Any advice on Asbestos Removal and Demo??

Question

Hi my name is Lauren, my family and I are working on developing our first multi-family property. We have been Custom Home Builders for nearly 20 years but we don’t know much about asbestos removal and demolition procedures.

We are looking to do a complete demolition of our current building (an old restaurant from the 60s) so that we can redevelop this land for a mixed-use property (apartments/commercial spaces). However, our asbestos lab report came back with positive asbestos in 7 materials (tile, Sheetrock, etc.). And 5 of these 7 materials came back with a 2% positive “visual estimation” of asbestos. From what I understand, in the state of Texas (which is where our property resides) if a material contains over 1% of asbestos, it is necessary to have it properly removed by a certified abatement company.

The gentlemen who performed the lab test results showed up to the property with an asbestos removal (abatement) guy, without giving us a heads up that he was tagging along. So we are starting to wonder whether it is common for asbestos lab testers to make deals with asbestos removal companies, which may lead to loose “visual estimations” in favor of the abatement company. We have received several quotes for asbestos removal and the cost is massive (anywhere from $40k-$95k in asbestos removal for a 6700 sqft building).

We are considering the idea of performing a “point count” analysis (or TEM). From what I understand, this is a more detailed analysis of the materials tested positive to determine whether they truly contain over 1% of asbestos.

I would welcome any feedback or advice regarding whether it would be worth paying for a point count or TEM analysis. And if anyone out there has any experience with asbestos removal and/or demolition procedures, any tips would be GREATLY appreciated!

Thanks.

James Hamling · Answer

@Lauren Alia Mlouhi as a GC myself having specialized in HAZMAT and having licenses in such, I am not a fan of the abatement people "tagging" along with inspectors but it is a common occurrence. As for the "visual inspection" I have never heard of such a thing, not for asbestos. Every asbestos project I have ever had inspected or known of any other having had inspected we always received 2 reports; first the verbal or e-mail report of what inspector found and took samples of believing there may be asbestos, than the official finalized report with the lab results per tested area.

If it was a question over say tiles in a SFH kitchen it would be something worth just abating, the capital outlay your speaking of, I would definitely go with next level testing. In addition, is there not encapsulation options available? While I am operating from MN there is rather universal consensus as to the merits of encapsulation vs remediation for least risk impacts, etc.

Jim Spatzenfeld · Answer

Asbestos “visually identified”? What the heck? There is no asbestos present unless a lab test confirms that the material really contains asbestos. I had once some siding shingles tested that the neighbor complained to have asbestos. I removed a couple of shingles and sent them in. The test was just $100-$200 and came back negative. I would not spend $50k on the removal of something that "looks" like asbestos unless it actually really "has" asbestos in it.

Account Closed · Answer

I have an asbestos abatement license in California and it is illegal for a testing company to hire a contractor. The only thing the testing company is supposed to do is test for asbestos and write a report that tells the contractor you choose where the asbestos is he engineers the method and tools to abate the asbestos. When the contractors is finished the testing company tests again and provides a clearance certificate.

If a testing company was allowed to hire and work with the contractor then you can bet there will be asbestos in every property that is tested.

Lauren Alia Mlouhi · Answer

Thanks for the feedback Jack. As you mentioned, almost all of the materials originally tested were found to be ACM. However once we conducted the further TEM testing, we found that the original data was substantially exaggerated. Thanks again for your help.

Lauren Alia Mlouhi · Answer

@Greg Dickerson

Thanks for the feedback Greg. The quotes we have received for the point count is <$1000 so I agree, it may be worth looking into.

Lauren Alia Mlouhi · Answer

@James Hamling completely agree with you James. We went through with the further TEM testing and our suspicions proved to be true, 2 materials came back negative! Thank you for the feedback, really appreciated your experience with this matter.

Lauren Alia Mlouhi · Answer

@Steve Morris

Hi Steven, thanks for the response. I should’ve made this situation more clear, I understand that the asbestos tester and abatement guy will be working together. We are currently speaking with 6 different abatement companies to negotiate the best price. So the gentlemen that the tester brought along is not necessarily the gentleman who will performing the asbestos removal of the property.

This raised concern from our end because more asbestos “visually identified” on the property means a higher cost that the abatement guy will charge to properly remove the materials tested positive for asbestos on the property. We just want to understand whether the 1% difference of these visual estimates are normal or if they are worth looking into more critically.

If you have any experience with TEM or asbestos removal in general, I would love to hear it.

Greg Dickerson · Answer

Asbestos removal can be expensive as you are finding out. Generally you want to perform the tests prior to closing s part of your DD so you know the costs and can renegotiate. If the cost for the point count is reasonable it sounds like its definitely worth it in your situation.

Steve Morris · Answer

"So we are starting to wonder whether it is common for asbestos lab testers to make deals with asbestos removal companies"

Welllllllllll, it does sound suspicious, but one guy has to do testing and the other remediation, so they kinda work together, You could always shop the experts and hire another since you're so close to non-remediation.

In OR, in any case, you're going to need to get a licensed guy to do it.

Any advice on Asbestos Removal and Demo??

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