Seller's Agent Demanding I Stop Speaking w/Seller

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Seller's Agent Demanding I Stop Speaking w/Seller

Brenden MitchumBusiness Member
Rental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 872 votes

Hey everyone,

So I am under contract on this deal without a buyer's agent. I found the deal through the MLS and got out there quick to check it out. My first point of contact was the seller's agent but when I went out there the seller walked me through the house and gave me his number after. So I started working directly with the buyer to negotiate a deal. The agent quickly shut this down and told me I needed to do all negotiations through her. So I did and we got it under contract.

Since then, I have spoken with the seller a ton because the agent is very busy and can hardly move fast enough for me to get all my DD done. The seller and I have built a solid relationship so we chat a lot about the house and the deal. She has now contacted me again telling me to discontinue any form of communication with the seller. Am I doing something wrong here? Is it illegal for me to contact the seller directly? And if not, how do I respond to this?

Any thoughts/advice are greatly appreciated! 

[email protected]404-737-0018
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Charlie MacPherson
China, ME · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
6y

@Brenden Mitchum  I can fill you in on the Realtor's point of view.  He's not afraid that you'll strike up a side deal cutting him out.  In all likelihood, he has an "Exclusive Right to Sell" contract with the seller, so he gets paid no matter what.

What he's probably worried about is that his seller isn't a trained negotiator and will say or do something to either screw up the deal or to give you ammunition to come back looking for a big discount.

In other words, he's trying to protect the seller - to whom he's a fiduciary.  That means that he's doing his job.

The best course of action is for him to have the same conversation with his seller that I have with mine.  "If anybody wants to discuss anything having to do with the sale, please tell them that they need to talk with me.  That way, we keep you from saying something that could come back to hurt you.  OK?"

If the seller chooses to ignore that advice, there's not much the Realtor can do, except to reiterate it. 

And no, it's not illegal for you to continue talking directly with the seller.  You're not under any contractual obligation with the seller's agent.

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  • Caleb Heimsoth
    Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    @Brenden Mitchum I don’t think it’s illegal but the sellers agent needs to talk to the seller about this, not you. The seller is making it worse by continuing to talk to you.

    Things will almost always be faster direct to seller (less middlemen) but common decorum is communicate through the agent. Things (in general) are less likely to fall apart if agents are involved, assuming this is a normal owner occupied deal.

    6Reply
  • Eric Mayer
    Rental Property Investor · Clearwater & Daytona Beach, FL · Member since 2019 · 194 posts · 197 votes
    6y

    The agent doesn’t want anything said that might throw off the deal. I would push back some though as that’s just my personality when someone is rude to me. That should have been handled a little differently by the agent IMO.

    4Reply
  • Brenden MitchumBusiness Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 872 votes
    6y

    Thank you @Caleb Heimsoth! This is similar to what I was thinking. I do understand that she's the professional and in her eyes I'm just some kid going over her head. But I just wanted to make sure I am not in the wrong by speaking with him directly. If she was more readily available I'd be happy to go through her but that's not the case. In fact, I have not even met her in person yet. I guess I am just unsure how to proceed because there is still quite a bit to negotiate and I'm confident it won't work out if I stop speaking with the seller. 

    [email protected]404-737-0018
    0Reply
  • Caleb Heimsoth
    Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Brenden Mitchum:

    Thank you @Caleb Heimsoth! This is similar to what I was thinking. I do understand that she's the professional and in her eyes I'm just some kid going over her head. But I just wanted to make sure I am not in the wrong by speaking with him directly. If she was more readily available I'd be happy to go through her but that's not the case. In fact, I have not even met her in person yet. I guess I am just unsure how to proceed because there is still quite a bit to negotiate and I'm confident it won't work out if I stop speaking with the seller. 

    You should also get a buyers agent.  Then you don’t have to constantly deal with trying to get a hold of the seller agent 

    0Reply
  • Brenden MitchumBusiness Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 872 votes
    6y

    @Eric Mayer That's ironic because the only reason the deal is still chugging along is because of the seller and I working together. She did push back against him accepting the initial offer so perhaps she is afraid we will work out a deal? Regardless, I am certainly stuck between a rock and a hard place here. I don't want to piss off the agent but I also do not plan on discontinuing my dialog with the seller (as long as this is not illegal).  

    [email protected]404-737-0018
    2Reply
  • Brenden MitchumBusiness Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 872 votes
    6y

    @Caleb Heimsoth I do agree that I need to find a solid agent. In fact, the only reason I am doing this deal without one is that my agent would have been much too slow to make this deal happen. That being said, I disagree (respectfully) with the second part of your statement. Having a buyer's agent would not make this seller's agent any less busy or any more available; it would simply add another middleman/woman. This deal would have never happened if I had not personally gone out and made a connection and built a relationship with the seller.

    [email protected]404-737-0018
    8Reply
  • Eric Mayer
    Rental Property Investor · Clearwater & Daytona Beach, FL · Member since 2019 · 194 posts · 197 votes
    6y

    @Brenden Mitchum I totally believe you and prefer an agent that lets me talk to the seller. I just got an 8 unit that we all negotiated on a conference call and they had no issues with the seller and I continuing to communicate after that. Too funny that you are going to keep dealing with the buyer! Please keep us updated on the next Realtor meltdown.

    0Reply
  • Frank Jiang
    Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 592 posts · 765 votes
    6y

    Call them out on their slow response time.

    The agent is concerned that this deal will be killed by some sort of back end agreement that doesn't get properly notarized.  Or worse, for the deal to go through with the paperwork failing to document some sort of material agreement made between you and the seller without her knowledge and for one of you to seek recourse against her in the future.

    I would note that she has been slow, state that you understand her concerns about the above, CC her on further communication, but firmly state that unless she can remedy her slow response and give your deal the love it deserves, you will continue to speak directly with the seller to move the deal forward.

    12Reply
  • Charlie MacPherson
    China, ME · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    @Brenden Mitchum  I can fill you in on the Realtor's point of view.  He's not afraid that you'll strike up a side deal cutting him out.  In all likelihood, he has an "Exclusive Right to Sell" contract with the seller, so he gets paid no matter what.

    What he's probably worried about is that his seller isn't a trained negotiator and will say or do something to either screw up the deal or to give you ammunition to come back looking for a big discount.

    In other words, he's trying to protect the seller - to whom he's a fiduciary.  That means that he's doing his job.

    The best course of action is for him to have the same conversation with his seller that I have with mine.  "If anybody wants to discuss anything having to do with the sale, please tell them that they need to talk with me.  That way, we keep you from saying something that could come back to hurt you.  OK?"

    If the seller chooses to ignore that advice, there's not much the Realtor can do, except to reiterate it. 

    And no, it's not illegal for you to continue talking directly with the seller.  You're not under any contractual obligation with the seller's agent.

    15Reply
  • Brenden MitchumBusiness Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 872 votes
    6y

    @Frank Jiang That is excellent advice! Thank you! I see now that her reasoning is probably a combination of what you have said and what @Charlie MacPherson has said. So thank you, too, Charlie. The only trouble with your advice, Frank, is that none of our communication is occurring via email so there is no way to cc the agent. I do frequently tell the seller to check with his agent and would never attempt to fool the seller into making a decision without first discussing with her. 

    All this information and advice has been incredibly helpful. It has made me able to better understand the agent's point of view and allowed me to come up with a good (I hope) way to handle the situation. I will give the agent a call tomorrow morning and inform her of what is being discussed between the seller and I. Part of what we have been discussing is getting together to get some leaks in the roof fixed so that it will pass appraisal. He is going to supply the materials and I'll help him fix it. I'll inform the agent of this and do a better job from now on keeping her in the loop. However, as long as the seller wants to communicate with me I will reciprocate, but that is his call. I will tell her this but also say that with anything involving negotiation I will go through her first.

    I hope this is a fair response. Please let me know if any of you disagree or have anything to add to this.

    Thanks again, everyone!

    [email protected]404-737-0018
    2Reply
  • Caleb Heimsoth
    Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    @Brenden Mitchum you seem to believe time is of the essence. Is there a reason for that? Does the seller need a fast close or is it a smokin deal? I said a good buyers agent will help hold things together because a lot of times they can have relationships with other agents (maybe the sellers agent) or other professionals you may need to keep the deal together.

    The biggest reason you need a buyers agent is because you’re probably paying more than you need to because no one is looking out for your interests. Just my take on this. I’ve done unrepresented deals before but the seller also had no agent.

    0Reply
  • Brenden MitchumBusiness Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 872 votes
    6y

    @Caleb Heimsoth It does appear that the seller really needs this deal to close on time. But the reason I need stuff to happen quickly is that the property is fairly complex, lots of moving parts. So I just want to make sure everything gets done by the end of the DD period.

    I do agree with you, I need an agent that will look after my best interests. Unfortunately, the one I had previously was only interested in closing the deal. She repeatedly told me that I should pay more to make the deal close. She was not concerned with the numbers me getting the best deal possible. She was clearly not experienced working with investors so I'll continue my search for one who is.

    [email protected]404-737-0018
    0Reply
  • Lydia S.
    Real Estate Agent · Albuquerque, NM · Member since 2015 · 542 posts · 193 votes
    6y

    @Brenden Mitchum

    I would suggest that you reiterate your conversations with the seller via email, cc’ing the listing agent so everything is known to all parties and in writing.  

    The realtor should be aware of all conversations and may need to put something in an amendment to the contract if you and the seller are making agreements about something which really needs to be contractual.


    Consider what will happen if these verbal negotiations about the roof, etc. suddenly become a ‘he said, she said’ situation and good graces vanish between you and the seller.

    0Reply
  • Mindy JensenPro Member
    BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    6y

    @Brenden Mitchum, I agree with the person who said Call her out on her slow response time. 

    @Charlie MacPherson is right, she is a fiduciary to the seller and is trying to protect his interests. However, she needs to be way more on top of things if the entire reason you're circumventing her is slow response.

    [email protected]Podcast Guest on Show #261
    BiggerPockets
    3Reply
  • Jill F.
    Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    @Brenden Mitchum You do not have a relationship with this agent. This situation is just like dealing with your spouses EX... The response to the seller's agent should be, "You are talking to the WRONG person"

    Though I do think if the seller tells you he's going to route you through the agent and wants to quit communicating, you need to talk with him about his agent's lack of responsiveness.

    Personally, I have found a lot of value in having an agent that represents me and is a great negotiator. Those 'pocket' deals that you might miss from an unethical seller's agent that puts his own interest above that of his clients interest are not worth forgoing a  relationship with a good agent for the buyer.

    0Reply
  • Brenden MitchumBusiness Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 872 votes
    6y

    @Lydia S. That is fantastic advice. I will from now on keep the agent more in the loop. And I could not agree more that whatever "agreements" we make in person should be legitimized by amending the original agreement. In fact, I have just spoken with the agent (who was not available to speak with me all morning and was only available to speak with me for 10 mins). I let her know what my new offer is based on events and conversations between the seller and I. I have pulled her back into the loop by asking her to relay this to the seller. 

    [email protected]404-737-0018
    1Reply
  • Brenden MitchumBusiness Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 872 votes
    6y

    Thank you, @Mindy Jensen! It's nice to know that I am not crazy in thinking she needs to be more available to the buyer of a house she has under contract. Going forward, I will be sure that she knows that her unavailability is not acceptable (obviously through polite conversation, not being rude to her). And that if she is not able to maintain a reasonable line of contact between the seller and myself, I will continue to circumnavigate her.

    [email protected]404-737-0018
    1Reply
  • Brenden MitchumBusiness Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 872 votes
    6y

    I completely agree, @Jill F. If the seller told me he did not want to speak to me directly, I would respect this and only go through his agent. However, this is quite the opposite case. That being said, you response, like others, has made me realize that I really need to find myself a solid buyer's agent. That is now at the top of my list (right under closing this deal).

    [email protected]404-737-0018
    0Reply
  • Rose WhitePro Member
    Real Estate Agent · Woodstock, GA · Member since 2019 · 72 posts · 43 votes
    6y

    @Brenden Mitchum hi fellow Atlantan!

    i maybe late to the party but maybe due to the contract between the seller and agent thats creating an issue for you talking direct with the seller?

    And also what everyone else have said.. but the buyer’s agent doesnt cost anything for you, so it could have potentially elevated the situation if you had one (unless the BA communication time was slow too)

    Anyways hope it went well !

    1Reply
  • Brenden MitchumBusiness Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 872 votes
    6y

    Hi @Rose White! You're absolutely correct. I could definitely use a solid buyer's agent. 

    [email protected]404-737-0018
    0Reply
  • Jonathan R McLaughlin
    Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Remind them politely that they work for the seller, not the other way around and this conversation needs to be had with the seller. Say you of course can cut off contact if he [the seller] asks you to but that hasn't happened. Remind them you and the seller are only trying to drive the deal forward and that slow response time has been frustrating. If on email cc them both. Call them after you talk with the seller and let them know what you said. 

    Realtors occassionally adopt a " this deal would go better without my client, dammit" attitude. They are usually right but it is not their place to show it.

    0Reply
  • Mike CumbieBusiness Member
    REALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    @Brenden Mitchum

    "I let her know what my new offer is based on events and conversations between the seller and I"

    Which is exactly why she wanted you to go to her. Sounds like you two are having a whole lot of conversations, which for the seller is never a good thing. Why? because the more they talk to the buyer the lower the price keeps going. It is going to continue to go down as you "keep finding things out that he tells you about". I have not been involved in a deal (especially still in the DD period) where a conversation "must be had before noon and has to last much more than 10 minutes". Also nothing matters that is not on paper. I don't know if you are in a lawyer state, but here you two would verbally agree to a whole lot of things and it doesn't mean anything. Once the lawyers get involved and they start discussing liability. "What do you mean you are letting someone on your roof who is not licensed and insured"? It is always "making things happen" until it isn't.

    I also have had clients who are "non confrontational" say "Please ask him to stop calling me and just stopping over, he drives by 4 times a day. I would say something but I don't want to get him mad and lose the deal". Not saying that's the case, but you never know. 

    Good luck on the deal!

    3Reply
  • Steve B.
    Engineer · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Brenden Mitchum obviously you don’t want to involve a buyers agent at this point, I assume you can figure out why.

    Of course the sellers agent want to intercede in this situation to protect her interests. Her interests are not absolutely aligned with your interests, and understanding where they differ will help you navigate the situation.

    She has no basis to pursue legal action for anything, that’s an idle threat .

    0Reply
  • Brenden MitchumBusiness Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 872 votes
    6y

    @Mike Cumbie Thank you for the input. It's good to see from a broker's point of view why she would not want me to speak with him. The deal did not end up working out so perhaps that was due to us not including the agent (or because he thinks the house is worth much more than it is). Moving forward I will be sure to better include the agent. However, I think being able to get a feel for what motivates the seller is very important and helps to formulate a deal in which both sides win. So I strongly believe there is a happy medium here.

    [email protected]404-737-0018
    1Reply
  • Brenden MitchumBusiness Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 872 votes
    6y

    Oh yeah @Steve B. I definitely was not planning on getting an agent for this deal. I was just saying for future deals it would be good to have one (or I may just go get my license).

    But yes, I think I had a pretty good grasp on her interests from the start and they certainly did not align with mine. It was clear that she was more worried about selling the house for the maximum amount possible, regardless of how long it remained on the market. Meanwhile, the seller was clearly more worried about getting rid of it quick. I think they are not on the same page, but that isn't something I can do much about, right?

    [email protected]404-737-0018
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