Rates for property management? Growing quickly, need a little advice...

Rates for property management? Growing quickly, need a little advice...

Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2013 · 21 posts · 4 votes

Hello All,

Time to jump in and start posting - I have been lurking around the forums for quite some time.

A bit of background - I bought my first duplex a little less than 3 years ago, and have since bought 2 more duplexes, and just closed on a 7-plex. All are in the Seattle area. I has been pretty amazing to see how the business is growing, and I am starting to realize that I am going to be focusing on multi-units pretty intensively over the next few years.

Which leads to my question - what is an acceptable rate to pay a property manager? I am currently working with a very capable person who was inexperienced when she first started managing my first duplex, but has grown very capable now that we have just closed on the 4th property. To date, I have been paying her by the hour, but am realizing that this is going to quickly become way too expensive.

I am thinking about offering her 6% of gross rents per month, and a 70% commission on filling vacant units (i.e. if a $1,000 unit is filled by her, she would receive a $700 bonus). Is this percentage fair, given that she is now managing 13 units for me?

Any advice people have would be deeply appreciated.

Thanks all!

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  • Investor · Snohomish, WA · Member since 2013 · 629 posts · 84 votes
    12y

    Micah,

    That fee is fair. I manage a couple properties which I am partial owner of and take 10% gross with no commission on leasing.

    Check out our REI meetup: http://www.meetup.com/SnoCo-Connected-Real-Estate-Investors/

    I own multi in Snohomish County and do commercial/multi brokerage all over WA so spend a lot of time analyzing deals in Seattle.

    Welcome to BP!

  • Roy N.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y

    @Micah Truman

    PM fees will vary by area and most follow the same pattern: a percentage (7-10%) of revenue (most include laundry, parking, etc along with basic rent); lease-up fees (1/2 - 1 months rent); renewal fees; markups and management on renovations/maintenance, etc. As with many things, the bigger your portfolio, the lower your rate.

    We do have a new company here who takes a different approach which claims to align their remuneration with the owners business objectives. I have yet to meet with them as I want to give them a bit of time in the market to see how they perform.

    We are still relatively small 18-units, but continue to self-manage because none of the existing PM companies have impressed me, nor do they exhibit a performance that matches our own. Our present plan is to groom an in-house property manager (we've already started) who will become a full time employee once we reach a sufficient size (somewhere between 25 & 35 units).

  • Contractor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2013 · 767 posts · 389 votes
    12y

    I think I might follow what Roy was talking about depending on how big you are intending to get too. Pay somebody a decent wage to manage your properties. I would think it's cheaper in the long run.

  • Jean BolgerPro Member
    Aurora, CO · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    6% strikes me as low for only 13 units. As Roy said, it tends to be the bigger the portfolio the lower the rate. But if you're still training her and still do some of the stuff yourself then it might be fair...

    Also- a large lease-up fee has the potential to be an incentive to increase turnover. Not saying that they would intentionally do this- a turnover is a lot of work for the PM, but if they're looking at getting $60 for reupping the current tenants vs $700 for getting new ones then there's just not as much incentive to keep tenants long term.
    I would lean more towards offering the straight 10%/no fees that Zach mentioned.

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    12y

    Big PM companies typically do 5% but that is at 40 to 50 unit complex or larger.

    The fee can go higher if the complex or buildings are located in a rougher area of town. Tenants there usually have to collect on multiple times for total rent and are constantly putting out issues. A good PM company will look at how much work will go in to the managing and area before quoting a rate. Your manager might be able to handle it now but you will need a larger structure as you grow. A few big buildings miles apart for 100 units total is different than 12 buildings spread out all over that make up 100. Sounds like you both didn't have much experience when starting out and took a chance on each other and it has worked out so far. The PM would benefit from taking IREM.org classes. There are specific classes for 1 -49 units and then managing 50 units plus that would be helpful in planning structure for growth.

  • Real Estate Investor · Kirkland, WA · Member since 2012 · 480 posts · 116 votes
    12y

    @Micah Truman

    Welcome to BP. I'm up in Kirkland. Nice to see another local jump in. Sounds like things are moving along quite well for you. Look forward to hearing more of your advice and experience on the BP forums.

  • Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2013 · 21 posts · 4 votes
    12y

    Thanks to all, this has all been very helpful!

    Jean - I take your point about paying a fair wage.

    I am torn between a flat percentage of gross rents (10% seems to be the consensus) with no lease up bonus, and 7% of gross rents with a 50-100% lease up fee for each vacant unit filled.

    I am leaning towards to flat 10%. As you say, paying a PM to fill vacancies does not necessarily invent them to keep tenants long term.

    Zach - Thanks for the advice - I would love to attend your REI get togethers when I move back to Seattle in June. Also very interested in learning more about your PM experience.

    Joel - Thanks for posting - I see your comments often, and appreciate you taking the time to post! I agree that I will be able to drop my PM payment percentage considerably, once we attain a little more size. The hope is to 1031 exchange the 3 duplexes this summer into a 15-20 unit building. That said, it a a sellers market in Seattle right now, so will need to see how things play out.

    Gerald - Looking forward to meeting all the Seattle based investors once I finally land in Seattle full time this June!

  • Real Estate Agent · Orem, UT · Member since 2012 · 164 posts · 49 votes
    12y

    The best deal I have ever had was 6% with a flat move-in rate. But I had 60 doors at the time, lol!

    Flat 10 sounds good to me

    Good luck to your endeavors!

    Stuart

  • Rental Property Investor · Everett, WA · Member since 2013 · 389 posts · 222 votes
    12y

    @Micah Truman

    Welcome to the forum. I live here in Seattle and invest and manage properties up in Everett. I charge a flat 10%. It provides a better incentive to manage the properties like they are my own.

    Where are your properties located?

  • Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2013 · 21 posts · 4 votes
    12y

    @Account Closed

    I have 2 duplexes near Northgate, 1 duplex on Sand Point way near Children's Hospital, and just purchased a 7-plex in Ballard.

    Just curious - does the flat 10% include managing repairs/improvements to the property, or is there an additional fee for those types of services?

  • Rental Property Investor · Everett, WA · Member since 2013 · 389 posts · 222 votes
    12y

    @Micah Truman

    For me, the 10% does include managing repairs and fixing minor repairs but major repairs are charged.

    For instance, when a repair is needed I will visit the unit and if I am able to fix it (clogged sink, new faucet, broken step, etc.) I will, free of charge. If it is a major repair (electrical, need a plumber, etc.) that will be charged straight to the owner with no mark up.

  • Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2013 · 21 posts · 4 votes
    12y

    @Account Closed

    Thanks Grant, very helpful!

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