11 acre water-front land. Do I have a deal or walk away????

11 acre water-front land. Do I have a deal or walk away????

Investor · Bensalem, PA · Member since 2011 · 146 posts · 93 votes

Hello fellow BPers

Through a random string of events I’m now looking at a potential 11 acre waterfront deal, that I’m hoping a few of you have some input to give me.

I have been going back and forth in my head trying to figure this one out, to see if I even have a deal at all, and if I do how do I go about closing this and next step.

A few disclaimers:

I have ZERO experience in land development. The most land development I have ever done was put a mobile home on a vacant lot. So this really is virgin territory for me.

I have ZERO experience in running a boat Marina, and I really have no desire to run one. From what I read, heard and explained to me. They are labor intensive and you really have to be there all the time.

Now the details:

As I said before, through a completely random string of events, last week ending up having a 1.5 hour sit down with the owner of a boat Marina. He’s owned and operated it for 7 days a week for 30+ years. He wants to sell, he is done. How done? “Put money in my hand at the price I want for it and I’ll hand you the keys and walk away right now”. (He wants 1.6 M but also said he would go lower if it meant he didn’t have to be a consultant or be involved) I said 1 million? He said maybe, and left it at that. Guy is up there in age and came the realization that he missed out on a lot of life events and family. Determined to spend what time he has left with grandkids.

The marina is on 11 acres of land, 2 of the 4 property sides are along the water. The Marina water portion itself is pretty large that can accommodate up to 200 boat slips. But just to give you an idea of how downhill this place is. There are 15 active and paying members of the Marina. Also this is could be considered a boat grave yard. There are literally about a hundred abandoned boats and heavy equipment machinery throughout the property, so there is going to be a large cleanup and boat disposal bill.

He has been approached by condo developers. I totally believe him because he showed me the business cards of the other gentlemen. There have been tracts of water front land being bought up recently too, but they have not made a move yet. They are going through the motions of visiting township officials and zoning etc, but doesn't want to wait a year or 2 until developers get their ducks in a row, he wants out now.  Which I guess is why he spent time with me when I said, I would just keep it as a marina.

side note: I did a market research survey a few years back on whether the area would support a waterfront restaurant (It was an idea 5 years ago) and the results that were a solid yes. So that’s been rolling around in my head.

I’m at a loss guys. Do I have something here? I believe there is a reason for everything , and I feel that there seems to be an opportunity here, but I don’t have the knowledge or expertise to pull it all together. 

And you know they stopped making water front property awhile ago. :-)

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
9y

floating tiny homes... ????  cash in on both the latest craze's ... sure looks like a deal to me.. of course I am west coast bias and 1 mil for all that seems dirt cheap.. but then again so does 30k houses in PA... compared to what we deal with.

but I guess on a personal level do you want to be that guy.. work on it every day for 30 years..and if its run into the ground how are you going to change that.???? 

I have seen this show in those that try to buy C and D class multi thinking the last guy was a slumlord only to loss the butt.

I like the flip to the developer though.. if you can leverage in .. get your plates approved and flip to developer who can take it down that could work nicely. 

Get with a really good land use planner in the county or whatever jurisdiction your in.. and or civil engineering firm they have probably already been approached..

the first thing I do when I look at this type of stuff that is in an area I am not familiar with I pay a civil that has a land use component in their office for a due diligence package Usually around 8 to 10k.. and since there is a milske on the line probably not a bad use of 10k to figure out what your getting into...

all us in the peanut gallery of BP and the internet can make assumptions but what do we really know.. not a lot really..

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Investor · Bensalem, PA · Member since 2011 · 146 posts · 93 votes
    9y

    And here is some food for thought.  Bigger pockets own ads, are displaying recent condo's that were developed within close proximity of this property.  

  • Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2016 · 84 posts · 48 votes
    9y
    has the thought of RV park crossed your mind?
  • Investor · Bensalem, PA · Member since 2011 · 146 posts · 93 votes
    9y

    It has, however I don't believe the township will allow one.  Besides I was hoping to do something a little different than the usual

  • Real Estate Agent · Cupertino, CA · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Go to local planning dept to see if you can do these things.  Ask permits, zoning etc. if feel comfortable get may be 2 appraisals and figures $$$ is the basis of haggling.....

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    floating tiny homes... ????  cash in on both the latest craze's ... sure looks like a deal to me.. of course I am west coast bias and 1 mil for all that seems dirt cheap.. but then again so does 30k houses in PA... compared to what we deal with.

    but I guess on a personal level do you want to be that guy.. work on it every day for 30 years..and if its run into the ground how are you going to change that.???? 

    I have seen this show in those that try to buy C and D class multi thinking the last guy was a slumlord only to loss the butt.

    I like the flip to the developer though.. if you can leverage in .. get your plates approved and flip to developer who can take it down that could work nicely. 

    Get with a really good land use planner in the county or whatever jurisdiction your in.. and or civil engineering firm they have probably already been approached..

    the first thing I do when I look at this type of stuff that is in an area I am not familiar with I pay a civil that has a land use component in their office for a due diligence package Usually around 8 to 10k.. and since there is a milske on the line probably not a bad use of 10k to figure out what your getting into...

    all us in the peanut gallery of BP and the internet can make assumptions but what do we really know.. not a lot really..

  • Investor · Princeton, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Jonathan Jewell   Don't get ahead of yourself.  I would start on google maps.  The first concern I have is as a marina it has what appears to be a state subsidized competitor within walking distance.  They have gotten most of the business in the area. 

    There is also a water front restaurant not far from there.  How much business have they been getting?

    Residential might be your best bet.  Which leads me to another question.  Can you build something that can compete with something like 300 State Rd?

    Think about all of that.  If it still seems like a good idea then spend the 8K to 10K @Jay Hinrichs mentioned.

  • Johnson City, TN · Member since 2014 · 586 posts · 705 votes
    9y

    I will give you something to think about that will send a cold shiver up your spine. I live in an area with several large lakes. The largest of these lakes has several marinas and residential communities. It is very popular and crowded in the summer months. In the winter months the lakes are drawn down and in some areas are little more than small rivers. TVA built these lakes in the years right after WW2 and they have been enjoyed every year until 2 years ago. The largest lake's dam had an erosion issue under it and the TVA decided that the lake levels would remain at winter levels or even lower until repairs were completed. These repairs are projected to take up to SEVEN years to complete! The marina business in the lake has been destroyed and people have gone broke as a result. No one ever expected this a few years ago but there are no guarantees.

  • Professional · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2017 · 624 posts · 147 votes
    9y
     @Jonathan Jewell:

    He has been approached by condo developers. 

     Depends on the land, what can be built on it and resulting CF based on strategy... what is in or around the area... so others are thinking about a condo project? If some sort of residential project, you would have to look intensely into the economics of the region to determine feasibility... its not really if it can be built but if it should be. Are you allowed to say exactly where it is?

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Account Closed  not sure those areas are subject to draught conditions like the west coast.

    but U take the Marina's on Lake Mead and Shasta and some of the other big reservoirs of the west the marinas were all high and dry last 3 to 5 years .. now with CA getting record rain they are back in business :)  but good point if the lake is man made

  • Investor · Grosse Pointe Shores, MI · Member since 2017 · 160 posts · 74 votes
    9y

    There is a marina near me that has developed "dockominiums".   This marina has a lot going on...a bit like a condo yacht club.  Just some ideas to throw out there...

    http://bellemaerharbormarina.com/

    http://bellemaerharbormarina.com/wp-content/upload...

    http://bellemaerharbormarina.com/wp-content/upload...

    http://bellemaerharbormarina.com/marina-map/

  • Investor · Bensalem, PA · Member since 2011 · 146 posts · 93 votes
    9y

    Thanks everyone for the input, special thanks to @Jay Hinrichs.  @Account Closed Yeah the other nearby Restaurant is has a whole back story to it.  But bottom line that place is horrible all the way around.  Its truly a miracle its still open.  I'm not even exaggerating. 

    I have a few more ideas swirling in my head of what to do with this land.  Before I was ready to walk away, now I feel I have some realistic options to discuss with the owner.   We are having a 2nd sit down at end of week.  Hopefully he will take my deposit and my offer & terms.  I'll keep ya posted :-).

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    Good luck with it.. just remember how dog tough the restaurant business is...

  • Investor · Bensalem, PA · Member since 2011 · 146 posts · 93 votes
    9y

    Update .  The owner and I have gotten to know one another really well.  We had a tail of a twister come through the area a week ago, and sure enough it went through the Marina and caused a lot of damage (docks, powerline telephone polls etc. )  So he's now twice as motivated before.  Spoke to an appraiser, that does land and Marinas, and gave me some good advice as far as the permits and zoning without getting too deep.  So next week we have our final sit down, see if we can hash out some realistic #'s and keep this train moving forward.  Again will keep you updated, thank you everyone!

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