When can you shoot? Self defense question

Question

After months of searching for my first investment property in SoCal, I've narrowed my search down to a few areas that meet my cash on cash requirement. That said, these areas are a little shadier. Not warzones by any means, but definitely places where you use the door's peep hole before opening.

That said, I've been shooting for years so I have a gun (Glock 22, Gen 3, RTF for you gun nuts) but I don't know the intricate details of firearm self defense legality. I feel safe from anything that comes onto my property, but don't want to do anything illegal or that could land me in jail.

Can I shoot someone if they've broken into my house? If their back is turned? If they're breaking into my car? If they're breaking into my car and it's in my garage? Etc, etc

I don't EVER want to shoot anyone, but I want to know my rights if something does go down.

Thanks guys!

Andy D. · Answer

Obviously the specific laws vary by state, but the principles of self defense are universal. I'm a retired police officer and I have always told people that if you can reasonably explain why you feel threatened, then you're fine. Being pissed off because someone stole something out of your garage and shooting them in the back as they run away won't fly, but if the bad guy's actions would cause any reasonable person tofeel threatened, then you are on solid ground.

Good luck in the hood and nice choice of weapon. I carried a Glock 22 for years and still do.

Good luck in the hood and nice choice of weapon.  I carried a Glock 22 for years and still do.

Account Closed · Answer

Bryan is correct - this is a state-specific determination.  Check out the California Penal Code and look at the defenses to homicide (and also battery and similar crimes, if you want to shoot someone in a non-fatal manner).

If found this on the internet - no idea if it is correct or up to date, so please don't rely on it if you decide to shoot someone:

http://law.justia.com/codes/california/2009/pen/187-199.html

Homicide is also justifiable when committed by any person in
any of the following cases:
   1. When resisting any attempt to murder any person, or to commit a
felony, or to do some great bodily injury upon any person; or,
   2. When committed in defense of habitation, property, or person,
against one who manifestly intends or endeavors, by violence or
surprise, to commit a felony, or against one who manifestly intends
and endeavors, in a violent, riotous or tumultuous manner, to enter
the habitation of another for the purpose of offering violence to any
person therein; or,
   3. When committed in the lawful defense of such person, or of a
wife or husband, parent, child, master, mistress, or servant of such
person, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design to
commit a felony or to do some great bodily injury, and imminent
danger of such design being accomplished; but such person, or the
person in whose behalf the defense was made, if he was the assailant
or engaged in mutual combat, must really and in good faith have
endeavored to decline any further struggle before the homicide was
committed; or,
   4. When necessarily committed in attempting, by lawful ways and
means, to apprehend any person for any felony committed, or in
lawfully suppressing any riot, or in lawfully keeping and preserving
the peace.

Ryan B. · Answer

If I were ever in a situation that I really felt my life was in jeopardy, I would have to go with the old saying -- I would rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

Mitch Kronowit · Answer

I'll never forget an NRA article I read decades ago about this subject. After considering local laws and other professional legal advice, the 2 things I took away from this article were:

- Always emphasize you were "fearing for your life" or for that of a "loved one". 
- Never say you shot or killed the assailant,  only that you "fired your weapon in his direction". Determining cause of death is the M.E.'s job, not yours.

Joel Owens · Answer

The legal system and laws have what's called a "ladder of force".

Meaning was the kind of force used appropriate for the situation.

Even if you are provoked if the perp has other "friends" to back their story of events and you don't that leaves you in a bad position.

Josh Prince · Answer

Hi Nic,

This is not legal advice. My basic understanding is that you can use lethal force to protect yourself if you feel your life is in danger or you can use lethal force to protect someone else's life.

You cannot use lethal force to protect property.  That means you cannot shoot someone if they are not threatening your life - so shooting someone in the back is a no-no - unless they are threatening someone else's life with their back turned toward you!  Breaking into the car is also a no-no for shooting.  I think there is precedent for believing your life is in danger if someone has broken into your house but you should check with a criminal or gun lawyer - Bruce Colodny is one local fellow.

I am in Los Angeles - may I ask what areas you are looking into investing in?  I have my own favorite areas - mid city, east hollywood, etc.  How about you?

Also - doesn't that RTF tear your hand up if you shoot a lot of rounds?? I held one at the shop and it was not comfortable to me!

Account Closed · Answer

i think this is state specific..for instance, the NC instructor of the class told us that if the intruder doesn't have a gun, then it's not self defense...sad thing is you may or may not have time to check and see if he has a gun.....then again, it depends how the media portrays it as well...what if it is self defense, but it was a 13 year old breaking in??  the media can be very powerful against greedy landlorlds..

Bill Gulley · Answer

It's strictly by state law as stated. We had a local TV special entitled "Shoot or Don't Shoot" presented by our district attoney. They demonstrated differnt situations where the use of lethal force(or any kind) was allowed.

The "drag them inside" doesn't apply in Mo., you can drop them in your front yard. Suprisingly, they showed a guy who cam out of his home with a shotgun and pictured a guy in the process of stealing the owner's car, then they freeze the picture and ask the question "shoot or don't shoot"? I missed that one, the DA said shoot!

The Cali law is interesting in that #4 is pretty wide open and is not limited to law enforcement officers, so any civilian in an attempt to preserve the peace.....that's pretty broad.

Even if you shoot someone and have the right to do so under criminal law, there is still civil law where the family of the perp can seek damages. That's where your actions will really need to be reasonable.

Dionte Graves · Answer

Hello....

This is certainly a state specific law as was previously stated.
Here in ohio we have a Concealed carry law in effect and my instructor told us that we couldnt use deadly force to protect property. We could only use deadly force if we fear seriously bodily harm or death. However Last September a law passed stating that you can use deadly force to protect property as well now. Just like Texas... I remember when this law first passed in ohio someone who opposed it played 911 a call from a guy in Texas who shot two thieves as they ran from his neighbors house with stolen goods... He was on the phone with 911 described the situation and said that we was going to "take em out" then you heard the shots in the background...

You just have to be a bit more careful in CA since there are no Concealed Carry Laws there. In any case it seem as though you are prepared so GOD WILLING you'll never have to deal with that crap!

Mitch Kronowit · Answer

Precisely what a New York State trooper told my grandfather years ago, i.e., if you shoot an intruder outside your house, drag him inside.

I'm sure forensics can tell the difference, so is this a case of the state looking the other way? Hmmm.

When can you shoot? Self defense question

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