Anyone own a roller rink?

[Page Huyette]

My spouse and I have been bouncing this idea around for awhile. There's a local supermarket in town that is vacant--right smack near downtown, high school and the college.

Wondering what it might take to get it up and running as a roller rink. Without getting into the structural aspects of the building, I'd love insight from anyone who owns something like this. Let your imagination fly!

[Karen Margrave]

Page Huyette I'd have to say that's a new one! Definitely unique. Hopefully you'll find some help on here, as there's people that have all types of properties. Have you googled "developing a roller skating rink"? Years ago I was looking into doing an ice skating rink, and found all types of information. Good luck! Keep us posted!

[Ben Skove]

We're occasional roller rink visitors. I don't have experience on the other side of the counter, but in the same way that a movie theatre is a snack bar that happens to show movies, a skating rink is a snack bar and arcade that happens to also have skating. They definitely pull in multiple streams of income. They make full use of the space for birthday parties, games, etc.

Good luck! I'd love to hear how it goes.

[Page Huyette]

Karen Margrave yes, I didn't see any other posts on this one :)
There is a lot of info on the web, and I'm doing my prelim research. Will post updates.

[Robyn R.]

Ha ! There is any empty supermarket by us as well that I've thought would be perfect for the same thing. So even though I'm biased (since I think all my ideas are great!), I don't see why it wouldn't work if it was set up and run well.

[Karen Margrave]

Page Huyette and Robyn Roberts I'm sure you can find some information online that shows how to do the analysis, etc. I too am always thinking of different business ventures, other than real estate. I have a modern farm style 4500 sq. ft. house with 2100 sq. ft. guest house, large pool, seasonal pond on 20 acres in Redding. I've often considered a Country Inn with wedding venue, or a host of other things (craft weekends, fitness, small retreats, or ?) At Christmas we used to do elaborate decorating and had around 20,000 people that would come by. We had a live Santa that people could take pix with etc. I'm sure I could have done it for a business, with crafts, selling Xmas trees, baked goods, etc. But... we just did it for the fun of it and didn't charge.

I think women are much more creative on finding ways to use real estate to create income streams other than the obvious, but those are business ventures, not actually real estate investing. Mine idea in fact is more of a lifestyle business.

[Page Huyette]

The thought was to eventually purchase the building the rink would be housed in. Right now the biggest obstacle seems to be the high rents that large spaces like this command, but I'm still looking into it.

[Robyn R.]

Karen Margrave
I love your ideas for your property! Please invite me if you ever have a craft weekend! Yes, women do tend to be more creative minded. I see possibilities in almost everything, but it always comes back to the reality of whether I'd want to run whatever idea it is as an actual business. The empty supermarket by us would make a great roller ink or my other idea would be an indoor dog park (TX is HOT in the summer), but the reality is, that I wouldn't necessarily want to run either of those businesses. If I was filthy loaded and could just throw money to someone else to do the hard stuff, I probably would...but until the filthy loaded part happens, they are all just ideas. I know there's always the option to seek out investors for ideas, but it would have to be something I'm passionate about. Page Huyette, keep us posted, I love that I'm not the only one with this idea, it just means its a good one:-)

[Page Huyette]

Originally posted by Robyn Roberts:

Karen Margrave
it always comes back to the reality of whether I'd want to run whatever idea it is as an actual business.

Yes I know what you mean. Similar to managing your own rentals or having someone do it for you. We were considering a food truck and even had friends willingly offer investment money, but the thought of sitting in that truck all day killed the deal for me.

If we go for the rink, my spouse will be running it :) We have the opposite of your hot summers here, looooong white and cold winters, with not much to do for those that don't ski or hunt. Still researching....

[Eric K.]

You should try to visit a nearby rink and see how they are operating. Check out what people are buying, doing, how many people are working, etc. Look on the internet for other skating rinks to get some ideas of how to create revenue.

You might also be able to find a skating rink business that's currently available for sale (anywhere in the US) and see what business information you can take from it. Here's the first site on found from Google: http://www.skategroove.com/rinksale_0207.htm. You might be able to buy their inventory really cheap as well.

I went to a rink here and the kids loved it but the building seemed to have deferred maintenance issues. Same with the local amusement park. When I see that I'm wondering if there's just not enough cash at the end of the day to spend on stuff like that. And needless to say the number of them is getting smaller every year, not increasing, so that should tell you something. You're going to have to do something different.

With a large enough space you could include a rock climber, maybe some trampolines. Kids seem to love the trampoline centers. Think of it more as an entertainment center with roller skating instead of a roller skating rink.

[Steve Babiak]

There is a difference between a real estate investing business and operating a business within a piece of real estate ...

[Jon Klaus]

I've seen churches in old super market spaces.

[Page Huyette]

Originally posted by Eric Krust:

You might also be able to find a skating rink business that's currently available for sale (anywhere in the US) and see what business information you can take from it.

With a large enough space you could include a rock climber, maybe some trampolines. Kids seem to love the trampoline centers. Think of it more as an entertainment center with roller skating instead of a roller skating rink.

Some great thoughts Eric! No rinks closer than 2.5 hours to visit, being Montana and all. But I like your idea of visiting/observing others and researching ones for sale. Also looking into why there are less nowadays. Food for thought...

Jon Klaus there's already more or less a church on every corner in this town, so that market is pretty saturated :)

Steve Babiak I certainly agree about the difference, but innovation often comes from blurring lines, no?

I appreciate all of your responses, gut reactions and advice--thankyou!

[Steve Babiak]

Originally posted by Page Huyette:

... Also looking into why there are less nowadays. Food for thought...

Rollerblades vs older 4 wheel skates maybe?

[Troy Fisher]

.... Get a Roller Derby Team set up to use the rink! Or start up your own Roller Derby Team!

[Joe Hayden]

It's an interesting idea...

The two main rinks in our area have closed down most locations and I can only think of two locations still running.

One challenge is the change in culture that has altered the way young people interact and spend time. In my day, we were dropped off at the mall, the ball field or rode bikes around the neighborhood or park. Going to the skating rink on the weekends was a natural extension of these types of activities.

Missing in all of this was cell phones, iPads and X-boxes. Kids just don't seem to interact and socialize in the same manner as before. Maybe I am getting older and have become detached, but it is worth researching what draws in the youth in your area on a regular basis and then making a determination if your business adventure would fit into a necessary niche.

Any type of business venture such as this is going to be part fun, part entertainment, but also part babysitter. This means having to deal with challenges that parents sometimes would like to pass off onto others.

Best of luck in your research!!

[Page Huyette]

Eric Krust thanks for the link to rinks for sale--very helpful.
Going to look at a potential location this week.

[George C.]

I had this idea, too. Ever since looking for a skating rink to bring my kids to, the closest one was an hour away. Growing up there used to be a bunch with in a 30 minute drive, now they are all gone. The one I found had been built in 1978, it was an easy build, just an open steel framed building, the kind you hear advertised pretty cheap & a concrete floor, the rink area had a coating over the concrete, but not wood. It probably hadn't changed since the 70's but is pretty well packed on the weekends. They had the snack bar & arcade & kids parties as well. They had both inline & quad skates for rent. I'm guessing they had about eight people working the place, and of course they were teenagers. This is the kind of business where you don't have to be there most of the time, it should be easy enough to find a couple of older folks & teens to run it. With cheap internet wired security cameras, you can check on things anywhere & anytime.

I was just thinking that with facebook and such, kids would be doing a ton of your advertising for you. They'd be sending tweets out, posting videos, etc...

This kind of building I'd bet would be cheaper to build than to buy an existing building to convert. Renting would be hard, I would think you would have to prove the finances to do all the work and cover, insurance, float the business etc.. Then there is the thought some would have about liability to the LL beyond insurance with the injury risks to kids involved, rowdy behavior, etc..

The old ones that used to be in my area (NJ), I'm sure the land became more valuable than the rinks that occupied them. They were replaced with either condo developments or malls.

I think insurance would be pretty hefty.

If I had enough money to do it all the way, I'd probably take a shot at it.

Great minds think alike :)

[Roy N.]

Page Huyette:

I still like drive-in's ... but most folks under 40 have no idea what one is .. and I do not know if there is still an operational drive-in within 300 miles of here.

I would lump Roller-rinks and, to a lesser degree, bowling alleys into the same category of recreation that no longer have a wide appeal ... especially amongst the younger generations.

That does not mean a roller rink is a bad idea or that it will not have traction in Helena, Billings, or some smaller town in their vicinity. It just increases the case for solid diligence.

Roller Derby and, consequently 4-skates, have made pocket resurgences in specific locales (Montréal comes to mind).

[Mike M.]

Texas is not necessarily Montana, but there's been one for sale here for awhile. Something like $440K with some owner finance. I've seen pictures and no conversion necessary to make it a rink. I can dig up the listing if you're interested.

Mike

[Joel Owens]

What wealthy people talk about is owning businesses but NOT working in them. To do that you have to price in the structure WHEN you purchase.

I see many restaurants where the owner is selling and they claim profit of 40k a year. After reviewing the books the owner works there 5 days a week. To replace them I have to hire a manager at 30,000 and if food cost rises I am at breakeven.

I do not like renting a space because the lease at some point will start rising creating a reverse mortgage affect in that your costs keep going up but your sales and profit may not be able to rise at the same pace due to market conditions outside of your control.

At least when you have a mortgage you can take tax deduction for owning the building the land is on plus you are getting principal paydown and hopefully appreciation and cash flow.

So from the get go a seller says the value is XX and I say the value is YY because when I buy it this is how it will be operated. If no agreement then there is no purchase.

There is a rink here close to me that I use to go to when I was a kid. The roller rink changed to a skate board type park and had a half pipe outside etc. It closed down about 8 months ago and is sitting vacant. If I could pick it up for a song from the bank I might look at it but not if they want full value. Any of those types of oddball properties you have to get really cheap as they are harder on the resell to move.

If the land I valuable and I could sell off to a corporate company for a tear down and rebuild then I could pay more. If the use because of where it is located is going to stay that way then it has to be cheap. Businesses all the time say what their gross sales are to try and impress buyers. They also mentioned all the new stuff they bought. None of that means anything but what is the net profit after expenses and how is it trending??

I do not like for suffering businesses because they take a ton of time and are very hard to turn around. I look for profitable businesses where there is a partner split, health issues, relocation issues, owner has other businesses needing their attention with more risk of loss, divorce, inherited businesses where the children want to liquidate and not run it etc. With all of these types the business is doing well but may just need some refreshing but has decades of loyal customers to draw from. Those are the type of businesses that appeal to me and not ones that opened 4 years ago and sales were great but now sales are down and they have a very high lease payment with the landlord they can't get out of.

The problem with leasing is that over the years just as the rent options kick in you now are having to inject capital in the business to update technology and the new look to keep business coming in. At least with a mortgage if the business takes a dive you can recoup value in the building and the land. A business that is breaking even has only parts a liquidation value regardless of what the seller is trying to tell me.

[Raymond B.]

Page Huyette,
In the City I live in, An On Track Karting (Indoor Kart Racing) has been in Business since 2006.

Here is a link: http://www.ontrackkarting.com/arrive-drive/

I do NOT work for, or affiliated with the Business in any way.

Raymond