The shadiest buyer and attorney in Miami

The shadiest buyer and attorney in Miami

Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes

I had a person randomly contact me and ask to buy a property I own.

I agreed on a low price because he promised a swift and easy transaction.

After going under contract, it’s turned into a 6 month+ saga, with the buyer trying to pull out every trick he can to drive the price down.

His approach has mostly revolved around trying to find some problem with the property to knock of 50% of the value.

I have held my stead and not given into any of his manoeuvres.

It also became apparent early on that the buyer and his attorney are two peas in a pod. His attorney is like a cat burglar who presents himself in a suit and tie.

I thought we were finally at the finishing line and was so relieved to never have to deal with these two men again.

Low and behold I received a long winded email from the buyers attorney stating his underwriter has discovered I don’t actually own the land. The buyer still wants to buy the property but of course at a deeply discounted price.

I contacted the attorney I used to purchased the property and forwarded them the email I was sent from the buyers attorney.

The response I received was that they thoroughly disagreed with the claims being made and ironically had recently dealt with this attorney and his buyer.

They stated:

“Our office has had recent experience with these principals and we believe they may taking a position here that is without a factual or legal basis in order to obtain leverage in your transaction, which they unsuccessfully tried to do in our office's recent transaction with them using long winded emails just like the one below.“

They buyer will not let up on this issue and I would like to tell them that they are now way past the closing date, so I am cancelling the sale.

I understand no one on here can give me legal advice but any general advice would be appreciated.

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
6y

Just terminate and return their EM and be done with if  your past your contractual close date.

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  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    6y

    Wow. So many wrong turns here it's hard to know where to start.

    1. You agreed to sell a property that wasn't for sale to a random, unknown buyer.

    2. You perhaps don't own the land? 

    3. You let this continue past the closing date.

    You already have an attorney, it sounds like. I think you need to just let them handle it. What advice could anyone here give you that would be better than that of an attorney? You can simply refuse to close on the property, in which case they may sue you. Or you can close on the property at a discounted rate. What other choice is there? 

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y

    Just terminate and return their EM and be done with if  your past your contractual close date.

  • Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    Just terminate and return their EM and be done with if  your past your contractual close date.

     Correct, my thoughts exactly 

  • Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    6y

    I agree with Jay. Refund EMD and rid youself of the problem.

  • Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2017 · 319 posts · 330 votes
    6y

    If you back out now, the "buyer" will be stuck with however many hours of legal bills.. which sounds like a pretty fitting outcome. 

    I would ask your lawyer one last question - am I safe to walk? Do I have to give back their deposit after all this? (ok.. two questions) 

    Since you must be way past any agreed closing time, I'm guessing you're free to do whatever you want by now. 

    Then, I'd tell em the price isn't changing, and you're terminating the contact in 3 days (or however long makes sense there), if the deal isn't closed by then.

  • Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @John Thedford:

    I agree with Jay. Refund EMD and rid youself of the problem.

     Yep!

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Nat C.:
    Originally posted by @John Thedford:

    I agree with Jay. Refund EMD and rid youself of the problem.

     Yep!

    Only way I nurse a deal like that along is if the buyer is paying way to much :)

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    6y

    @Nat C. I suspect I know some of your buyer’s associates. Dave Dunker runs a large meetup and coaching program in Miami. Some of his “students” have given presentations on how to do this....”once the seller signs the contract, they think it is settled....little do they know they are in for a hell of a ride...”.  They all use one particular “home inspector” whose job is to come up with exaggerated repair estimates to beat the price down another $20k -$40k, plus a lot of other tactics. The “title search says you don’t own the land” is s new one...maybe it works on ignorant sellers, which I know you are not. 

    When you got your contract, by chance, was the EM handled as “a letter from an attorney/title company saying the buyer had a $1k deposit on file with them for this property”?  That’s usually part of their SOP. 

  • Rental Property Investor · NC, IL · Member since 2018 · 86 posts · 47 votes
    6y

    @Nat C. I agree you should ask your attorney how to walk away. I would be interested to see how this turns out. I hope you can walk away and these people never contact you again. 

    I am always suspect of people who randomly contact me. 

    Good Luck!

  • Real Estate Appraiser · Isabella lake, CA · Member since 2018 · 628 posts · 491 votes
    6y

    I don't think it was random. They were looking for a target.

    Cancel and never speak to them again.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Wayne Brooks:

    @Nat C. I suspect I know some of your buyer’s associates. Dave Dunker runs a large meetup and coaching program in Miami. Some of his “students” have given presentations on how to do this....”once the seller signs the contract, they think it is settled....little do they know they are in for a hell of a ride...”.  They all use one particular “home inspector” whose job is to come up with exaggerated repair estimates to beat the price down another $20k -$40k, plus a lot of other tactics. The “title search says you don’t own the land” is s new one...maybe it works on ignorant sellers, which I know you are not. 

    When you got your contract, by chance, was the EM handled as “a letter from an attorney/title company saying the buyer had a $1k deposit on file with them for this property”?  That’s usually part of their SOP. 

    Wayne,  when I first came to Oregon in the early 90s.. it was SOP to just put up promissory notes for EM.. I mean talk about no skin in the game. it was accepted practice here.. but that went away about a decade ago.. and you still get folks trying to give you 1k on a 500k deal LOL

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    6y

    Didn't read all of this. You can have a (right to continued marketing clause) so your property isn't tied up with a buyer playing games. This way another buyer comes along they have the choice to match the similar or better offer otherwise they lose the chance to buy the property.

    Additionally have earnest money held by an independent party with the transaction and have built in escalators for more and more non-refundable money each time they go to extend the contract. Buyers are often full of bull. If there is a really valid reason they are extending then generally a buyer will pay the non-refundable money to extend the contract. If they are just stalling and not the confident you will find out when they have to put up money to extend the contract.

    No legal advice given.

  • Real Estate Broker · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2018 · 196 posts · 191 votes
    6y

    @Nat Chan i would follow your lead. Someone else will buy it if they won’t.

  • Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Wayne Brooks:

    @Nat C. I suspect I know some of your buyer’s associates. Dave Dunker runs a large meetup and coaching program in Miami. Some of his “students” have given presentations on how to do this....”once the seller signs the contract, they think it is settled....little do they know they are in for a hell of a ride...”.  They all use one particular “home inspector” whose job is to come up with exaggerated repair estimates to beat the price down another $20k -$40k, plus a lot of other tactics. The “title search says you don’t own the land” is s new one...maybe it works on ignorant sellers, which I know you are not. 

    When you got your contract, by chance, was the EM handled as “a letter from an attorney/title company saying the buyer had a $1k deposit on file with them for this property”?  That’s usually part of their SOP. 

    Wow, that is crazy Wayne! I can’t believe people are running coaching sessions teaching such unethical practices. Of course we all want to buy at the lowest dollar amount but I’d prefer to keep my honor intact.

    I can't even remember the details of the EMD. I've been in 10+ countries since I signed the sales contract. I'll have to review it.

  • Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Joel Owens:

    Didn't read all of this. You can have a (right to continued marketing clause) so your property isn't tied up with a buyer playing games. This way another buyer comes along they have the choice to match the similar or better offer otherwise they lose the chance to buy the property.

    Additionally have earnest money held by an independent party with the transaction and have built in escalators for more and more non-refundable money each time they go to extend the contract. Buyers are often full of bull. If there is a really valid reason they are extending then generally a buyer will pay the non-refundable money to extend the contract. If they are just stalling and not the confident you will find out when they have to put up money to extend the contract.

    No legal advice given.

    All very good advice there Joel. I will take this on board for next time.

    At least I’ll be wiser after this experience.

  • Rental Property Investor · New York City · Member since 2019 · 703 posts · 538 votes
    6y

    Stay with your attorney and return whatever deposits to the liar buyer. This no go deal actually cost you money because you have to pay your attorney. 

  • Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    Once someone has slithered into the guru-ing space of real estate it's pretty safe to say they've left whatever ethics they had behind them. I'm not surprised at all these tactics are being taught. I do feel bad for the less educated sellers that are going to get put through this meat grinder. 

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