Understanding Refinancing once and for all!!!

Understanding Refinancing once and for all!!!

Yoni R.Pro Member
Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2016 · 100 posts · 22 votes
I need to some helping understanding the refinance game once and for all. These are the details of the property I want to buy: -Asking price $130,000 -Zoned single family (but was used as a duplex in the past) -An additional $60k is needed to rehab the house. I want to buy the house in cash and rehab it and then refinance it to get whatever I can out of it to be used on the next deal. My game plan is to rehab it as a single family (so that it will pass the inspection) but to have it setup so that it can easily be made into a duplex when ready (put up a wall and add an additional kitchen back to back with the current kitchen). I want to rent out the house as a single family for the first year and in that time refinance it and get my money out. Once the year is up I will turn it into a duplex and rent out the units. Each unit for $1,300. So cash on cash: Yearly rent $31,200/cost $190,000 = %16.4 return. The questions are as follows: 1. What does a refinance entail? 2. How long does the process take? 3. Will they do an inspection to check that it matches the permitted plans? 4. Who inspects the house? The lender/bank or the city? 5. If they do inspect then why? For what reason? 6. Is it a one time scheduled inspection or do they send multiple inspectors for different things? 7. Is the refinance for the appraised value of the rehabbed house or only for the cash I put in or bough it for? 8. What is the average refinance rate? %70, %75, %80? And what do they base it on? Anything else I need to know about refinancing and inspections before going forward with this deal? How does my game plan sound? Thanks for all the help!
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Stephanie P.Pro Member
Washington, DC Mortgage Lender/Broker · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
9y

@Yoni R.

The inspection by the lender is done for value, not to make sure the permitted work is satisfied.  In order to have the permits signed off, you'd have to go through the county.  Hope I didn't mislead you.

You'd have to make sure the property is properly zoned for a duplex before you just turn it into a duplex.  Once the plans are approved and the work is complete you can get a loan.

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  • Stephanie P.Pro Member
    Washington, DC Mortgage Lender/Broker · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Yoni R.

    1. The refinance entails a ton of paperwork and verifications that could include income, cash reserves and credit.
    2. The process can take 30 days or longer depending on conditions and how fast the borrower gets their paperwork to the lender and if any conditions create new conditions
    3. Not really the permitted plans, but to make sure the work was done in a workmanlike manner and that permits were pulled for work completed.
    4. An appraiser for the bank.  Don't order your own appraisal
    5. to take pictures, to measure, to check the condition of the property
    6. One time
    7. to answer this question, for some lenders there are seasoning requirements for cash out and for others there are none.
    8. Again, to answer this question, we'd have to define the type of loan you're going for; full doc or stated, cash out or rate and term etc...

    Hope this helps,

    PM me with further questions

    Stephanie

  • Yoni R.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2016 · 100 posts · 22 votes
    9y
    Stephanie Potter thanks so much for the answers. Great info. So if the inspection is done by the lender then what do they care if it matches the permits exactly? Should I maybe refinance right off the bat and then after that turn it into a duplex? Even if it means that the house will be vacant for a few months at least that way I won't be stuck with the rents of a single family for a year.
  • Stephanie P.Pro Member
    Washington, DC Mortgage Lender/Broker · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Yoni R.

    The inspection by the lender is done for value, not to make sure the permitted work is satisfied.  In order to have the permits signed off, you'd have to go through the county.  Hope I didn't mislead you.

    You'd have to make sure the property is properly zoned for a duplex before you just turn it into a duplex.  Once the plans are approved and the work is complete you can get a loan.

  • Rental Property Investor · Greeley, CO · Member since 2017 · 226 posts · 99 votes
    9y

    @Yoni R. It depends on the type of loan you are going for at refinance.  Are you working with a traditional mortgage lender or a portfolio/commercial lender?  Portfolio lenders tend to have easier underwriting standards, especially since this is an investment.  The length of the time will be similar with both.  Once you get them all the documents they need it will take them 1-2 weeks to analyze the deal and make a decisions.  From there they will order an appraisal.  Appraisals can take 20-45 days depending on the current demand in your market.  Once the appraisal comes back and is approved by the bank it is typically fairly quick (about a week or less) for loan documents to be prepared.

    Depending on where you live, a city inspector will likely do an inspection on any permits pulled to make sure the work is done according to code.  Check with your local authority on this.  Your loan officer will likely do a drive-by inspection to get an understanding of what they are lending on.  But the appraiser they hire typically needs access to the inside of the property to take pictures and measurements for their appraisal report.  If there are any issues any of these three parties may require additional inspections (additional inspections that may be required are pest inspections or possibly a survey).  When your inpsector comes out it is helpful to provide them with information on what was done during rehab and how much was spent as they do reference your purchase price in their report.

    Depending on your lender they will have different rules as to how much you can refinance out.  After a year they typically will refinance based on the appraised amount only and it is based on percentage of that. The exact percentage is going to vary from lender to lender (unless you go with a traditional mortgage and that is dictated by FNMA and other government agencies).

    Your plan sounds doable.  Keep asking questions and keep pushing.  The most successful people I know hear a lot of "no's" before they get a "yes."  But they keep going until they get to the "yes."

  • Yoni R.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2016 · 100 posts · 22 votes
    9y
    Stephanie Potter There is no permit from the city for a deplux. I want to make it a deplux regardless of the fact. The question is if the lender will give the loan even if the house is zoned for a single family but in reality is a duplex. If the lender is looking for value then there is definitely value being demonstrated. It just doesn't have a permit for being a duplex. Does the lender care?
  • Yoni R.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2016 · 100 posts · 22 votes
    9y
    Joshua Fulenwider I actually don't want to pull or file for new permits because the duplex will not be authorized by the city. I just want the lender to refinance/mortgage the property for me. The question is if I have to have the house set up according to the city permits or are they just looking for value? if I make it a duplex and then ask for the refinance from the lender will I get it?
  • Stephanie P.Pro Member
    Washington, DC Mortgage Lender/Broker · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    If a duplex is not allowed, you will not get a loan. if permits don't match what you build, you won't be able to sell the property later (or at least it will be difficult).

  • Yoni R.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2016 · 100 posts · 22 votes
    9y
    Stephanie Potter I'm looking to buy and hold the property. The only real change is closing a wall in the middle of the house to make it a duplex and adding an additional standard kitchen. Whenever and if ever I decide to sell the house I'll just take down the wall and the kitchen. That's easy. The structure of the house will not change in any way besides that. Will the lender care? As long as there's value in the loan so what do they care?
  • Rental Property Investor · Greeley, CO · Member since 2017 · 226 posts · 99 votes
    9y

    @Yoni R. it's going to depend on your lender and the type of loan you are pursuing.  A bank may look at it as a single family home with a second kitchen (not uncommon).  Do you have a lender you are working with already?  If you have an open-minded lender you may be able to float the situation by them phrasing it as a hypothetical.

    If you came to me to finance it I wouldn't care about it being set up as a duplex, but I am a commercial lender not a mortgage broker.  Since I work for a portfolio lender we have more discretion and I would base my decision more on the loan analysis.

    I would discourage trying to hide issues with the property.  You want to be honest with your lender.  Character is a crucial part of banking but it is very subjective so it is imperative to have a good relationship with your lender.  Talk to whomever you are working with and see what their requirements are.

    The good thing is, if you run it by your banker and they say they can't help you, there are thousands of other banks you go to.

  • Yoni R.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2016 · 100 posts · 22 votes
    9y
    Joshua Fulenwider can you give me the details in the different type of loans I can go after? I am looking to cash out so I can leverage the money onto new property investments. What do you recommend? I am not looking to hide the fact that it is a duplex from the lender at all. I just didn't understand if the city will be involved in approving the loan for the lender. I of course don't want the city making problems. Now that I understand the process and understand that the city has nothing to do with it and that a lot of the lenders are just looking for value and not permit obedience then this deal is indeed starting to look good for me. If you have any average or realistic interest rates on what to expect with lenders for a refinance that would be great info too. Thanks!
  • Rental Property Investor · Greeley, CO · Member since 2017 · 226 posts · 99 votes
    9y

    @Yoni R. if you are going to be living in this property you can pursue a conventional mortgage and get better rates/terms. This could be a 30 year amortization possibly with a point or two paid for closing costs. This could be done on a fixed rate or an ARM (adjustable rate mortgage).

    If you were to come to me, my rates and terms are going to depend on the property and your experience as a borrower. The information I give are examples of what is currently available in my area. Your area could be different. I would be writing it up as a commercial real estate loan. This means a maximum 20 year amortization. We only do variable rates on real estate which is similar to an ARM (typically a 3/1 or 5/1). Rates are currently ranging from about 5.75%-7.75% (prime + 2.00% to prime + 3.00% with prime currently at 3.75%). Don't quote me on this as these are always changing.

    I have found that these are fairly common terms in my market.

  • Stephanie P.Pro Member
    Washington, DC Mortgage Lender/Broker · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    Generally, if the zoning calls for a single family residential, but you are trying to make it into units, you must get zoning approval or you are creating a non conforming zoning situation and most lenders, commercial or residential, care about zoning. We have access to a significant number of lenders who lend on single family, 2-4 units and multi family apts and each lender requires zoning to match the property and for it to be legal.

    30 year amortization so are available on many commercial products

    Stephanie

  • Real Estate Agent · North Attleboro, MA · Member since 2017 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    Apply for a zoning variance with the city. If it doesn't fly, I would not convert it to a duplex. If that is the only way that you can cash flow positive on the property, I would pass on it. You will have issues whenever you try to sell. And, you will definitely have huge problems if you ever had to make an insurance claim (fire, hurricane, flooding, etc....)

    What will the after reno value be on the home as a single family? Would it make sense to just flip?

  • Yoni R.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2016 · 100 posts · 22 votes
    9y
    Jarrod Rocha I'm trying to build a rental portfolio but I am open to flipping as well. The house I'm trying to buy is 125k the rehab is 50k and let's say 10k for closing etc... So 185k all in. Houses of this type in the area are around 210k-230k. If I buy it I am going to set it up as a single family with an option to make it a duplex really easily. That way if I do decide to sell it one day it can be reverted back to a single family easily and cost efficiently. As a duplex I will be netting a 15% return and as a single family probably around a 6% return. I will only buy a house if it is a 1 percenter, so as a duplex its good for me but as a single it's not. What's your thoughts?
  • Real Estate Agent · North Attleboro, MA · Member since 2017 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    Yoni, i understand what you want to accomplish and that it makes more sense financially for you as a duplex. For me the risk would not outweigh the reward to illegally convert.

    Good luck with whichever you decide to do!

    Jarrod

  • Yoni R.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2016 · 100 posts · 22 votes
    9y

    @Jarrod Rocha What is the risk in your eyes or from your experience?

  • Real Estate Agent · North Attleboro, MA · Member since 2017 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    The unexpected happening..........From a real estate agent perspective you would have a hard time selling it as an illegal duplex. I know you said that if you sold it you would take the wall down and take the kitchen out, but that is also an additional cost and a big PIA.

    As I mentioned before, If you ever have to put in an insurance claim you might be immediately denied (I am not an insurance agent, so I could be wrong about that).  If the city catches wind for whatever reason you could have some major issues on your hands as well.

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