To Do or Not To Do - HVAC Converson on 7-Unit Building in Chicago

To Do or Not To Do - HVAC Converson on 7-Unit Building in Chicago

Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 72 posts · 12 votes

Let's see if I can keep this short and sweet. I just closed on a 7-unit building in Chicago for a very good price. My biggest and most expensive decision is whether or not to convert the massive boiler/radiator system that heats the whole building at my expense. 

The building is currently comprised of 3 occupied units with great tenants. They're under market rent but they're on-time and will incur a rent increase soon once I fix a couple small issues in the units. The top two units are occupied by tenants that are NOT paying rent and have not for the last year or more. I have already given them 30 day notices and will end up doing cash-for-keys with them.  2 units are thus vacant. The bill for the gas can vary anywhere between $178-$1700. This is obviously a summer vs winter cost done for the last year of service. One detail is that Chicago had a pretty mild winter last year (same this year). The second detail is that the thermostat is regularly set to 85 degrees (first thing to change on my end). What the previous owner did was put the building on a budget plan, which results in each bill (summer or winter) being an average of the yearly use. So I could do work on the boiler to make sure it's as efficient as possible, make sure all the radiators are functioning, and make sure the thermostat is always set to a reasonable temperature. 

The boiler itself is not in great shape but is running strong (pumps out 840,000 BTUs!!!  The cost to replace such a unit is $40k-$50k. 

The three bids that I've received for installing high-efficiency Rheem furnaces in the units have hovered around $8500 all in (run electrical, gas, furnace purchase, ducting, AC coil for later use, AC line to roof, and then soffit installation to hide the ducting). One could say that I could repay the installation of the HVAC units in 5yrs and with the rent increase could do it a bit faster. 

In my opinion I have three options and hoping you pros have some great ideas:

1) Hiring a professional commercial boiler expert to thoroughly clean the boiler and go through the whole system with a fine tooth comb.

2) Do the HVAC conversion in the soon to be 4 empty units and keep the boiler working for the remaining occupied 3 units. 

3) Do the HVAC conversion in each unit one at a time and when I get to the units that are occupied I'd offer them the other units to sleep in or perhaps rent them a temporary place to live. 

THANK YOU!

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Crystal SmithPro Member
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Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
My 1st reaction is the quoted costs to replace the boiler and the costs to convert to forced air seems high. We'd do the following: 1. Keep the boiler for now and reduce the temperature. 85 degrees is outrageous. With the budget billing you at least have your cost somewhat fixed. Nothing worse than variable costs for a business 2. Convert empty units to forced air w/ plan to convert other units as they become vacant Bottom line: if you plan to hold for a long time the conversion will eventually put $ in your pocket. It will also make the building more valuable in the long run for a future sale
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  • Contractor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 32 posts · 9 votes
    9y

    Hi, I'm in Chicago as well. Most of the investors that I know who have purchased multi-unit buildings convert the units into forced air (furance) where each apartment has its own furnace, hot water tank, and central air unit. They also have separate electrical meters. The investors do this in an effort to have the tenants pay for their own utilities... I'm a contractor so if you need help, just email me. Thanks and Good Luck!

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 515 posts · 247 votes
    9y

    Are you certain that the boiler would cost 40-50K?  I only deal with 2-4 units, but in my experience, boilers are generally around 10K for 2-4 units.  It seems strange to me that an additional 3 units would cause a boiler to cost 4-5 times as much.  

  • Rental Property Investor · Salem, OR · Member since 2016 · 202 posts · 305 votes
    9y

    @Edouard Pierre I have recently installed a couple of mini split systems, LOVE THEM. Install  separate mini splits on each unit

  • Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 72 posts · 12 votes
    9y

    @Jeff Burdick this is a pretty massive 7 unit building. Each unit is 1400 sqft. I'll look into it in more detail in regards to the price of replacement. The big question in my mind is what's the best move here. Having had easy winters in the last two years in Chicago...the gas bill could exceed $2000+. With these kinds of bills the forced air option looks desireble. Big upfront investment but there goes bills, upkeep, and headaches. 

  • Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y
    Edouard Pierre If you'll have to go out of pocket for a new boiler I'd definitely opt for the HVAC systems for each unit individually metered. If you buy-and-hold for the long term it will pay off. If you have to unexpectedly sell sooner it's going to be more attractive to an investor to have tenant paid utilities. Either way there's a potential upside (assuming you have the capital).
  • Investor · ARLINGTON HEIGHTS, IL · Member since 2016 · 48 posts · 8 votes
    9y

    I AM A ENERGY BUILDER NEW WINDOWS AND FURNACES IS WHAT I WOULD DO. NEW FURNACES ARE SO CHEAP TO RUN THESE DAYS. PUT THE BOILER TO BED. MAKE THE UPGRADE. SELL THE BOILER TO A SCRAPER HE WILL PROBALLY REMOVE THEM FOR FREE. GET 5 BIDS ON HVAC. I CAN HELP YOU VERY CHEAP TO DO THIS.

  • Crystal SmithPro Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    My 1st reaction is the quoted costs to replace the boiler and the costs to convert to forced air seems high. We'd do the following: 1. Keep the boiler for now and reduce the temperature. 85 degrees is outrageous. With the budget billing you at least have your cost somewhat fixed. Nothing worse than variable costs for a business 2. Convert empty units to forced air w/ plan to convert other units as they become vacant Bottom line: if you plan to hold for a long time the conversion will eventually put $ in your pocket. It will also make the building more valuable in the long run for a future sale
  • Contractor · Romeoville, IL · Member since 2015 · 198 posts · 137 votes
    9y

    Have you spoken to the city yet? If so, what did the inspector say? I am impressed you are getting 7 furnaces, duct work, line sets and building soffits for $8500.00. I mean wow! Typically its a $40-$60k conversion cost for a typical 6 flat with a basement unit under permit in the Chicago building I have seen done. If you have a guy that cheap, do share :)

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 515 posts · 247 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Robert Leach:

    Have you spoken to the city yet? If so, what did the inspector say? I am impressed you are getting 7 furnaces, duct work, line sets and building soffits for $8500.00. I mean wow! Typically its a $40-$60k conversion cost for a typical 6 flat with a basement unit under permit in the Chicago building I have seen done. If you have a guy that cheap, do share :)

     I might be wrong, but I interpreted his post as to say it was $8500 per unit.  So roughly 55K for all of them.  

  • Flipper/Rehabber · River Forest, IL · Member since 2016 · 85 posts · 42 votes
    9y

    Put in a ductless mini split system that is (hopefully) metered to each unit individually. Assuming a cost to install of $5,000 per unit and an annual energy cost savings to you now that tenant pays heat of $12,000 and a 9% cap rate, you would be about $98,000 ahead. (12,000/9%=133,000) May not need to build soffits for ducting everywhere either. I don't know this to be true, but I think there is a very good chance the manufacturer would finance it too. See: http://www.mitsubishicomfort.com/rebates-and-finan...

  • Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 72 posts · 12 votes
    9y

    @Robert Leach The whole conversion would be $60k. That's without a furnace in the second basement utility room/garden unit. 

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