BRRRR turns into GRRRR, having a hard time refi-ing

BRRRR turns into GRRRR, having a hard time refi-ing

Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 108 posts · 43 votes

I purchased 2 distressed duplexes next door to each other in the Seattle Tacoma area, initially with the intent of fixing and flipping them. I already had a BRRRR duplex that I purchased a few months prior and was being rehabbed. Turns out I underestimated the rents on these 2 new ones when I got them fixed up and rented, and so would like to keep them as they will cashflow nicely. The problem is that I'm running into issues with the refi process due to my debt to income ratio.

I have a W2 job that pays well, but I also own a business which had some pretty steep losses in 2015 which flowed through to my personal tax return, and smaller losses in 2016.  The first duplex I purchased is still another 6-8 weeks out from completion, and so I have no rental income on that property at this point, but am paying a hard money loan on.  

I've looked at a commercial mortgage, but the loan amount wouldn't be high enough for me to get most of my capital back out.  

I realize there are a lot of details that go into the mortgage decision process for the lender that I couldn't include in here, but just looking for some general/creative ideas of ways that things  could be structured with a lender to make something like this work.

tia,

-Rob

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Flipper · Seattle, WA · Member since 2017 · 13 posts · 4 votes
9y

Rob 

Send me and PM and I will Send you some contact info that will lend long term with all the hassles going with conventional loans.

Matt

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  • Flipper · Seattle, WA · Member since 2017 · 13 posts · 4 votes
    9y

    Rob 

    Send me and PM and I will Send you some contact info that will lend long term with all the hassles going with conventional loans.

    Matt

  • Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 108 posts · 43 votes
    9y

    Thanks @Matt Mcguirk, just sent you a colleague request / PM.

  • Loan Officer / Processor / Life & Health Agent · Rancho Cucamonga, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 757 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Rob Terpilowski:

    I purchased 2 distressed duplexes next door to each other in the Seattle Tacoma area, initially with the intent of fixing and flipping them. I already had a BRRRR duplex that I purchased a few months prior and was being rehabbed. Turns out I underestimated the rents on these 2 new ones when I got them fixed up and rented, and so would like to keep them as they will cashflow nicely. The problem is that I'm running into issues with the refi process due to my debt to income ratio.

    I have a W2 job that pays well, but I also own a business which had some pretty steep losses in 2015 which flowed through to my personal tax return, and smaller losses in 2016.  The first duplex I purchased is still another 6-8 weeks out from completion, and so I have no rental income on that property at this point, but am paying a hard money loan on.  

    I've looked at a commercial mortgage, but the loan amount wouldn't be high enough for me to get most of my capital back out.  

    I realize there are a lot of details that go into the mortgage decision process for the lender that I couldn't include in here, but just looking for some general/creative ideas of ways that things  could be structured with a lender to make something like this work.

    tia,

    -Rob

     I'm sorry to hear that you're having a hard time.  I don't lend in the state of Washington but PM me so that I can guide you through the process.  BP i'm not advertising just trying to help out a fellow BP'er!

  • Property Manager · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2010 · 71 posts · 35 votes
    9y

    YOu might want to check into Sub-Prime lenders that are out there in bigger numbers all the time. THey are institutional i.e. private banks and generally really solid. rates are between hard money and conventional but they are a good option when in a spot such as yours.Try doing a general search in Scotsmans Guide.  Be aware you will not get most of your capital out, it will be a refi with Some cash out,

  • Walnut Creek, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    Portfolio lenders might be able to help. I have a lender that's investor friendly and can lend in all states. No idea if he'd be able to help... But message me for his contact info if you want 

  • Lender · Everett, WA · Member since 2017 · 104 posts · 59 votes
    9y

    @Rob Terpilowski Starting with the business, how is 2017 going? If 2015 was worse and 2016 got better is 2017 better than 2016? If you can provide your current P&L some lenders will be able to get an exception and average your P&L in with 2015/2016 to decrease the business loss.

    If it is just a small amount of income you need, you could always get a rent schedule with your appraisal. That way you can use 75% of the fair market rent on your units, it will cost you a little more than a standard appraisal but will help improve your DTI ratio. If you need 100% of the rents, most guidelines won't let us use the full income on new properties until you have a 1yr lease signed and they have paid their first months rent to you.

    Last resort, any family or business partners that will co-sign for you?

  • Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 108 posts · 43 votes
    9y

    @Julian Sibley  Yes, 2016 was better and 2017 is better than last year, so will talk w/ the lender about including the P/L from this year as well.  Thanks for the suggestion on the rent schedule w/ appraisal, I'll bring up that point as well.

    As a fall-back I have found an asset based lender with rates that would work, thanks @Matt Mcguirk.  Rates are obviously higher than conventional 30-year fixed, so will still try to go conventional if possible.  I'm currently waiting on my CPA to complete my 2016 taxes, probably in about 2 weeks , and then I'll have a better idea.

  • Investor · McKinney, TX · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 26 votes
    9y
    Rob, check out LendingOne. I've used them before and they were excellent in every way. They don't check DTI, so don't worry about that. Of course the details of the deal need to look good and having nice cash flow is definitely one of them.
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