" with things such as fall, spring and yes, even winter. Snow spots are huge. As for MN winters, yes it gets very cold, for about 8-12 weeks. How many weeks is the heat and humidity so oppressive it's like breathing through a straw in Houston?
CA seems to get this notion that it's the center of the universe and defines what all like. It's simply not so.
- 4yJeff SchemmelBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Saint Paul, MN · Member since 2014 · 384 posts · 401 votes
@Meng Chen winter getting better?! Man, I feel it in my bones when it gets cold but that doesn't stop me from loving this place! I'm investing here for life.
- Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes4y
@Meng Chen is right, the last few winters have lost their bite. Ask any snowmobiler around here, they will express their frustration with the lack of opportunity to ride more than just a few weekends. I understand what Jeff says too, because winter is still not enjoyable, just the reduction in daylight alone.
BUT: the cooler season really adds to productivity and economic output. I have seen it for many years working in corporate, the difference is very noticeable. And you can see it when you travel south how everything gets slower. And it's very easy to dress for cool or cold weather and be comfortable. You can't adjust for heat with clothing beyond a certain point, you just have to stay inside air conditioned spaces.
The Midwest has quietly grown out of it's rust belt economy and became very diverse, just nobody has taken notice. I can specifically speak about Milwaukee and the changes we have seen here in the last 10 years are stunning and the economic momentum keeps increasing. Cost of living is moderate, fresh water abundant, weather is business friendly (not pool friendly most of the year) and it is considered climate resilient. No droughts, wild fires, hurricanes or other extreme weather.
I think Austin might be at close to it's peak, even though they are still building like crazy, I think 25,000 single family homes alone this year. In terms of percentage increase potential for the next one or two decades I think you'll probably find more upside in the Midwest than in the markets that have been booming over the last ten years.
- 4yRyan KellyBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · Austin, TX · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
@Susan O. honestly, that's an impossible question to answer because it will be different for each investor. I don't think there are any "secret" strong-growth markets that investors have yet to discover. Lifestyle, work from home, and large job and population growth will drive the ship for the next decade at least, so keep following where people are moving for those choices. I'm local in Austin and prefer my core investments be in this market. We have other investments in more secondary markets that are geared for cash flow with slower but steady appreciation. It doesn't matter what others say. Ask yourself, "do YOU want to own property in that market and build a portfolio there?"
Ryan Kelly Group - Keller Williams5112 Reviews - 4yPatrick DruryBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Columbus, OH & Cleveland OH · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
@Susan O.
I would recommend looking in the Midwest. Columbus OH is a great place to start looking in the Midwest. It's a nice balance of cash flow and appreciation. Also, it has lots of job opportunities and population growth. - 4yRemington LymanBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
Quote from @Susan O.:
I was wondering what you all think are some good solid markets:
Rising Populations - Migration expected to increaseSolid strong economy. With different industries
Jobs Jobs JOBS long term
Good weather long term - despite global warming, temperate climates - I know CA is the only place with really good mediteranian weather, but I live here so wanted to buy oos.
I was thinking Texas, Florida, West etc. Sun belt areas. Which specific cities look good for both GROWTH and some CASH FLOW or opportunities long term?
What do you all think about high cashflow (lower appreciation areas) like the mid west, MN, Upstate NY etc?I plan to be expanding more into new markets. Mainly multifamily but could consider other ways too
It does not matter where you start as long as you develop your Core 4. The core 4 is David Greene’s long-distance investing strategy and consists of a realtor, contractor, property manager, and lender. Once you have this team in place, you should be able to invest in any market confidently.
As for picking a specific market - I would go after one with an increasing job and population growth. I invest and work in Columbus, Ohio. I am also looking to invest in Cincinnati and Cleveland. - Real Estate Agent · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2017 · 814 posts · 466 votes4y
WHAT?
All these things you mentioned will likely change in less than a decade! Who knows!
Focus on the NOW and adjust on the "NEXT" as things change. You can't be successful if you are thinking 20 years ahead and speculate as such on a Real Estate Market, not to mention wait that long. It just doesn't make sense to me.
- Real Estate Agent · Member since 2019 · 569 posts · 257 votes4y
I like the panhandle of Florida (Navarre to Panama City beach) due to the current gentrification and future. We have a strong STR market built on tourism nearby many feeder markets. We are starting to accommodate to those buyer pools and levels of affluence. In addition, there is proposed and pass budgets for the counties commercial and residential infrastructure.
You can't go wrong with a plethora of military bases, beautiful beaches, gentrification and preferred tax law state like Florida!
- Real Estate Agent · Santa Rosa Beach · Member since 2022 · 14 posts · 10 votes4y
The Florida panhandle (Pensacola to Panama City) can be a great place to look into. Our markets aren't as saturated with investors as bigger cities like Tampa, Miami, or Orlando. We have a strong military presence (from having four military bases and multiple schools located within the 100 mile stretch of the coast) and a strong population that comes for vacation. With the large military population and all of them receiving a basic allowance for housing (BAH), it is guaranteed renters with new families coming in every few months/rotating out every 3-5 years. Their BAH essentially creates a government backed/ guaranteed rent check every month that is set according to local rents (kind of like having HUD tenants).
- Real Estate Agent · St. Petersburg/Tampa · Member since 2021 · 57 posts · 21 votes4y
Pensacola to panama city hands down
Follow jobs, schools, railroad, and new highways on a local level.
Memphis is declining in population but,
Ford announced a development just east of Memphis with 30000 jobs affiliated and a second 3600 acre supersite is announcing soon in North Miss. near Memphis with 20000 plus more jobs. The N. Miss. jobs followed a intermodal with rail that already has brought in Volvo, Amazon, Kellogs, Post cereal, Michelin tire (TBC), Milwaukee tool, Nike, McCormick spices, and six more in process. Diverse companies that will endure a recession.
Arlington is a community east of Memphis that will be a great rental or flip area with a great school, but sellers have priced for that.
New subdivisions going in around industry mentioned above in North Miss. in small communities there. 1-269 from Mexico to Canada through it and workers can live a bit further with that type commute.
Personally we land bank ahead of those trends, but most investor sales here are cash flow rentals.
There will be a local area or micro area near you that is doing a similar short and long term growth job growth, etc.Quote from @Remington Lyman:
Quote from @Susan O.:
I was wondering what you all think are some good solid markets:
Rising Populations - Migration expected to increaseSolid strong economy. With different industries
Jobs Jobs JOBS long term
Good weather long term - despite global warming, temperate climates - I know CA is the only place with really good mediteranian weather, but I live here so wanted to buy oos.
I was thinking Texas, Florida, West etc. Sun belt areas. Which specific cities look good for both GROWTH and some CASH FLOW or opportunities long term?
What do you all think about high cashflow (lower appreciation areas) like the mid west, MN, Upstate NY etc?I plan to be expanding more into new markets. Mainly multifamily but could consider other ways too
It does not matter where you start as long as you develop your Core 4. The core 4 is David Greene’s long-distance investing strategy and consists of a realtor, contractor, property manager, and lender. Once you have this team in place, you should be able to invest in any market confidently.
As for picking a specific market - I would go after one with an increasing job and population growth. I invest and work in Columbus, Ohio. I am also looking to invest in Cincinnati and Cleveland.Isn't the midwest like Ohio declining populations? I thought most of the Rust belt is lowering population and lowering job growth for many decades and will continue?
They're decent for cash flow but appreciation is low because of the aging and decling populations. Baby boomers moving to sunnier weather and younger people moving to Sun belt- NV TX FL GA SC CO ect
Quote from @De Rasche:
Follow jobs, schools, railroad, and new highways on a local level.
Memphis is declining in population but,
Ford announced a development just east of Memphis with 30000 jobs affiliated and a second 3600 acre supersite is announcing soon in North Miss. near Memphis with 20000 plus more jobs. The N. Miss. jobs followed a intermodal with rail that already has brought in Volvo, Amazon, Kellogs, Post cereal, Michelin tire (TBC), Milwaukee tool, Nike, McCormick spices, and six more in process. Diverse companies that will endure a recession.
Arlington is a community east of Memphis that will be a great rental or flip area with a great school, but sellers have priced for that.
New subdivisions going in around industry mentioned above in North Miss. in small communities there. 1-269 from Mexico to Canada through it and workers can live a bit further with that type commute.
Personally we land bank ahead of those trends, but most investor sales here are cash flow rentals.
There will be a local area or micro area near you that is doing a similar short and long term growth job growth, etc.I had read that Memphis is in the top high crime areas in the US though. I was sort of interested in Nashville though which has better crime rate? I think that's why people are moving away from Memphis? Or is that changing?
- Arent'y these smalller markets more risk in a heavy recession? Wouldn't there be a flight to safety in a downturn. A flight to larger more developed economies? I have heard good things about FL panhandle though.
Quote from @Clayton Mitchell:
The Florida panhandle (Pensacola to Panama City) can be a great place to look into. Our markets aren't as saturated with investors as bigger cities like Tampa, Miami, or Orlando. We have a strong military presence (from having four military bases and multiple schools located within the 100 mile stretch of the coast) and a strong population that comes for vacation. With the large military population and all of them receiving a basic allowance for housing (BAH), it is guaranteed renters with new families coming in every few months/rotating out every 3-5 years. Their BAH essentially creates a government backed/ guaranteed rent check every month that is set according to local rents (kind of like having HUD tenants).
Quote from @Josue Vargas:
WHAT?
All these things you mentioned will likely change in less than a decade! Who knows!
Focus on the NOW and adjust on the "NEXT" as things change. You can't be successful if you are thinking 20 years ahead and speculate as such on a Real Estate Market, not to mention wait that long. It just doesn't make sense to me.
Hi Maybe because I am a long term investor investing since 18 in real estate and I always thought long term So now I have 200+ units but I could have had more if I planned even further out. I already have a lot of units in several states, just looking for the next market
I still buy every year, but like to plan future and educate my guesses
Right now we have record inflation for 40 years. And an economy that is likely going to be bled by the FEDs quantitative tightening. Unfortunately economic expansion will likely be slow for a few years. But I still need to buy, have a few 1031s lined up
Quote from @Joe Villeneuve:
First, can you explain to me what the heck you're mumbling about in the first 4 lines of this post?
Second, if you're a smart REI, you're not choosing between CF and appreciation. You're looking for both.
Third, what makes you think the mid west down't have appreciation?
obviously, not sure why you have to insult people though.. my guess is because you're from MI and the word low appreciation triggered you. I'm just speaking based on data
this is a forum we're supposed to help one another. obv speaking in generalities as to mid west. If you'd like you can defend declining rust belt
- Real Estate Agent · Santa Rosa Beach · Member since 2022 · 14 posts · 10 votes4y
Quote from @Susan O.:
Arent'y these smalller markets more risk in a heavy recession? Wouldn't there be a flight to safety in a downturn. A flight to larger more developed economies? I have heard good things about FL panhandle though.Quote from @Clayton Mitchell:
The Florida panhandle (Pensacola to Panama City) can be a great place to look into. Our markets aren't as saturated with investors as bigger cities like Tampa, Miami, or Orlando. We have a strong military presence (from having four military bases and multiple schools located within the 100 mile stretch of the coast) and a strong population that comes for vacation. With the large military population and all of them receiving a basic allowance for housing (BAH), it is guaranteed renters with new families coming in every few months/rotating out every 3-5 years. Their BAH essentially creates a government backed/ guaranteed rent check every month that is set according to local rents (kind of like having HUD tenants).
Possibly, but with the reliability of the military bases it can be somewhat offset. The military's BAH/salary is somewhat guaranteed even through recessions. Plus with high vacation traffic/rising rental prices in Destin and surrounding areas people that work in the tourism industry are having to find other places to live, driving demand to the smaller local markets (Fort Walton Beach, Navarre, Freeport, Defuniak Springs, etc. ) in order to find more affordable housing. David Greene just closed on a multifamily complex in FWB a few months ago. The military BAH was just increased 20% at the beginning of this year to keep up with inflation, which is driving rental rates to increase by the same amount.
Here is an article by CBRE on rising industrial market growth, it goes into some population, job, and thus rental growth
https://www.cbre.com/insights/...
Here is the population growth numbers per county in Florida. The counties that make up the Emerald Coast ranked 8th, 12th, 52nd, and 63rd, out of the 67 counties listed.
http://www.usa.com/rank/florid...
You could also look into Central Florida which has also seen massive population growth over the past year.
- 4yJoshua JanusBusiness MemberRealtor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Quote from @Susan O.:
I was wondering what you all think are some good solid markets:
Rising Populations - Migration expected to increaseSolid strong economy. With different industries
Jobs Jobs JOBS long term
Good weather long term - despite global warming, temperate climates - I know CA is the only place with really good mediteranian weather, but I live here so wanted to buy oos.
I was thinking Texas, Florida, West etc. Sun belt areas. Which specific cities look good for both GROWTH and some CASH FLOW or opportunities long term?
What do you all think about high cashflow (lower appreciation areas) like the mid west, MN, Upstate NY etc?I plan to be expanding more into new markets. Mainly multifamily but could consider other ways too
Columbus, Ohio is a great market to invest in. The population has been growing here year over year over the last decade, it is home to The Ohio State University which has over 50,000 students that live here along with those that visit, and it also holds a diverse range of young professionals and traveling nurses to fill the demand of the multiple business corporations and hospitals stationed here. The appreciation rate in Columbus has been 8% higher than the national average over the last year. Tech companies are continuously moving here and establishing a footprint in Columbus as well. Intel is a great example, who is building the largest chip manufacturing plant in the US right here, and it will be a $20 billion dollar investment that brings a few new thousand jobs.
Another example of economic growth is the upcoming Ohio State University Wexner Medical Center Inpatient Hospital which is a 1.9million square foot hospital that will bring over 800 new beds and a thousand new jobs.
https://abc6onyourside.com/news/local/new-osu-hospital-expected-to-transform-health-care
Here are a few more recent investments
https://news.wosu.org/news/2022-02-08/rumpke-to-build-50-million-recycling-facility-in-columbus
Check out The Complete Guide to the Columbus, Ohio Real Estate Market which goes through the Columbus, Ohio market in depth and will give you a better scope of where the highest levels of growth are taking place and where to look to invest.
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