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Updated over 1 year ago, 06/07/2023

User Stats

78
Posts
40
Votes
Michael M.
  • Investor
  • Bronx, NY
40
Votes |
78
Posts

Heloc on Heloc on Heloc forever?

Michael M.
  • Investor
  • Bronx, NY
Posted

I just took out a HELOC to use as a down payment an investment property. My monthly payments will be low (interest only for 10 year draw period), so shouldn't really affect my debt to income ratio much.

Once I buy the investment property, can I immediately take out a HELOC on the investment home? Since I am putting down 25% and the house will appraise for more than I bought it for, the numbers should work.

And then can I do it again with the house I buy using that HELOC as downpayment? And keep doing this forever and continue to buy more properties? Or am I missing something?

User Stats

345
Posts
365
Votes
Mike Dorneman
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Drums, PA
365
Votes |
345
Posts
Mike Dorneman
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Drums, PA
Replied

@Ashley Cao I think it’s a great whenever you can build a relationship with a banker / commercial lender. So yes, I try to do everything with the same bank. They know business model, they see my track record and they see my assets. All things that make for a better likelihood I’ll be approved for my next loan.

Good luck!

User Stats

4
Posts
7
Votes
Replied

I am looking to purchase my first rental property. I am planning on using my HELOC on my home for a down payment. I am currently in the process of finding the first deal. Is using my HELOC a good idea? I keep thinking worst case scenario when using a HELOC. Any advice would be appreciated! Thank you!

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User Stats

13
Posts
4
Votes
Matthew Phelps
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Tyler, TX
4
Votes |
13
Posts
Matthew Phelps
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Tyler, TX
Replied

@Robert J Koch III

I am in the process of doing the same thing, except I am going to be trying to do a few fix and flips before buy and hold. I think it is a good idea as long as you understand the numbers up front and do your due diligence on whatever property you plan on obtaining. Find a real estate agent that knows your market to better help you understand if you are getting a good deal. Make sure you property projects to positive cash flow once the numbers are ran. Once you do get that positive cash flow property, hit the refinance button and pay off the HELOC, rinse and repeat. The method works from what I have seen. You just have to make sure you are getting a good deal and are prepared for any potential pit falls.

User Stats

8
Posts
2
Votes
Replied

Can anyone please recommend a good HELOC credit union that which allow me to deposit funds into the HELOC? Thanks!

User Stats

284
Posts
184
Votes
Alvin Uy
Pro Member
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Los Angeles
184
Votes |
284
Posts
Alvin Uy
Pro Member
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Los Angeles
Replied
Originally posted by @Orlando Perez:

Are there any companies that do HELOC on non-primary residences? We have a rental property that has more equity than our primary residence?

Which companies/lenders have you used for your investment property Helocs?   I’ve used East West, “no docs” but only offer 60% LVT at 7.5% rate... $500k max limit.    Do you have another lender than can do better?

  • Alvin Uy
  • User Stats

    112
    Posts
    29
    Votes
    Orlando Perez
    • Real Estate Agent
    • Diamond Bar, CA
    29
    Votes |
    112
    Posts
    Orlando Perez
    • Real Estate Agent
    • Diamond Bar, CA
    Replied

    @Alvin Uy Thank you so much for getting back to me. We found two banks that do offer Helocs on our investment property. They are willing to do 75-80% at 7.25%. However, we are still weighing our options. We are in the process of getting plans approved for an ADU. So, we are trying to figure out our best options to finance that project, without to much risk. We need some skin in the game in order to start forming systems that work for us. What we want is to scale up with multifamily property (3 or 4 plex). If you have any suggestions, I am open to conversation.

    User Stats

    284
    Posts
    184
    Votes
    Alvin Uy
    Pro Member
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Los Angeles
    184
    Votes |
    284
    Posts
    Alvin Uy
    Pro Member
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Los Angeles
    Replied
    Originally posted by @Orlando Perez:

    @Alvin Uy Thank you so much for getting back to me. We found two banks that do offer Helocs on our investment property. They are willing to do 75-80% at 7.25%. However, we are still weighing our options. We are in the process of getting plans approved for an ADU. So, we are trying to figure out our best options to finance that project, without to much risk. We need some skin in the game in order to start forming systems that work for us. What we want is to scale up with multifamily property (3 or 4 plex). If you have any suggestions, I am open to conversation.

    Which bank is this? Please PM me your banks contact info. Thats better than what I got (EAST WEST BANK). Mine is at 60% LTV for investment properites at 7.5% but "no docs".

    To be honest, im in a similar boat. In my opinion, HELOCs should only be used as temporary financing... not for long term. I have 2 HELOCs opened right now against 2 of my 5 properties. Im flipping and doing new constructions with the funds. Im contemplating opening up HELOCs for the rest for more access to capital... but worried if its smart move. Also, I dont want to run the risk of over exposure on DTI and FICO... which may impact my ability to refi.

    I was just speaking to another investor today who is using HML at 7.99% @85%LTV for all his flips. Im thinking its a better bet since I can save my DTI off books for when I need to refi for buy and hold properties. So many strategies but all depend on your immediate financial needs and exit strategy.

    When you say “scale up with multi family properties”.... what exactly do you mean by this?

  • Alvin Uy
  • User Stats

    532
    Posts
    466
    Votes
    Craig Jeppesen
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Chubbuck, ID
    466
    Votes |
    532
    Posts
    Craig Jeppesen
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Chubbuck, ID
    Replied
    Originally posted by @Michael M.:

    I just took out a HELOC to use as a down payment an investment property. My monthly payments will be low (interest only for 10 year draw period), so shouldn't really affect my debt to income ratio much.

    Once I buy the investment property, can I immediately take out a HELOC on the investment home? Since I am putting down 25% and the house will appraise for more than I bought it for, the numbers should work.

    And then can I do it again with the house I buy using that HELOC as downpayment? And keep doing this forever and continue to buy more properties? Or am I missing something?

     The problem you will have is the equity part. Each loan will be 80% ltv max so you will need to build up equity for the next purchase. This will take a long while unless the market goes up quickly. I am guess I got that after a few the banks won’t do it anymore for their risk appetite. It definitely won’t work the scale a ton of purchases in a short period of time.

    User Stats

    17
    Posts
    5
    Votes
    Jessica Sarantakis
    • Real Estate Agent
    • Scottsdale, AZ
    5
    Votes |
    17
    Posts
    Jessica Sarantakis
    • Real Estate Agent
    • Scottsdale, AZ
    Replied

    I received a HELOC from Tower Credit Union and am doing interest only for 10 years. Here is the link: http://ww1.towercu.org/

    I would absolutely use them again. They did want to use an automated appraisal and I knew if I used someone local the appraisal would be higher and in fact it was. If you use a local appraiser you cover the cost which I was happy to do. 

    User Stats

    566
    Posts
    453
    Votes
    Cliff H.
    Pro Member
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Nashua, NH
    453
    Votes |
    566
    Posts
    Cliff H.
    Pro Member
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Nashua, NH
    Replied

    For those interested in this concept, I found show 197 with @Chris Heeren super informative.

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/bp-podcast-197starting-10k-buying-52-units-3-years-chris-heeren

  • Cliff H.
  • User Stats

    128
    Posts
    54
    Votes
    Matt Everling
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Temecula, CA
    54
    Votes |
    128
    Posts
    Matt Everling
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Temecula, CA
    Replied

    @Orlando Perez

    Just be careful with the ADU. Most cities require that the property owner live in one of the two units and make you record a covenant against the property for this purpose. You also can't sell them as separate units.

    User Stats

    128
    Posts
    54
    Votes
    Matt Everling
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Temecula, CA
    54
    Votes |
    128
    Posts
    Matt Everling
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Temecula, CA
    Replied

    @Jessica Sarantakis Thanks Jessica! Was there a particular CU you used that is listed on the website?

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    User Stats

    17
    Posts
    5
    Votes
    Jessica Sarantakis
    • Real Estate Agent
    • Scottsdale, AZ
    5
    Votes |
    17
    Posts
    Jessica Sarantakis
    • Real Estate Agent
    • Scottsdale, AZ
    Replied

    Hi Matt,

    I used Tower Credit Union. 

    https://www.towerfcu.org

    Please let me know if you have another question. I'm happy to help!

    User Stats

    922
    Posts
    533
    Votes
    Jim Goebel
    • Real Estate Investor
    • Des Moines, IA
    533
    Votes |
    922
    Posts
    Jim Goebel
    • Real Estate Investor
    • Des Moines, IA
    Replied

    @Mike Dorneman

    @Michael M.

    I might be missing something, perhaps just terminology, but no I had the understanding that bank do not do HELOCs on an investment property.  Is this not what others are seeing?  

    Functionally a commercial line of credit is common and the same thing financially - but to my understanding, it is not called a HELOC.

    User Stats

    345
    Posts
    365
    Votes
    Mike Dorneman
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Drums, PA
    365
    Votes |
    345
    Posts
    Mike Dorneman
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Drums, PA
    Replied

    @Jim Goebel I currently have 12 HELOAN's and 2 HELOC's on various investment properties. Without HE's the BRRR strategy doesn't exist...

    If your current bank told you no, find another. RE Investor meet ups are great places to learn which banks work with investors. This is how I found the current bank we do everything with.

    User Stats

    40
    Posts
    17
    Votes
    Brian Brusich
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Grand Blanc, MI
    17
    Votes |
    40
    Posts
    Brian Brusich
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Grand Blanc, MI
    Replied

    @Mike Dorneman I might be misunderstanding but can't you brrrr with cash out refinancing just as well as HELOCs, especially if you can find a place without seasoning that will cash out on the ARV?

    User Stats

    345
    Posts
    365
    Votes
    Mike Dorneman
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Drums, PA
    365
    Votes |
    345
    Posts
    Mike Dorneman
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Drums, PA
    Replied

    @Brian Brusich Yes, exactly! Sorry if I was unclear. The reason I' do Helocs is to have a large sum of cash on hand for deals, but not have to pay on the money until I actually use it. The issue with the HEloan, is you must start making payments right away, even if that cash is just sitting in my checking account as I look for the next deal. Plus, most banks allow you to swap a LOC to a Loan at any point without and fees. So max out the loc, convert it into a loan, then brrr the property you purchased with the LOC cash and refi the new deal. Rinse and repeat 😁

    User Stats

    40
    Posts
    17
    Votes
    Brian Brusich
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Grand Blanc, MI
    17
    Votes |
    40
    Posts
    Brian Brusich
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Grand Blanc, MI
    Replied

    @Mike Dorneman I'm new so let me reword what you said and you tell me if I'm saying it right

    You HELOC asap and don't draw on it until you need cash, in this way you don't have to pay interest until necessary

    You use as a bank that allows you to refi to arv value to pull equity and instantly repay HELOC. Bank is chosen for three factors, feeless loan transfer of HELOC to refi, no seasoning period and offer based on arv. At that point low interest rates would be icing.

    Do you use the same initial HELOC for cash flow or do you open a new one on the next place and sort of Daisy chain as you go?

    User Stats

    345
    Posts
    365
    Votes
    Mike Dorneman
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Drums, PA
    365
    Votes |
    345
    Posts
    Mike Dorneman
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Drums, PA
    Replied

    @Brian Brusich Yes to everything you stated. I daisy chain / leap frog. I bought my very first deal with my cash, I’ve since used each preceding deal to find the following one. Buy your first one, then never use your own money again. (You also recoup your own cash from the first deal during this process)

    User Stats

    40
    Posts
    17
    Votes
    Brian Brusich
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Grand Blanc, MI
    17
    Votes |
    40
    Posts
    Brian Brusich
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Grand Blanc, MI
    Replied

    @Mike Dorneman last question I think, is there a benefit to HELOC each new property versus just keeping heloc open on one of your most valuable properties and paying it off intermittently?

    User Stats

    27
    Posts
    9
    Votes
    Terence Eng
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Jersey City, NJ
    9
    Votes |
    27
    Posts
    Terence Eng
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Jersey City, NJ
    Replied

    Question to you guys on this post, did you have any issues getting approved for the HELOC (on primary residence) to be used on a purchase of another property?

    I am in application process with a lender (Affinity FCU) and when I mentioned I wanted to use the HELOC on my primary residence for down payment or purchase of another property as an investment, the underwriter hesitated and mentioned I may not be approved for this type of use.

    I've initially called the lender to make sure this use was ok, but now the underwriter I spoke to makes me think otherwise.

    thanks in advance!

    User Stats

    345
    Posts
    365
    Votes
    Mike Dorneman
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Drums, PA
    365
    Votes |
    345
    Posts
    Mike Dorneman
    • Rental Property Investor
    • Drums, PA
    Replied

    @Brian Brusich Cash flow is important to me so I have the ability to move on a deal when an opportunity presents itself. With that said, I keep a Heloc on my highest appraised property, to enable having access to the greatest amount of cash flow. If the next deal is appraised under the current property I have the Heloc on, ill just do a heloan on the new one.

    Great questions by the way, find a deal and jump in!!

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    User Stats

    85
    Posts
    49
    Votes
    David Ripplinger
    • Layton, UT
    49
    Votes |
    85
    Posts
    David Ripplinger
    • Layton, UT
    Replied

    Is it just me, or is this strategy the well known BRRRR method but with HELOCs instead of cash out refinances?

    User Stats

    4
    Posts
    7
    Votes
    Lareshea Anderson
    • Midlothian, TX
    7
    Votes |
    4
    Posts
    Lareshea Anderson
    • Midlothian, TX
    Replied

    This thread was super informative. I am in the process of applying for a HELOC on our primary residence to fund our first investment property.

    User Stats

    376
    Posts
    158
    Votes
    Cassandra Sifford
    • Rental Property Investor
    • New Castle, DE
    158
    Votes |
    376
    Posts
    Cassandra Sifford
    • Rental Property Investor
    • New Castle, DE
    Replied

    @Lareshea Anderson  That's how I got my 1st investment property!  I'm trying to get another one, but need more capital.  Well wishes!!!