Deal That Got Away (Good Idea to Remember In the Future)

Deal That Got Away (Good Idea to Remember In the Future)

Ozark , MO · Member since 2014 · 61 posts · 40 votes

My intention with this post is to give readers a possible way for getting into real estate should the right circumstances present themselves. I left out exact details of the deal to keep this short. Also, this deal was not created to make me a lot of money. It was created to help a person I know, and to get me into real estate investing with a lot more funds.

The Problem

A person I know came to me needing money (10k+). He is not employed nor does he have a vehicle. The only thing he has is a house free and clear that was gifted to him. He has poor credit so the banks wont loan anything to him. He informed me that he wanted to sell his house so that he could pay off his debts and restart his life. If he were to straight sell his house then he'd have to take a large tax hit since the house was gifted.

Also, I have been trying to get into real estate investing. I thought that this might be my best first shot..........I was wrong.

The Solution

We offered a seller financing deal that would change his life and mine. We first assessed the house. We determined that it would be worth around 124k$ after repair. The seller was willing to sell the house for 100k$. We determined that it would take 10k$ to repair the house. We lined up a hard money lender for 20k$. 10k$ of that would be a down payment to secure the seller financing and allow the seller to pay off his immediate debts. 10k$ would go into rehab. Our goal would be to sell the house for 124k.

Now the good part. The seller would note receive the 80k$ difference immediately. Instead, it would go into an escrow account. The note would be parked on my house. The seller would receive 350$ a month interest payments only. I would then have the ability to use the 80k$ to invest in other properties. The seller would be my first pick for contract work per the contract. Additional provisions could be negotiated on a per deal basis. This would continue for 10years or until we mutually agree to end the arrangement. (there were several provision details for protection of both parties but I just want to post the cliff notes)

This means that he was buying himself a job, getting a steady monthly income, and clearing up his present issues. I would have a chance at some funds to start my real estate investment career. My thought was that we would form a LLC and start making some big bucks once we sold his house. I really thought I was doing a good thing taking him from no job to potentially making a lot of money.

What Happened

The seller agreed to and signed the letter of intent. When we gave him the sales contract for the house he freaked out! He thought we were crazy for expecting him to sign the sales contract so soon. I later found out that his ex-girlfriend had been trying to talk him out of it, and he was not capable of doing physical labor. This means that he was not able to perform his part in this contract. After he blew up he stopped communications with me. I decided that his outrageous behavior and lack of communication were good indicators that I wouldn't want to do business with him. There were also a lot of risks for me involved that I could no longer trust him with. (like MY HOUSE!!!!)

Conclusion

Had everything gone as expected it would have been great. I would have had funds to invest with, an incredibly smart/experienced mentor, and a partner to help with the rehabs. He would have had all his problems solved and a bright future. Instead, I'm back to looking for that next opportunity. Hopefully I can turn this experience into an opportunity. If anything, hopefully I gave somebody a good idea for creating a real estate investment opportunity.

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Karen MargraveBusiness Member
Moderator
Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
11y

@Phillip Tillotson  I can see why he bolted. Unless I totally missed something, your scenario makes no sense, and is structured to benefit one person, you. 

It's his house. You want him to sell it to you for a substantial discount, then you want to use his house to get a loan using a minimal amount of the money to invest back into the property that would be securing the loan. You encumber the property apparently for enough to give you $80,000 (you aren't really clear on this part), giving you  the ability to spend the money from HIS EQUITY and his security, on your deals. As if that's not bad enough, you think you're being generous by allowing him to work on the house? Also, on the $350, how long was he going to receive that? What if the house didn't sell? 

What experience do you have that he should have trusted you with what obviously is his only asset? What protections were there for the seller? I'll tell you, none.

I think it was a TERRIBLE idea. There's many ways you could have worked with the seller to put a deal together that could have been beneficial to both of you, but your deal missed the mark on every point from what I see. 

See this reply in the discussion

13 Replies

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  • Investor · Lansing, MI · Member since 2014 · 32 posts · 16 votes
    11y

    I love the creativity with this deal.  I have not done anything that complex yet, but look forward to as my traditional route is drying up.  It all sounds good in theory.  Go keep your head up and look around for the next opportunity.  We can't get every deal closed.  

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    11y

    Sounds like you avoided a big mess! Take it as a blessing.

    What's worse than having ZERO properties?? Having properties involving a complex strategy that doesn't work out and saddles your investing career for years or decades before you can recover............... : )

  • Ozark , MO · Member since 2014 · 61 posts · 40 votes
    11y

    I would agree with your assessment if I didn't have such a smart/experienced person helping with the deal. 

    Edit: also assuming the seller could perform. My only fear was the financial strain I'd have until we sold the house.

  • Lender · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 664 posts · 231 votes
    11y

    I've heard it said a few times, "I'd rather regret the transaction that got away then the one I did."

  • Ozark , MO · Member since 2014 · 61 posts · 40 votes
    11y

    I understand that this deal may not make sense for people who have money or partners with money, lots of real estate knowledge, and/or lots of GC experience. However, if you are starting from scratch with nothing then you will need to take bigger risks to get started. Once I have real cash/experience to work with I will look for more traditional deals.

    I would never have even thought of doing a deal like this if I didn't have such an experienced mentor assisting.

  • Karen MargraveBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    @Phillip Tillotson  I can see why he bolted. Unless I totally missed something, your scenario makes no sense, and is structured to benefit one person, you. 

    It's his house. You want him to sell it to you for a substantial discount, then you want to use his house to get a loan using a minimal amount of the money to invest back into the property that would be securing the loan. You encumber the property apparently for enough to give you $80,000 (you aren't really clear on this part), giving you  the ability to spend the money from HIS EQUITY and his security, on your deals. As if that's not bad enough, you think you're being generous by allowing him to work on the house? Also, on the $350, how long was he going to receive that? What if the house didn't sell? 

    What experience do you have that he should have trusted you with what obviously is his only asset? What protections were there for the seller? I'll tell you, none.

    I think it was a TERRIBLE idea. There's many ways you could have worked with the seller to put a deal together that could have been beneficial to both of you, but your deal missed the mark on every point from what I see. 

  • Real Estate Investor · Destin, FL · Member since 2015 · 131 posts · 64 votes
    11y

    @Phillip Tillotson - love the creativity with this deal that didn't happen.  Kind of a cool new strategy and give me another option to consider when looking at free and clear properties.

    As a new guy coming into RE, I can simpithize with you because from where I sit it feels like there are about a million different ways to loose a deal.  And I'm discovering a new one each day! :)

    Best of luck on your building your RE empire!

  • Ozark , MO · Member since 2014 · 61 posts · 40 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Karen Margrave:

    @Phillip Tillotson  I can see why he bolted. Unless I totally missed something, your scenario makes no sense, and is structured to benefit one person, you. 

    It's his house. You want him to sell it to you for a substantial discount, then you want to use his house to get a loan using a minimal amount of the money to invest back into the property that would be securing the loan. You encumber the property apparently for enough to give you $80,000 (you aren't really clear on this part), giving you  the ability to spend the money from HIS EQUITY and his security, on your deals. As if that's not bad enough, you think you're being generous by allowing him to work on the house? Also, on the $350, how long was he going to receive that? What if the house didn't sell? 

    What experience do you have that he should have trusted you with what obviously is his only asset? What protections were there for the seller? I'll tell you, none.

    I think it was a TERRIBLE idea. There's many ways you could have worked with the seller to put a deal together that could have been beneficial to both of you, but your deal missed the mark on every point from what I see. 

    Karen,

    His goal was to avoid taxes, pay off debts, buy a vehicle, and get a job without getting help from his father.

    He was getting 10k$ up front to pay off debts, buy a vehicle, and do whatever else he needed. He would be staying at my house until we started doing well with real estate.

    The job spelled out in the contract was that he would get paid to do renovations. I had planned to make it a formal LLC if it looked like we were doing good. Also, I had planned to split profits. This means that he would be getting interest from the 80k$ that I discuss below, pay for renovation work, and profits from the real estate deal. This would all be negotiated on a per deal basis unless a formal LLC was created.

    We avoided taxes by putting the majority of the sale in a note against MY house. We agreed to end this part of the agreement after 10 years. This means interest payments and then a balloon payment on the 10th year. My mentor had thoughts for minimizing taxes if we got to the 10 year point and he wanted to continue.

    The 80k$ would have gone in an escrow account. I (or llc if we formed one) would have to pay interest on the 80k$. I (or llc) would be allowed to borrow against the 80k$ for real estate investments. Anything over 5k$ would create a lien against the property that was purchased. If the money was not being used then it would be placed in a FDIC insured bank. This means that at all times the seller had protection. If I messed up big enough then he'd get whatever property I purchased and MY HOUSE. I don't want to lose my house.

    For the heck of it lets pretend that he accepted and he was done with real estate after the 10 years, or we both agreed to end it after whatever amount of time. He would get the 80k$ and would have to pay taxes then unless he re-invested it on his own. I knew this going in and hoped that we could be successful enough that he would want to continue to work with me.

    Please keep in mind that I didn't include every detail of everything so that I could try to keep this short. If you have questions about something that I didn't include then please ask. Don't assume that I was trying to screw the guy. I know him personally.

  • San Antonio, TX · Member since 2015 · 10 posts · 1 vote
    11y

    Sorry this didn't work out. I owner finance most of my houses but the guy has to have a steady job and at least 5000 in the deal on a 60k wholesale house. Not surprised this deal didn't work. Looks like you learned a lot :)

  • Karen MargraveBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    @Phillip Tillotson

     The devil is in the details, and that's why when you put something on here for people to comment, it's important to give all the details that are pertinent to the deal. I was going off what you stated, and with the information in your post, it seemed pretty one sided. 

    Now looking at the rest of the details, I can see where it could have turned into a hot mess, and you're both probably lucky it didn't come together, just way too many parts to the puzzle. Just my .02. 

  • Ozark , MO · Member since 2014 · 61 posts · 40 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Karen Margrave:

    @Phillip Tillotson

     The devil is in the details, and that's why when you put something on here for people to comment, it's important to give all the details that are pertinent to the deal. I was going off what you stated, and with the information in your post, it seemed pretty one sided. 

    Now looking at the rest of the details, I can see where it could have turned into a hot mess, and you're both probably lucky it didn't come together, just way too many parts to the puzzle. Just my .02. 

    It is definitely not a simple deal. I was lucky to have one of the smartest and most experienced mentors in the nation helping though. As stated before, my only fear was the financial crunch until the house was sold.

  • Real Estate Investor · Woodstock, GA · Member since 2015 · 7 posts · 13 votes
    11y

    @Phillip Tillotson I totally understood what you were saying about the deal structure  Sadly, I think the biggest thing you learned here was how much you can trust a friend. That sounds terrible but he agreed to the plan of putting himself in business with you as a GC knowing he could not fulfill it. Maybe he planned to hire a crew and mostly supervise and orchestrate, but I am guessing you would have included that if that were the case.

  • Ozark , MO · Member since 2014 · 61 posts · 40 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Linda Smith:

    @Phillip Tillotson I totally understood what you were saying about the deal structure  Sadly, I think the biggest thing you learned here was how much you can trust a friend. That sounds terrible but he agreed to the plan of putting himself in business with you as a GC knowing he could not fulfill it. Maybe he planned to hire a crew and mostly supervise and orchestrate, but I am guessing you would have included that if that were the case.

     That's a pretty spot on assessment. The contract outlined that if there was work he couldn't do then I could hire somebody else. I didn't know I'd have to do that on every deal. He didn't mention hiring others.

    Worst part is that I thought I had this deal sunk. I told all my friends who follow what I do. Once it fell through I got to tell all the same people what happened. (I know. Don't spend the check before it is signed. I was excited!!)

    I'm going to continue to save money and talk real estate until I can find the next deal. Hopefully I have better luck on the next one.

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