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Updated 14 days ago,
If you had one question for a professional Syndicator, what would it be??
If you had one question for a professional Syndicator, what would it be??
Now is your shot to ask! Brian Burke has acquired over half a billion dollars’ worth of real estate over a 30-year career, including thousands of multifamily units and more than 700 single-family homes, with the assistance of proprietary software that he wrote himself. Though he prefers to reposition existing multifamily properties, he has also subdivided land, built homes, and constructed self-storage. So he has a ton of experience in all types of Syndications, raising capital, and he literally wrote the book on passive investing The Hands-off Investor - The Insiders Guide to Investing in Passive Real Estate Syndications. To celebrate BiggerPockets book sale happening NOW Brian is answering your questions!!
Want to get more of your questions answered about investing in real estate in a truly passive way? Check out Brian's book The Hands-off Investor on sale THIS WEEKEND for Black Friday. Get your copy at the best price ever, right now here!
What are the best terms to negotiate on the banknote after you have raised your target equity?
How much time do you devote to your investing? I understand that starting out, depending on how fast you want to build your portfolio, you could spend a lot of time at it.
For those with established investment portfolios, how much time is required to maintain it? Is this your full time 40 hour per week job? How free are you to do other things in your life?
Thanks!
I have been doing some due-diligence on apartment syndication deals. From what I have read and heard, a conservative underwriter should project the exit cap rate at least 50 to 200 bps higher than the purchase cap rate. I have however come across a few deals where the sponsor purchased the property at a much higher cap rate (around 7.3) than the market cap rate (around 6.4) and then projected the exit cap rate at around 6.8 (which is higher than the market cap rate but lower than the entry cap rate). Their strategy is mostly value-ad. Would you consider that conservative or aggressive when analyzing a deal from a passive investor standpoint?
Hope that question made some sense.
Nik
I'm looking to buy medium to large-scale value-add multifamily using OPM.
I am wondering if my first steps (past the education part) is to build a network of people who know, like, and trust me through posting content like newsletters, articles, podcasts, doing webinars, going to events (aka build my brand), or, should I first find a deal and then raise capital?
The reason why I ask is because I'm sure some people are going to say it is critical to first build a network but I find myself doubting myself because why would someone listen to advice from a 21 year old who has never bought a deal before? Also, I am connected with a lot of sophisticated investors on Linkedin and I don't want to lose their respect because I am starting to post educational content when I have never done any transactions.
What do you think? Am I overthinking?
Quote from @Rene Hosman:
If you had one question for a professional Syndicator, what would it be??
Now is your shot to ask! Brian Burke has acquired over half a billion dollars’ worth of real estate over a 30-year career, including thousands of multifamily units and more than 700 single-family homes, with the assistance of proprietary software that he wrote himself. Though he prefers to reposition existing multifamily properties, he has also subdivided land, built homes, and constructed self-storage. So he has a ton of experience in all types of Syndications, raising capital, and he literally wrote the book on passive investing The Hands-off Investor - The Insiders Guide to Investing in Passive Real Estate Syndications. To celebrate BiggerPockets book sale happening NOW Brian is answering your questions!!
Want to get more of your questions answered about investing in real estate in a truly passive way? Check out Brian's book The Hands-off Investor on sale THIS WEEKEND for Black Friday. Get your copy at the best price ever, right now here!
- Investor
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Quote from @Nicholas Burch:
What are the best terms to negotiate on the banknote after you have raised your target equity?
Nicholas, it depends on what you are buying. If the deal is residential 1-4 units, I'd aim for 30-year fixed-rate debt. You lock in your interest rate and if rates drop you can prepay at any time and refinance at a lower rate without penalty.
If the deal is commercial, whether commercial multifamily (5+ units), office, industrial, self storage, hotel, you name it...the choice becomes far more difficult. Shop around for debt to see what is available and model the various structures to see how the different terms impact performance.
The tradeoffs will be fixed vs. floating rate, conventional vs bridge vs CMBS vs bank vs agency. Maturities tend to be 3, 5, 7, or 10 years. The longer the better, but keep in mind that many of these structures have severe prepayment penalties so using 10 year debt for a 3-year hold creates a problem. But shorter term debt greatly amplifies risk.
For commercial multifamily, my personal preference is agency 10-year floating-rate debt. You don't have short-term maturity risk, and you don't have prepayment penalty risk (just has a 1% exit fee). But you trade that for interest rate risk. In a rapidly-rising interest rate environment (such as we've recently experienced) that tradeoff may or may not pay off.
Unfortunately, in CRE finance there is no perfect financing vehicle and you can't eliminate risk--you must choose which risk you want.
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Quote from @Brett G.:
How much time do you devote to your investing? I understand that starting out, depending on how fast you want to build your portfolio, you could spend a lot of time at it.
For those with established investment portfolios, how much time is required to maintain it? Is this your full time 40 hour per week job? How free are you to do other things in your life?
Thanks!
Brett, managing syndications funded by other people's hard-earned capital is a serious responsibility and not a part-time job. When I first started in this business it was 7 days/week and 8-14 hour days. I could sometimes get in 5-7 days once a year for a vacation but I'd pay the price when I got back. That went on for at least the first ten years.
Ask anyone that has started and grown a successful business and they will probably tell you a similar story. Managing syndications is a business, just like any other, and requires the same level of dedication for it to be successful long-term.
But it gets better over time. As I built my team and delegated responsibilities I was able to achieve a better work/life balance. Even as my portfolio grew exponentially, my work/life balance continued to improve. Part of that is team, part is systems that create efficiency, and part is advances in technology that allow me to do things I could only dream of 30 years ago.
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Quote from @Nik Batra:
I have been doing some due-diligence on apartment syndication deals. From what I have read and heard, a conservative underwriter should project the exit cap rate at least 50 to 200 bps higher than the purchase cap rate. I have however come across a few deals where the sponsor purchased the property at a much higher cap rate (around 7.3) than the market cap rate (around 6.4) and then projected the exit cap rate at around 6.8 (which is higher than the market cap rate but lower than the entry cap rate). Their strategy is mostly value-ad. Would you consider that conservative or aggressive when analyzing a deal from a passive investor standpoint?
Hope that question made some sense.
Nik
Nik, with all due respect to whoever gave you that advice, I disagree. Entry cap rate is absolutely meaningless. Participants in the commercial real estate space could do themselves a lot of favors by forgetting entirely the concept of purchase cap rate.
Cap rate has only one useful purpose--and that is to estimate the price in which the property may sell for at a later date. This has the obvious weakness of the unknown nature of future cap rates, but that's really the heart of your question here.
Estimating future cap rate is part art, part science. The science part is determining where market cap rates are today. Sale comps are a good start. The art part is adjusting today's market cap rate to a future year. There are a lot of opinions on how to do this--some say adding 50 to 200 bps to today's market cap rate, some say adding 0.1% per year, others say something else.
I suppose that's a good start, but doesn't really account for much. I'll give you a couple of examples. When the market was in the toilet after the great financial collapse, multifamily cap rates were in the 6-8% range. I was forecasting exit cap rates lower than current market cap rates. The theory: the market would be better when it was time to sell the asset. A better market meant lower cap rates. That bet came true.
Around 2020-2021 it was a seller's market and everything was getting a dozen or more offers. Cap rates had plummeted into the 4% range for multifamily. I was forecasting 5-year exit caps around 1% higher than current market cap rates (for perspective, that's a 25% decline in value). The theory: the market was about as good as it gets, and when it's time to sell, the market will probably be worse. Turns out the theory was right, but the decline has been even steeper.
You might be able to predict whether a future market will be better or worse than the current one, but predicting how much worse or better is nearly impossible.
And don't even get me started on how sponsors could be manipulating purchase cap rate, whether intentionally or unintentionally, by reporting pro-forma caps, non tax-adjusted NOI, and so on. If a sponsor is touting a 7.3 entry cap in a 6.4 cap market, I'd be digging really deep into how that 7.3 was calculated, and how that 6.4 was substantiated. This math implies that the property is being purchased at a 14% discount to current market value. Certainly not impossible, but the multifamily market (especially for larger properties) is pretty active and below-market purchases, while possible, don't happen as often as they might in the smaller property space.
Pro tip: If you still like the idea of purchase cap rate, use stabilized yield on cost instead. I defined that in the Hands-Off Investor. It's so much more meaningful than cap rate.
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Quote from @Lorenzo L.:
I'm looking to buy medium to large-scale value-add multifamily using OPM.
I am wondering if my first steps (past the education part) is to build a network of people who know, like, and trust me through posting content like newsletters, articles, podcasts, doing webinars, going to events (aka build my brand), or, should I first find a deal and then raise capital?
The reason why I ask is because I'm sure some people are going to say it is critical to first build a network but I find myself doubting myself because why would someone listen to advice from a 21 year old who has never bought a deal before? Also, I am connected with a lot of sophisticated investors on Linkedin and I don't want to lose their respect because I am starting to post educational content when I have never done any transactions.
What do you think? Am I overthinking?
Lorenzo, I started investing in real estate when I was 20. So I was then where you are now. Do yourself and your investors a favor--don't raise money from people and buy an apartment building right now. Forget about posting content. Your content will be based on your experience--that is what adds value to the reader, and you don't have experience yet.
Instead, focus on building a track record. There are different approaches to this: you could go to work for a large PE firm starting at their entry-level rung on the ladder and working your way up. You could go into brokerage and sell properties, working your way up to brokering commercial properties. Or if you are more entrepreneurial, you could start investing in small properties. Buy a house to flip. Buy rentals. Make some profits. Keep track of every property--the address, purchase price/date, sale price/date, profit, rent at purchase, rent at sale, cost to renovate, take before and after pictures. Anything and everything that you can do to show others (and prove to them) that you have a talent for selecting properties and producing actual results.
If you do that, people will take notice. As you post about what you are doing people will see it. As you buy and sell, people will enter your network. At some point, people will start asking if they can be a part of what you are doing. Some will want to be on your team, and some will want to split profits with you in exchange for funding your deals. This will build naturally and organically.
When I started, I had nothing, knew nothing, and knew no one. It took me ten years and dozens of deals to syndicate my first investment with investor money--and even then all my investors were co-workers that invested because they knew me and had seen what I was doing.
Since, I've bought almost a billion dollars of real estate. I've never advertised for money, I don't mass market. People come to me to invest because I've shown over several decades that I can produce results, and when the market doesn't go our way and results are difficult to produce, I've shown that I can achieve the best outcome possible and weather storms without losing people's money. That's what you want to show them.
It will take time, it will take work, it will take dedication. The payoff is worth it.
Quote from @Brian Burke:
Quote from @Lorenzo L.:
I'm looking to buy medium to large-scale value-add multifamily using OPM.
I am wondering if my first steps (past the education part) is to build a network of people who know, like, and trust me through posting content like newsletters, articles, podcasts, doing webinars, going to events (aka build my brand), or, should I first find a deal and then raise capital?
The reason why I ask is because I'm sure some people are going to say it is critical to first build a network but I find myself doubting myself because why would someone listen to advice from a 21 year old who has never bought a deal before? Also, I am connected with a lot of sophisticated investors on Linkedin and I don't want to lose their respect because I am starting to post educational content when I have never done any transactions.
What do you think? Am I overthinking?
Lorenzo, I started investing in real estate when I was 20. So I was then where you are now. Do yourself and your investors a favor--don't raise money from people and buy an apartment building right now. Forget about posting content. Your content will be based on your experience--that is what adds value to the reader, and you don't have experience yet.
Instead, focus on building a track record. There are different approaches to this: you could go to work for a large PE firm starting at their entry-level rung on the ladder and working your way up. You could go into brokerage and sell properties, working your way up to brokering commercial properties. Or if you are more entrepreneurial, you could start investing in small properties. Buy a house to flip. Buy rentals. Make some profits. Keep track of every property--the address, purchase price/date, sale price/date, profit, rent at purchase, rent at sale, cost to renovate, take before and after pictures. Anything and everything that you can do to show others (and prove to them) that you have a talent for selecting properties and producing actual results.
If you do that, people will take notice. As you post about what you are doing people will see it. As you buy and sell, people will enter your network. At some point, people will start asking if they can be a part of what you are doing. Some will want to be on your team, and some will want to split profits with you in exchange for funding your deals. This will build naturally and organically.
When I started, I had nothing, knew nothing, and knew no one. It took me ten years and dozens of deals to syndicate my first investment with investor money--and even then all my investors were co-workers that invested because they knew me and had seen what I was doing.
Since, I've bought almost a billion dollars of real estate. I've never advertised for money, I don't mass market. People come to me to invest because I've shown over several decades that I can produce results, and when the market doesn't go our way and results are difficult to produce, I've shown that I can achieve the best outcome possible and weather storms without losing people's money. That's what you want to show them.
It will take time, it will take work, it will take dedication. The payoff is worth it.
Thank you Brian, I really appreciate the feedback and this is what I will do.
My plan is to get a job when I graduate to not only get that experience but also cover my livign expenses while building a portfolio on the side.
In terms of buying my first deal, I haven't been able to move the needle because, where I am, for example, small multifamily is trading at around 5.5% caps and rates are 6.5% . I am cold calling owners and they are just laughing at me with my offers at 8% caps. But still, there are transactions at 5 caps. How are people buying at 5 caps if rates are 6.5?
- Investor
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Quote from @Greg Kasmer:
Quote from @Rene Hosman:
If you had one question for a professional Syndicator, what would it be??
Now is your shot to ask! Brian Burke has acquired over half a billion dollars’ worth of real estate over a 30-year career, including thousands of multifamily units and more than 700 single-family homes, with the assistance of proprietary software that he wrote himself. Though he prefers to reposition existing multifamily properties, he has also subdivided land, built homes, and constructed self-storage. So he has a ton of experience in all types of Syndications, raising capital, and he literally wrote the book on passive investing The Hands-off Investor - The Insiders Guide to Investing in Passive Real Estate Syndications. To celebrate BiggerPockets book sale happening NOW Brian is answering your questions!!
Want to get more of your questions answered about investing in real estate in a truly passive way? Check out Brian's book The Hands-off Investor on sale THIS WEEKEND for Black Friday. Get your copy at the best price ever, right now here!
Greg, I navigated the last two years the easy way--I haven't bought anything (actually haven't bought anything in 3 years). My investment focus is large multifamily properties and that market has been falling since 2Q2022--in my estimation prices are down 30-40 percent. I've found no investable thesis during this time--my plan was and still is to watch it crumble from the sidelines and then get back in after a bottom has been somewhat defined.
A little over a year before the market collapsed I started selling--and during that time I sold 3/4 of my portfolio. That timing certainly worked out, but I do still have around a thousand units. Fortunately I stopped borrowing on bridge debt a very long time ago so I've managed to avoid some of the distress you are seeing today as these bridge loans are maturing. I do have floating rate agency debt, however, and rising rates coupled with lack of rent growth has been a drag on cash flow. While that's certainly not ideal, my leverage was low to start with and my loan maturities were ten years so I have staying power to sell into a better market.
Looking ahead, anything I'd buy would have to cash flow out of the gate in a higher-rate climate. That means positive leverage and that isn't where sellers are today. That will change as the hope for lower rates diminishes, lenders get more assertive on maturities, and sponsors run out of time and money. I'm starting to see a little of that lately.
- Investor
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Quote from @Lorenzo L.:
In terms of buying my first deal, I haven't been able to move the needle because, where I am, for example, small multifamily is trading at around 5.5% caps and rates are 6.5% . I am cold calling owners and they are just laughing at me with my offers at 8% caps. But still, there are transactions at 5 caps. How are people buying at 5 caps if rates are 6.5?
The easy answer is the smart buyers aren't. But that's an oversimplification--there are probably some very smart people that bought some of these deals. They are making a bet that interest rates will come down soon and they can refinance at a lower rate. Or they are betting that there will be a return of runaway rent growth. Or both. If they are right, their bet will pay off. If they are wrong, well, you can buy that deal from them (or their lender after they foreclose) a year or two or three from now for less than they paid...
By the way, there is nothing wrong with buying a single family home or duplex--my first deal was a mobile home. Find a good deal and get some real estate experience--don't focus so much on that real estate having to fit some specific profile. Investment quality is all that matters as you build the foundation for your track record.
@Brian Burke that’s the stage I’m at! Everything you saying is echoing what I believe.
Accountant by day 9-5 and own about 13 units between a few buildings with my lady and recently got into fix/flip in order to scale.
Sounds dead on.
When did real estate become simpler for you in your process? Was it after ten years? Or after you reached a certain capital/profit amount?
- Investor
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@Tramaine Robinson I can’t pinpoint a moment in time where it “clicked,” but instead I’ve found a series of small victories that yielded improvements.
My first profit gave me confidence. My first self-developed software gave me efficiency. My first multifamily gave me scale. My first recession gave me resiliency (yes, even failures are victories).
After 25 years I felt that I really knew what I was doing. After 35 years I’ve developed a healthy respect for this business from the school of hard knocks.
The day I’ve discovered this business is easy or simple will be a good day to retire.
Quote from @Brian Burke:
Quote from @Greg Kasmer:
Quote from @Rene Hosman:
If you had one question for a professional Syndicator, what would it be??
Now is your shot to ask! Brian Burke has acquired over half a billion dollars’ worth of real estate over a 30-year career, including thousands of multifamily units and more than 700 single-family homes, with the assistance of proprietary software that he wrote himself. Though he prefers to reposition existing multifamily properties, he has also subdivided land, built homes, and constructed self-storage. So he has a ton of experience in all types of Syndications, raising capital, and he literally wrote the book on passive investing The Hands-off Investor - The Insiders Guide to Investing in Passive Real Estate Syndications. To celebrate BiggerPockets book sale happening NOW Brian is answering your questions!!
Want to get more of your questions answered about investing in real estate in a truly passive way? Check out Brian's book The Hands-off Investor on sale THIS WEEKEND for Black Friday. Get your copy at the best price ever, right now here!
Greg, I navigated the last two years the easy way--I haven't bought anything (actually haven't bought anything in 3 years). My investment focus is large multifamily properties and that market has been falling since 2Q2022--in my estimation prices are down 30-40 percent. I've found no investable thesis during this time--my plan was and still is to watch it crumble from the sidelines and then get back in after a bottom has been somewhat defined.
A little over a year before the market collapsed I started selling--and during that time I sold 3/4 of my portfolio. That timing certainly worked out, but I do still have around a thousand units. Fortunately I stopped borrowing on bridge debt a very long time ago so I've managed to avoid some of the distress you are seeing today as these bridge loans are maturing. I do have floating rate agency debt, however, and rising rates coupled with lack of rent growth has been a drag on cash flow. While that's certainly not ideal, my leverage was low to start with and my loan maturities were ten years so I have staying power to sell into a better market.
Looking ahead, anything I'd buy would have to cash flow out of the gate in a higher-rate climate. That means positive leverage and that isn't where sellers are today. That will change as the hope for lower rates diminishes, lenders get more assertive on maturities, and sponsors run out of time and money. I'm starting to see a little of that lately.
- Investor
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Quote from @Greg Kasmer:
Greg, the things I'm looking for as clues to a bottom:
1. Sentiment: I want to see more people hate real estate. Syndications don't get funded because investors think they are toxic. More syndicators go out of business and wind up in foreclosure and/or lawsuits to enforce loan guarantees. Sellers worried they won't be able to sell in time before their lender takes action. That type of stuff.
2. Interest rates: I don't really care where interest rates go--I just want to have some way to figure out where they are going. Right now they are "high" (compared to 2020) and people "think" they are going lower. But will they? There's an equal chance they stay here and even a shot they go higher. If the consensus is that they are flat or higher, properties will be priced accordingly. Now they are priced such that rates must go lower in order for the deals to work, and I'm not convinced that reality will support that bet.
3. Cap rates: Cap rates have been expanding, but sellers think they will tighten. A lot of buyers think that too. But if borrowing costs remain high and interest rates don't fall as many people expect, cap rates will have to decompress further. I'd like to have more certainty as to that first.
4. Construction: Deliveries are at record highs. I'd like to see those normalize. It's starting to happen already.
5. Rent growth: This has been flat to negative lately. A growing income stream is worth more--so I'd like to see growth so that there is a path to profit. Once construction moderates and the inventory glut gets absorbed we'll probably see rent growth. 2026 probably?
A lot of this, 3 & 4 especially, is geographic-dependent. Some markets never saw much construction, and some still have rent growth. But they still suffer from interest rates and market sentiment factors.
- Rental Property Investor
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Quote from @Nik Batra:
I have been doing some due-diligence on apartment syndication deals. From what I have read and heard, a conservative underwriter should project the exit cap rate at least 50 to 200 bps higher than the purchase cap rate. I have however come across a few deals where the sponsor purchased the property at a much higher cap rate (around 7.3) than the market cap rate (around 6.4) and then projected the exit cap rate at around 6.8 (which is higher than the market cap rate but lower than the entry cap rate). Their strategy is mostly value-ad. Would you consider that conservative or aggressive when analyzing a deal from a passive investor standpoint?
Hope that question made some sense.
Nik
Always base the exit cap on the current market, not the purchase cap rate. This goes both ways. I have seen sponsors say they're conservative and showing a 50 bps increase in cap rate on a deal they bought at a 4.2 cap, but the market was at a 5 cap.
I would ask this, when raising capital for a real estate syndication, what strategies have you found most effective for building trust and credibility with first-time passive investors? Are there specific tools, presentations, or approaches that help them feel more confident in taking that first step? Thanks!
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Quote from @Dominic Mazzarella:
I would ask this, when raising capital for a real estate syndication, what strategies have you found most effective for building trust and credibility with first-time passive investors? Are there specific tools, presentations, or approaches that help them feel more confident in taking that first step? Thanks!
This doesn't mean "selling from the stage", but instead, sharing actionable, useful information that I've gleaned from my many years of experience and from my own research. Being a subject matter expert, not because you are forcing it, but because you simply ARE, shows through, and investors are rightfully attracted to that.
Quote from @Brian Burke:
Quote from @Dominic Mazzarella:
I would ask this, when raising capital for a real estate syndication, what strategies have you found most effective for building trust and credibility with first-time passive investors? Are there specific tools, presentations, or approaches that help them feel more confident in taking that first step? Thanks!
This doesn't mean "selling from the stage", but instead, sharing actionable, useful information that I've gleaned from my many years of experience and from my own research. Being a subject matter expert, not because you are forcing it, but because you simply ARE, shows through, and investors are rightfully attracted to that.
That's a very solid, actionable response. Thank you Brian!
Brian,
Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions.
Two questions for you:
When you look back at your career- what memories bring you the most joy?
And looking forward, what's next for you?
- Investor
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@Obed Calixte The memories that bring me joy from a career perspective are the times when I've had the good fortune of delivering an above-projection return after a successful investment round trip. Especially the ones where I had doubters saying it couldn't be done or my strategy was wrong.
What's next? I haven't bought anything in over 3 years--instead I've been watching the multifamily market implode mostly from the sidelines, except for the thousand or so units that I still have. What is next is getting back in the market and creating more opportunity for our clients to ride the next market upcycle.
Quote from @Brian Burke:
@Obed Calixte The memories that bring me joy from a career perspective are the times when I've had the good fortune of delivering an above-projection return after a successful investment round trip. Especially the ones where I had doubters saying it couldn't be done or my strategy was wrong.
What's next? I haven't bought anything in over 3 years--instead I've been watching the multifamily market implode mostly from the sidelines, except for the thousand or so units that I still have. What is next is getting back in the market and creating more opportunity for our clients to ride the next market upcycle.
Heard.
Thank you for sharing!
- Lender
- The Woodlands, TX
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I have 40 years experience as a real estate syndicator/sponsor and investor in other syndicators deals. I read Brian’s book and still learned more than a few things. Excellent book !
- Don Konipol
Would you skip the 700+ single family houses and scale up faster into multi-family?