How to vet a syndicator! Lets hear your methods

How to vet a syndicator! Lets hear your methods

Specialist · Member since 2021 · 322 posts · 273 votes

Hey BP Fam,

I work for an operator in the Midwest and wanted to provide some insight to passive investors on the kinds of questions I find the most useful. 

I am making the assumption you, the reader, have already done their homework in terms of what a syndication is, and the benefits of it.

The first step you should take when considering syndications is decide what your time horizon is, the market you want to hit, and find out what your investment return goals are. Many people find it overwhelming the number of operators to choose from so the point of deciding these things is to filter the ones that match up, to make it easier.

Once you have a list of operators that match your preferences, it is time to start contacting these companies. Comb through their sites and note how well the site is put together. Afterall, this is what they are using as the "face" of their company. If the website is not user friendly, is confusing, and looks outdated chances are they are not running a tight ship. 

Have a list of questions prepared based on their current offering, and track record. The questions are almost as important as how the person is articulating them. If the company has a representative unable or unwilling to answer certain questions, that should be a cause for concern. Questions should cover things like: What is the worst deal you have invested in and why, is your track record audited, why did the company start, what is the macro/micro strategy for the offering, can you show example proformas, what are your debt terms, what are the minimum investments, are you willing to provide an investor reference, how are you handling the current economic environment (inflation, rising rates, recession concerns etc).

The person you are talking to should be able to answer these questions without a hitch, and if they are unable to answer those questions without looking them up that says to me they are unprepared and are not trained well.  Once these steps are completed, you should have a company or two in mind. Ask to speak to someone higher up to firm up any final thoughts, and see how far the previous answers to your questions stray based on who you talk to. 

The things I would focus less on are: Splits or fee schedules. At the end of the day what is important is the return the investor is getting. Would you rather get 20% IRR and a larger piece of a smaller pie or 28% IRR with a smaller piece of a larger pie? At the end of the day, the return is all that matters for an investor and often I see investors choosing lower returns for the good feeling a better split or fee schedule brings. At the end of the day you are investing in a worse operator, with lower returns.

Comment what things you focus on when talking to an operator, curious to hear others thoughts!

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Investor · Batavia, IL · Member since 2014 · 99 posts · 81 votes
4y
Quote from @Melissa Robbins:

@Colton Hahn - What about past performance? How do you find the important metrics on deals they've already purchased and sold?  

I would also consider the decision around which management company will be managing the deal.  Are they going for low mgt fees or the best operators?  

What are your thoughts on 10 year holds?  Too long? 

 100% agree with @Melissa Robbins, What is the track record of the operator? How many full cycle deals have they done?

Are they new to a particular market or do they have extensive expertise operating there? Are they getting off-market projects?

Do they have their own property management and construction for renovation, or are they outsourcing this?

I am less concerned about their fees if they are in line with industry, but I want to know they have skin in the game and align with investors.

Lastly in this market, I would want to hear about their financing strategy, How leveraged they are on projects, and how conservative their underwriting is based on projections.

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  • Specialist · Austin, TX · Member since 2017 · 136 posts · 109 votes
    4y

    Some very good input!

    Worst deals and how the responded is a good one.

    Pick the operator first. it is the hardest part.

    Are the business plan assumptions overly aggressive or not ? ALL operators will say they are conservative, but that is not possible so some are confused... or worse.

    I differ some on the last item... to some extent as I see the points too. For sure the return is very important.

    " The things I would focus less on are: Splits or fee schedules. At the  end of the day what is important is the return the investor is getting.  Would you rather get 20% IRR and a larger piece of a smaller pie or 28% IRR with a smaller piece of a larger pie? At the end of the day, the return is all that matters for an investor and often I see investors choosing lower returns for the good feeling a better split or fee schedule brings. At the end of the day you are investing in a worse operator, with lower returns."

    Too many splits, hurdles, tiers, fees is an automatic alert flag for me. Projected IRRs are not worth the paper they are printed on, and it is impossible to invest in hindsight mode. Forward looking projections are always a risk gamble so putting weight on it too much can be potentially problematic.

    What to consider in splits, fees hurdles is who (what parties) has what at risk when you run a Stress Test / Sensitivity Analysis. How the OA is written will determine if you are selecting a deal that has better alignment of interest vs another. A few words can make all the difference so READ the dos carefully. If an operator gets paid day 1, & throughout, & handsomely at Refi and more at sale ( lump fees before you get a dime), andn then the promote; while it may be customary to some to have all, is it really aligned to the risks that you think you are taking? If you can see a path where the operator will just about never lose, but you can lose even on a technically profitable sale (seen it), the papers are not really aligned even if the parties really think they are. It's all good/ok in an up market, but can be very bad in storms.

  • Melissa RobbinsPro Member
    Investor · Denver CO · Member since 2020 · 63 posts · 37 votes
    4y

    @Colton Hahn - What about past performance? How do you find the important metrics on deals they've already purchased and sold?  

    I would also consider the decision around which management company will be managing the deal.  Are they going for low mgt fees or the best operators?  

    What are your thoughts on 10 year holds?  Too long? 

  • Investor · Batavia, IL · Member since 2014 · 99 posts · 81 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Melissa Robbins:

    @Colton Hahn - What about past performance? How do you find the important metrics on deals they've already purchased and sold?  

    I would also consider the decision around which management company will be managing the deal.  Are they going for low mgt fees or the best operators?  

    What are your thoughts on 10 year holds?  Too long? 

     100% agree with @Melissa Robbins, What is the track record of the operator? How many full cycle deals have they done?

    Are they new to a particular market or do they have extensive expertise operating there? Are they getting off-market projects?

    Do they have their own property management and construction for renovation, or are they outsourcing this?

    I am less concerned about their fees if they are in line with industry, but I want to know they have skin in the game and align with investors.

    Lastly in this market, I would want to hear about their financing strategy, How leveraged they are on projects, and how conservative their underwriting is based on projections.

  • Specialist · Member since 2021 · 322 posts · 273 votes
    4y
    Quote from @John Sayers:

    Some very good input!

    Worst deals and how the responded is a good one.

    Pick the operator first. it is the hardest part.

    Are the business plan assumptions overly aggressive or not ? ALL operators will say they are conservative, but that is not possible so some are confused... or worse.

    I differ some on the last item... to some extent as I see the points too. For sure the return is very important.

    " The things I would focus less on are: Splits or fee schedules. At the  end of the day what is important is the return the investor is getting.  Would you rather get 20% IRR and a larger piece of a smaller pie or 28% IRR with a smaller piece of a larger pie? At the end of the day, the return is all that matters for an investor and often I see investors choosing lower returns for the good feeling a better split or fee schedule brings. At the end of the day you are investing in a worse operator, with lower returns."

    Too many splits, hurdles, tiers, fees is an automatic alert flag for me. Projected IRRs are not worth the paper they are printed on, and it is impossible to invest in hindsight mode. Forward looking projections are always a risk gamble so putting weight on it too much can be potentially problematic.

    What to consider in splits, fees hurdles is who (what parties) has what at risk when you run a Stress Test / Sensitivity Analysis. How the OA is written will determine if you are selecting a deal that has better alignment of interest vs another. A few words can make all the difference so READ the dos carefully. If an operator gets paid day 1, & throughout, & handsomely at Refi and more at sale ( lump fees before you get a dime), andn then the promote; while it may be customary to some to have all, is it really aligned to the risks that you think you are taking? If you can see a path where the operator will just about never lose, but you can lose even on a technically profitable sale (seen it), the papers are not really aligned even if the parties really think they are. It's all good/ok in an up market, but can be very bad in storms.


     I think its fair to point out a disproportionate fee schedule or split especially if it is particularly egregious. I just personally would not live or die by that. 

    My main point with that section is I think it is not in the top 5 most important traits of a company, if a product is good and meets your criteria and the only trait for that company you do not 100% agree with is the fee schedule then you are more than likely settling elsewhere with another company.

  • Specialist · Member since 2021 · 322 posts · 273 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Melissa Robbins:

    @Colton Hahn - What about past performance? How do you find the important metrics on deals they've already purchased and sold?  

    I would also consider the decision around which management company will be managing the deal.  Are they going for low mgt fees or the best operators?  

    What are your thoughts on 10 year holds?  Too long? 


     Absolutely, track record is #1 in my mind. Having audited track records is even better :)

  • Specialist · Member since 2021 · 322 posts · 273 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Joe Archbold:
    Quote from @Melissa Robbins:

    @Colton Hahn - What about past performance? How do you find the important metrics on deals they've already purchased and sold?  

    I would also consider the decision around which management company will be managing the deal.  Are they going for low mgt fees or the best operators?  

    What are your thoughts on 10 year holds?  Too long? 

     100% agree with @Melissa Robbins, What is the track record of the operator? How many full cycle deals have they done?

    Are they new to a particular market or do they have extensive expertise operating there? Are they getting off-market projects?

    Do they have their own property management and construction for renovation, or are they outsourcing this?

    I am less concerned about their fees if they are in line with industry, but I want to know they have skin in the game and align with investors.

    Lastly in this market, I would want to hear about their financing strategy, How leveraged they are on projects, and how conservative their underwriting is based on projections.


     Having skin in the game, betting on their own product is a huge green flag!

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