Stressed that noisy neighbors will ruin my investment

Stressed that noisy neighbors will ruin my investment

New to Real Estate · Denver, CO · Member since 2021 · 1 post · 0 votes

My wife and I purchased our first property last August in a suburb of Denver. I am active duty military stationed here for 2 years (2021-23). We were able to buy a single family house using the VA loan, and planned to fix it up (nothing crazy) while living in it for the 2 years we were here, then use it as a rental property. The decision to buy this house, as well as the research that went into it, was made with this vision in mind. Everything has been going smoothly, except for one thing… our next-door neighbors.

Overall, we have a pretty good relationship with our neighbors. They are generally respectful, except that they have frequent religious/spiritual ceremonies outside, and at night. They are Native American, and these ceremonies often include drumming and singing. We have no problem with them exercising their religious freedom; we just have a problem with when they do it. Generally, they drum and sing twice a week and it ends around 10:30-11:30 PM. Recently, it has been going much later. On two occasions, they even went until sunrise. As our bedrooms face our neighbor’s backyard, these activities frequently affect our ability to sleep. Our neighbors do other things, including parking cars on sidewalk and in yard, big fires, unpermitted structures in back yard, etc., that other people may care about, but honestly, we just care about the noise at night.

Obviously, the first thing I did was talk to them. Our conversations have been respectful on both sides, but ultimately, yielded no solution. They believe that they have the right to do what they do because of their heritage and right to religious freedom, and I believe that they have those rights, just not the right to do it at all hours of the night.

There is no HOA, or even a noise ordinance in our city. Other neighbors have been calling the police on them for years, but the cops do not really do anything. It is so bad that at least two houses on the block have been sold solely because of this problem (i.e., the owners could not deal with it any longer). In fact, one of those houses was the one we bought, which leads to my first question.

  • 1) Were the sellers legally required to disclose this nuisance to us (the buyers)? And would we have to disclose, if we decided to sell? I have read conflicting information online, and my real estate agent believes that they were not required to, nor that we would be required to in the future. We bought (and would sell) "as is," if that helps.
  • 2) Does anyone have any ideas for a solution, assuming that the issue cannot be solved with conversation between neighbors? I have considered, but not yet employed, the following ideas: sound proofing (window inserts, noise reduction curtains, etc.), bringing this to the attention of city council in hopes of a noise ordinance with consequences, and civil action, which would be my last resort.

Regardless of the legality of disclosing this information or not to a potential buyer or tenant, my wife and I do not want to put others in the situation we are in now. I am not willing to lose everything over my conscience, but I am willing to let the ROI take a hit by adhering to my principles. If we did disclose this nuisance…

  • 3) How much harder would it be for us to get a good tenant in the house?
  • 4) How much harder would it be for us to sell the house?

We are extremely stressed about this. We have even gone so far as starting to consider cutting our losses (or minimizing our gains), by listing the house for sale immediately and finding a place to rent. The uncertainty of the market is an added stressor, but is not driving the decision. Any help would be appreciated. This is a tough lesson to learn. We all know location is the most important aspect of any real estate investment, but I did not consider that this problem was in the realm of possibilities. Besides this issue, the location and house in general is everything we had hoped and planned for.

If this is not the appropriate forum, please let me know.

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John UnderwoodPro Member
Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Noah Harper:

My wife and I purchased our first property last August in a suburb of Denver. I am active duty military stationed here for 2 years (2021-23). We were able to buy a single family house using the VA loan, and planned to fix it up (nothing crazy) while living in it for the 2 years we were here, then use it as a rental property. The decision to buy this house, as well as the research that went into it, was made with this vision in mind. Everything has been going smoothly, except for one thing… our next-door neighbors.

Overall, we have a pretty good relationship with our neighbors. They are generally respectful, except that they have frequent religious/spiritual ceremonies outside, and at night. They are Native American, and these ceremonies often include drumming and singing. We have no problem with them exercising their religious freedom; we just have a problem with when they do it. Generally, they drum and sing twice a week and it ends around 10:30-11:30 PM. Recently, it has been going much later. On two occasions, they even went until sunrise. As our bedrooms face our neighbor’s backyard, these activities frequently affect our ability to sleep. Our neighbors do other things, including parking cars on sidewalk and in yard, big fires, unpermitted structures in back yard, etc., that other people may care about, but honestly, we just care about the noise at night.

Obviously, the first thing I did was talk to them. Our conversations have been respectful on both sides, but ultimately, yielded no solution. They believe that they have the right to do what they do because of their heritage and right to religious freedom, and I believe that they have those rights, just not the right to do it at all hours of the night.

There is no HOA, or even a noise ordinance in our city. Other neighbors have been calling the police on them for years, but the cops do not really do anything. It is so bad that at least two houses on the block have been sold solely because of this problem (i.e., the owners could not deal with it any longer). In fact, one of those houses was the one we bought, which leads to my first question.

  • 1) Were the sellers legally required to disclose this nuisance to us (the buyers)? And would we have to disclose, if we decided to sell? I have read conflicting information online, and my real estate agent believes that they were not required to, nor that we would be required to in the future. We bought (and would sell) "as is," if that helps.
  • 2) Does anyone have any ideas for a solution, assuming that the issue cannot be solved with conversation between neighbors? I have considered, but not yet employed, the following ideas: sound proofing (window inserts, noise reduction curtains, etc.), bringing this to the attention of city council in hopes of a noise ordinance with consequences, and civil action, which would be my last resort.

Regardless of the legality of disclosing this information or not to a potential buyer or tenant, my wife and I do not want to put others in the situation we are in now. I am not willing to lose everything over my conscience, but I am willing to let the ROI take a hit by adhering to my principles. If we did disclose this nuisance…

  • 3) How much harder would it be for us to get a good tenant in the house?
  • 4) How much harder would it be for us to sell the house?

We are extremely stressed about this. We have even gone so far as starting to consider cutting our losses (or minimizing our gains), by listing the house for sale immediately and finding a place to rent. The uncertainty of the market is an added stressor, but is not driving the decision. Any help would be appreciated. This is a tough lesson to learn. We all know location is the most important aspect of any real estate investment, but I did not consider that this problem was in the realm of possibilities. Besides this issue, the location and house in general is everything we had hoped and planned for.

If this is not the appropriate forum, please let me know.


 I don't know that the neighbors fall into a disclosure category.

I'd keep calling the police and talking to city council about a noise ordinance.

Maybe after they are up all night making noise you should do the same the next day when they are trying to sleep and see how they like it.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Noah Harper:

    My wife and I purchased our first property last August in a suburb of Denver. I am active duty military stationed here for 2 years (2021-23). We were able to buy a single family house using the VA loan, and planned to fix it up (nothing crazy) while living in it for the 2 years we were here, then use it as a rental property. The decision to buy this house, as well as the research that went into it, was made with this vision in mind. Everything has been going smoothly, except for one thing… our next-door neighbors.

    Overall, we have a pretty good relationship with our neighbors. They are generally respectful, except that they have frequent religious/spiritual ceremonies outside, and at night. They are Native American, and these ceremonies often include drumming and singing. We have no problem with them exercising their religious freedom; we just have a problem with when they do it. Generally, they drum and sing twice a week and it ends around 10:30-11:30 PM. Recently, it has been going much later. On two occasions, they even went until sunrise. As our bedrooms face our neighbor’s backyard, these activities frequently affect our ability to sleep. Our neighbors do other things, including parking cars on sidewalk and in yard, big fires, unpermitted structures in back yard, etc., that other people may care about, but honestly, we just care about the noise at night.

    Obviously, the first thing I did was talk to them. Our conversations have been respectful on both sides, but ultimately, yielded no solution. They believe that they have the right to do what they do because of their heritage and right to religious freedom, and I believe that they have those rights, just not the right to do it at all hours of the night.

    There is no HOA, or even a noise ordinance in our city. Other neighbors have been calling the police on them for years, but the cops do not really do anything. It is so bad that at least two houses on the block have been sold solely because of this problem (i.e., the owners could not deal with it any longer). In fact, one of those houses was the one we bought, which leads to my first question.

    • 1) Were the sellers legally required to disclose this nuisance to us (the buyers)? And would we have to disclose, if we decided to sell? I have read conflicting information online, and my real estate agent believes that they were not required to, nor that we would be required to in the future. We bought (and would sell) "as is," if that helps.
    • 2) Does anyone have any ideas for a solution, assuming that the issue cannot be solved with conversation between neighbors? I have considered, but not yet employed, the following ideas: sound proofing (window inserts, noise reduction curtains, etc.), bringing this to the attention of city council in hopes of a noise ordinance with consequences, and civil action, which would be my last resort.

    Regardless of the legality of disclosing this information or not to a potential buyer or tenant, my wife and I do not want to put others in the situation we are in now. I am not willing to lose everything over my conscience, but I am willing to let the ROI take a hit by adhering to my principles. If we did disclose this nuisance…

    • 3) How much harder would it be for us to get a good tenant in the house?
    • 4) How much harder would it be for us to sell the house?

    We are extremely stressed about this. We have even gone so far as starting to consider cutting our losses (or minimizing our gains), by listing the house for sale immediately and finding a place to rent. The uncertainty of the market is an added stressor, but is not driving the decision. Any help would be appreciated. This is a tough lesson to learn. We all know location is the most important aspect of any real estate investment, but I did not consider that this problem was in the realm of possibilities. Besides this issue, the location and house in general is everything we had hoped and planned for.

    If this is not the appropriate forum, please let me know.


     I don't know that the neighbors fall into a disclosure category.

    I'd keep calling the police and talking to city council about a noise ordinance.

    Maybe after they are up all night making noise you should do the same the next day when they are trying to sleep and see how they like it.

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Noah Harper:

    My wife and I purchased our first property last August in a suburb of Denver. I am active duty military stationed here for 2 years (2021-23). We were able to buy a single family house using the VA loan, and planned to fix it up (nothing crazy) while living in it for the 2 years we were here, then use it as a rental property. The decision to buy this house, as well as the research that went into it, was made with this vision in mind. Everything has been going smoothly, except for one thing… our next-door neighbors.

    Overall, we have a pretty good relationship with our neighbors. They are generally respectful, except that they have frequent religious/spiritual ceremonies outside, and at night. They are Native American, and these ceremonies often include drumming and singing. We have no problem with them exercising their religious freedom; we just have a problem with when they do it. Generally, they drum and sing twice a week and it ends around 10:30-11:30 PM. Recently, it has been going much later. On two occasions, they even went until sunrise. As our bedrooms face our neighbor’s backyard, these activities frequently affect our ability to sleep. Our neighbors do other things, including parking cars on sidewalk and in yard, big fires, unpermitted structures in back yard, etc., that other people may care about, but honestly, we just care about the noise at night.

    Obviously, the first thing I did was talk to them. Our conversations have been respectful on both sides, but ultimately, yielded no solution. They believe that they have the right to do what they do because of their heritage and right to religious freedom, and I believe that they have those rights, just not the right to do it at all hours of the night.

    There is no HOA, or even a noise ordinance in our city. Other neighbors have been calling the police on them for years, but the cops do not really do anything. It is so bad that at least two houses on the block have been sold solely because of this problem (i.e., the owners could not deal with it any longer). In fact, one of those houses was the one we bought, which leads to my first question.

    • 1) Were the sellers legally required to disclose this nuisance to us (the buyers)? And would we have to disclose, if we decided to sell? I have read conflicting information online, and my real estate agent believes that they were not required to, nor that we would be required to in the future. We bought (and would sell) "as is," if that helps.
    • 2) Does anyone have any ideas for a solution, assuming that the issue cannot be solved with conversation between neighbors? I have considered, but not yet employed, the following ideas: sound proofing (window inserts, noise reduction curtains, etc.), bringing this to the attention of city council in hopes of a noise ordinance with consequences, and civil action, which would be my last resort.

    Regardless of the legality of disclosing this information or not to a potential buyer or tenant, my wife and I do not want to put others in the situation we are in now. I am not willing to lose everything over my conscience, but I am willing to let the ROI take a hit by adhering to my principles. If we did disclose this nuisance…

    • 3) How much harder would it be for us to get a good tenant in the house?
    • 4) How much harder would it be for us to sell the house?

    We are extremely stressed about this. We have even gone so far as starting to consider cutting our losses (or minimizing our gains), by listing the house for sale immediately and finding a place to rent. The uncertainty of the market is an added stressor, but is not driving the decision. Any help would be appreciated. This is a tough lesson to learn. We all know location is the most important aspect of any real estate investment, but I did not consider that this problem was in the realm of possibilities. Besides this issue, the location and house in general is everything we had hoped and planned for.

    If this is not the appropriate forum, please let me know.


    Sellers have to disclose all "material defects" which means anything that could affect someone's decision to buy the home. Your noisy neighbor definitely falls within that category and should be disclosed.

    If you choose to rent it, you would also have to disclose this to potential renters. It's going to make it difficult to rent.

    Since there's no noise ordinance, I think your only solution is to fight back. Get together with the neighbors and form a team that is in full agreement with fighting back. Give the noisy neighbors written warning that any noise after 10pm will not be tolerated and will be drowned out by death metal or whatever you choose. If they violate the 10pm agreement, you and your neighbors start blasting annoying music directly at your neighbors and drown them out. It won't happen more than a couple times before they get the message and move their ceremony somewhere else.

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  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    4y

    I think it would be hard to keep a tenant unless they have friends you want to rent to.  I can't believe there aren't some noise bylaws-talk to the city about getting some implemented.

    Can you look into replacing the windows in your bedroom to double or even triple pane to keep the noise out?  

    I agree with John, I'd keep calling the police and reporting it to the city.  Once and  while is fine, but not weekly.

  • Greg WeikBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Denver, CO · Member since 2020 · 263 posts · 327 votes
    4y

    @Noah Harper Sorry you're dealing with this, what a pain.

    As a licensed Real Estate Broker, I do not believe the previous sellers had a duty to disclose the fact that your neighbors are noisy. I'm not an attorney (though I do have a legal background), but this is not a material defect.  It's not listed as one of the domains of disclosure to new buyers, nor should it be.  It's not a permanent, immutable fact, and human behavior can change at any time.  

    In short, I would not burden your conscience with volunteering that your neighbors can be noisy.  My neighbors routinely have late-night parties in their backyard that are loud and go on later than my wife and I would like, and that situation is indistinguishable from your neighbors having a religious ceremony.  Noise is noise. 

    I applaud you for doing the right thing and speaking with your neighbors first.  Honestly, they sound like jerks.  Being "legally allowed" to do something doesn't make you a complete jerk for disregarding the quiet enjoyment of your neighbors.  Are they owners or renters?  If they are renters, I may have a proposed avenue to resolve this. 

    I think your best next step is to actually consult an attorney.  The attorney will likely advise you to document each and every situation, whereby the neighbors are creating a nuisance.  Document the time, and the duration, and document your requests for them to cease the noise past a certain time of the evening.  From there, a good attorney will likely propose possible strategies to move forward.  

    Tough though it may be, I would not give in and sell.  Especially now, with the market cooling as much as it has.  

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  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    4y

    Thoughts and ideas, beyond the normal ones of taking it to city council and/or your attorney.

    1. If there's no noise ordinance, that means there's probably no zoning ordinances virtually at all. Build a fence that is as tall as my house on my side of the property line facing their house of something solid - concrete block perhaps, with rebar reinforcement, or similar - and then screen off your side of it completely with some tall greenery such as Emerald Arborvitae or Thuja Green Giant. I'm not kidding - build a 30 foot tall wall right next door to their house, that you couldn't see but would reflect the noise back at them.

    2. Hang offensive things off the wall facing towards their house. Most or all of it will be protected under free speech.

    3. Go the @Nathan Gesner route of death metal or hardcore rap pointed at their house. Except I'd do it 24/7. On a loop with the same 2 songs.

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  • Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    If there is no noise ordinance, how about calling the cops when they are going on late at night for "disturbing the peace"?  That's got to be a law on the books, right?  You can't tell me if some fraternity is having a giant house party in your neighborhood late at night and you called the cops, they would respond with "it's a civil matter" or "there is no noise ordinance"?

    I like @JD Martin's first suggestion - the concrete wall would act like a sound barrier and would probably moderately work.  I would build it as tall as it needs to be to block line of sight from any bedroom in your house to the area of the backyard where they perform.  That should impede the sound along that path as well.

  • Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2017 · 319 posts · 330 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Wesley W.:

    If there is no noise ordinance, how about calling the cops when they are going on late at night for "disturbing the peace"?  That's got to be a law on the books, right?  You can't tell me if some fraternity is having a giant house party in your neighborhood late at night and you called the cops, they would respond with "it's a civil matter" or "there is no noise ordinance"?

    I like @JD Martin's first suggestion - the concrete wall would act like a sound barrier and would probably moderately work.  I would build it as tall as it needs to be to block line of sight from any bedroom in your house to the area of the backyard where they perform.  That should impede the sound along that path as well.


    While building your wall, be sure that your plan involves lots and lots of early morning jackhammering 🙂

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