Evicting Squatters

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Evicting Squatters

Kevin N.
Investor · philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 33 posts · 6 votes

Just got a REO property, the bank never evicted the original owner when the house got foreclosed. Cash for keys did not work. The only way to evict him legally now is go through the court systems but that could take 6 months to a year and $5000. Below are the steps i'm thinking of doing. Please give me the consequences for each of the steps below.

1. SQUATTING THE SQUATTER -Wait when he's not around, change lock, and move my stuff inside the house.  put an alarm on it. When he comes back and call the police and report him trespassing on my house.

2. HIRED A THUG  - Wait when he's not around and break all of the windows, cut wires, copper pipes  and make the house unlivable and too expensive to fix. That will force him out of the house.

3. GLUE THE LOCKS -  Wait when he's not around, put glue into the locks and keep doing it until it's too expensive for him to keep replacing the lock and eventually move out.

Thanks for the inputs !

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Patrick L.
Real Estate Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 951 votes
11y

All of the above items would be considered "self help eviction" and you would be liable for damages.  Many of those items would probably also result in criminal charges against you. Sounds fun but the law is not on your side until you go through the court system to legally remove the occupant.  This was something to consider prior to buying an occupied property if you were that concerned about how long it it would take and how much it would cost you. 

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  • Patrick L.
    Real Estate Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 951 votes
    11y

    All of the above items would be considered "self help eviction" and you would be liable for damages.  Many of those items would probably also result in criminal charges against you. Sounds fun but the law is not on your side until you go through the court system to legally remove the occupant.  This was something to consider prior to buying an occupied property if you were that concerned about how long it it would take and how much it would cost you. 

    3Reply
  • Micah Copeland
    Wholesaler · Nashville, TN · Member since 2014 · 407 posts · 180 votes
    11y

    Ha! Interested in hearing the responses.... 

    4. Move the house when the tenant is not looking....

    On a serious note my answer would depend on the the rights the tenant has per your local laws. Without those I wouldn't know. Thats a real crappy situation and I wish you the best with it.

    0Reply
  • Marc M.
    Contractor · Rockville, MD · Member since 2014 · 423 posts · 135 votes
    11y

    I have no advice to offer but I like the way you think. 

    2Reply
  • Michael Paul
    Wholesaler · Marysville, WA · Member since 2014 · 13 posts · 0 votes
    11y

    Pay him to leave!?

    0Reply
  • Ron S.
    Paradise, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 871 votes
    11y

    I'd probably edit this post in case your self help eviction causes him to look for help on line, he finds this forum and your post about the ilegal eviction.

    2Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 688 votes
    11y
    Option 2
    0Reply
  • Steve Babiak
    Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    11y

    You are in PA, so you would have to file an ejectment action (not a simpler landlord-tenant eviction). Involves a lawsuit with the court at a higher level than the magistrate (magistrate handles evictions).

    But there's another secret. Starting in mid April, the public utilities are allowed to do shut offs again (end of the winter moratorium).  Lack of power will often cause them to go. If they haven't paid electric, PECO will proceed with shut off; and if outside the Phila city limits, PECO will also shut off the natural gas for non-payment. And I suspect these occupants haven't paid utilities, but if they are current on their utilities, they won't get shut off. 

    2Reply
  • Kevin N.
    OP
    Investor · philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 33 posts · 6 votes
    11y
    Yes this is in Philadelphia. So in mid April I could shut off the water without any problems? I tried to offer him money but he knows that if he sticks around it would be at least 5 free months of free rents. What Im curious is if I do the steps above would the cops arrested right away after he called the cops or does he have to sue me to get me arrested?
    0Reply
  • Patrick L.
    Real Estate Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 951 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Kevin N.:

    Yes this is in Philadelphia. So in mid April I could shut off the water without any problems?

    I tried to offer him money but he knows that if he sticks around it would be at least 5 free months of free rents.

    What Im curious is if I do the steps above would the cops arrested right away after he called the cops or does he have to sue me to get me arrested?

     No, you cannot shut off any utilities.  What Steve said is if the OCCUPANT hasn't paid their bills the utility company can shut them off.  Attempting to have the utilities shut off is an easy case for self help eviction.  

    You would be arrested for those actions you described just as easily as I would be if I randomly showed up at your house and did the same.  

    You probably didn't offer enough money, you need to make it somewhere less than what you'd spend to get them out and yet high enough to make it worth it for them to leave and give up the free rent.  At this point they know they might as well take as much free time as they can so unless you make a sizable offer why would anyone take it?   I'd probably start between $3-5k.  

    1Reply
  • Carlos M.
    Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 68 posts · 13 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Steve Babiak:

    You are in PA, so you would have to file an ejectment action (not a simpler landlord-tenant eviction). Involves a lawsuit with the court at a higher level than the magistrate (magistrate handles evictions).

    But there's another secret. Starting in mid April, the public utilities are allowed to do shut offs again (end of the winter moratorium).  Lack of power will often cause them to go. If they haven't paid electric, PECO will proceed with shut off; and if outside the Phila city limits, PECO will also shut off the natural gas for non-payment. And I suspect these occupants haven't paid utilities, but if they are current on their utilities, they won't get shut off. 

    @Steve Babiak is spot on I had the same issue with a sheriff's sale purchase and had to do an ejectment ...  the ejectment's office was located in city hall not at the eviction's office (Room 500, 34 South 11th) so you may want to double check that also .... here is a link with some additional information good luck  ...

    http://www.officeofphiladelphiasheriff.com/en/civil-division/eviction-process

    3Reply
  • Nicole A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y

    How do you know it could take up to 6 months to evict him legally?

    And why haven't you gone ahead and started that process already? Each day you wait is a day the process could have begun.

    1Reply
  • Richard C.
    Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Kevin N.:

    Yes this is in Philadelphia. So in mid April I could shut off the water without any problems?

    I tried to offer him money but he knows that if he sticks around it would be at least 5 free months of free rents.

    What Im curious is if I do the steps above would the cops arrested right away after he called the cops or does he have to sue me to get me arrested?

     He does not have to sue you to get you arrested.  Any of those three "options" are crimes, and at least one is a felony.  I hope you do it, and get tossed in jail.  Then there will be one less blight on the real estate investment community.

    0Reply
  • Nicole A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y

    Also, how are you so sure a proper eviction would cost you $5,000? Do you know the eviction process in that area?

    I did a quick Google search and found tons of info. The process seems pretty straight-foward that you could do it yourself or hire a company to handle it for you:

    http://www.evictionsunlimited.com/faq/

    http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/tenant-defe...

    http://www.baritzlaw.com/Real-Estate-Overview/Evic...

    http://www.wemanageyourtenants.com/#!overview-of-p...

    This was just from a very quick Google search. This isn't hard. Get to work.

    2Reply
  • Kevin N.
    OP
    Investor · philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 33 posts · 6 votes
    11y

    Thanks everyone!!! i was able to persuade the guy for cash for keys. :)

    1Reply
  • Chris McDaniel
    Investor · Crosby, TX · Member since 2014 · 124 posts · 72 votes
    11y

    @Kevin N. Torch the house and smoke em out! Just kidding, but I like the way you think. I had a similar situation awhile back. But since I live in Texas and there is no such thing as squatters rights, we got him out fairly easily. The utilities were in my tenants name and they agreed to have their utilities turned off. It doesn't take long for a house to warm up during a hot Texas summer day.

    3Reply
  • Kevin N.
    OP
    Investor · philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 33 posts · 6 votes
    11y

    Just a curiosity, if a squatter could come into your empty house and illegally took over your house. Why can't you squat back that house and let them go through the court system to evict you?

    0Reply
  • Justin Sadauskas
    Real Estate Agent · Washington Twp, MI · Member since 2015 · 27 posts · 4 votes
    11y

    I was hoping by squat the squatter you would move in with him.  $5,000 to evict is insane - possibly a state thing.  Seems like a big edge to find a good eviction attorney and then make offers to frustrated landlords.  In Michigan, evictions is like 1-2 months and 200-500 dollars.  

    0Reply
  • Nicole A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y

    @Kevin

    If there even is actually any "squatters rights", that person would have had to be there a long time. If you're checking on your place continually and come one week to find a guy in there, I'd think you'd just call the police about a trespasser. 

    Also, I'm still curious to hear where you heard that it costs $5K to evict.

    0Reply
  • Chris McDaniel
    Investor · Crosby, TX · Member since 2014 · 124 posts · 72 votes
    11y

    @Kevin N. I am just curious, how much did it cost you to get him out? I see everyone talk about cash for keys but is it usually $500 or $5000?

    0Reply
  • Nicole A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y

    Probably no more than $500, and even that seems pretty high to me.  $5000K cash for keys offer is ridiculous. 

    0Reply
  • Patrick L.
    Real Estate Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 951 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Nicole A.:

    Probably no more than $500, and even that seems pretty high to me.  $5000K cash for keys offer is ridiculous. 

     Banks routinely pay $3-5k on cash for keys offers.   Why would someone leave for $500 if they can live there rent free for a few months while you work on removing them?  He already said the occupant is the previous owner so his credit is already shot so why not get some free time out of the situation.....unless you offer enough where it's worth it to leave.   Here in Florida it's a pretty simple process to remove the occupant as long as it's the defendant in the foreclosure case but I know some other states are much harder.   No matter where you are you're going to have attorneys fees, filing fees, time, and the potential for the occupant to tear up the house.  

    2Reply
  • Nicole A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y

    Yeah, I suppose it depends on the situation. In my market, people would typically be quite happy with a lesser amount offered.

    There's always the potential for the person to tear up the house, but I think that doesn't happen quite as often as feared.

    As for attorney's fees, I've yet to pay those for an eviction. It's not that difficult of a process usually.

    0Reply
  • Patrick L.
    Real Estate Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 951 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Nicole A.:

    Yeah, I suppose it depends on the situation. In my market, people would typically be quite happy with a lesser amount offered.

    There's always the potential for the person to tear up the house, but I think that doesn't happen quite as often as feared.

    As for attorney's fees, I've yet to pay those for an eviction. It's not that difficult of a process usually.

     Tenants don't generally intentionally destroy houses as often as people fear but in my experience former owners that have been foreclosed on are far more likely to remove fixtures from the property.  

    I guess attorney's fees depends on your state.  Here in Florida a business cannot represent itself in a legal case, so any of my properties that are in my business name must have an attorney handle eviction cases.  It's a pretty simple process and I've done it without issue on properties that were held in my personal name but unfortunately I'm not allowed to do it for the bulk of my purchases. I don't know what the laws are in PA but when dealing with a previous owner occupant rather than a tenant I'd rather defer to an attorney anyway.

    0Reply
  • Nicole A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y

    @Patrick L.

    Good to know! Is that for the entire state of FL regarding the fact that an entity can't represent themselves? Or just certain counties?

    Would representation count as using one of those companies that files for rent court and goes there for you?

    I'm curious because I may one day like to open up shop in FL and might as well start getting familiar with the rental laws.

    0Reply
  • Kevin N.
    OP
    Investor · philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 33 posts · 6 votes
    11y

    @Nichol W. and @Chris McDaniel

    I ended up paying the guy 3k to leave the house. Here in Philadelphia I can't represent myself for my LLC. It costs 2-3k just to get an attorney to start the eviction process, not included the time he will spend in court. It's extremely slow in Philadelphia court system. It takes average of 2-3 months just to get the guy to appear in court. it will cost more and drag out much longer if the squatter decided to fight. If you considered the lost rent, attorney fees and court fees. it's a minimum of 5K.

    1Reply
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